2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[MrGoat]

There were reasonable routes to sign Collins and Markkanen. Neither the Bulls or Hawks wanted to-resign these players, so if you pushed the envelope, you could have gotten them. We had the outright capspace to sign Markkanen away from the Bulls. We were one trade away from offering Collins the max, which we know the Hawks would very likely not have matched. Or worked out a S&T. Mavs simply preferred to retain THJ over these players.

If you are so fixated on the idea of only getting two way players, why are we re-signing Brunson anyway? He´s not a two-way player by your seemingly ridiculous standards.....and neither is Wood.

Of course the idea that White could be better than Brunson in three years is crazy to you, just like the idea that Brunson could be better than Lowry was crazy to you all 12 months ago or the idea that Brunson could be better than Oladipo three years ago. It´s called forward projection. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn´t. Facts are it took Brunson till age 25 to have a better NBA season than White, who is three years younger.

Also I bet a lot that if we lose Brunson, Cuban will do a face-saving trade and Irving is simply the best candidate for it. Wall and Westbrook don´t get you the positive press, he´ll be craving. So it´s either Lavine or Irving. Lavine is likely too expensive and the Nets are much more likely to accept a package around Dinwiddie + Kleber to get rid of that nutjob.

I'd rather do Harris. Big wing, can shoot, maybe Kidd could make him work on defense, actually tries to earn his contract. Kyrie might be more attainable though

[Kammrath]

RE: Rick Brunson's Claims

1) April 25 the story breaks where Rick Brunson claims he went to the Mavs in January and asked them to extend JB.

2) June 2 the news leaks that Rick Brunson has been hired by NYK who has been known to want JB. 

Rick Brunson has a vested interest in turning the Mavs into the bad guy and turning his son against them. 

Rick Brunson goes to MacMahon with a story about the Mavs not treating his son properly in contract negotiations and then less than 6 weeks later is hired by the team that has been aiming to sign his son.

On April 25 when he ran to the media, Rick Brunson had no idea he was going to be hired by NYK (whose season was already over for two weeks)?


Do your own math and connect the dots for yourself.

And maybe Rick Brunson was not trying to turn his son against the Mavs. Maybe Rick Brunson was doing narrative control work on behalf of his son who was preparing himself for an exit. 

Regardless of the truth and reasoning behind it, going to the media TWO DAYS after Luka returns to the UTA series and six weeks before taking the NYK job to spill dirt on how the Mavs do not value his son is very, very, very suspicious timing. No way it is an accident. Rick Brunson spoke with purpose when speaking to MacMahon and knew he was on the record.

[mvossman]

There were reasonable routes to sign Collins and Markkanen. Neither the Bulls or Hawks wanted to-resign these players, so if you pushed the envelope, you could have gotten them. We had the outright capspace to sign Markkanen away from the Bulls. We were one trade away from offering Collins the max, which we know the Hawks would very likely not have matched. Or worked out a S&T. Mavs simply preferred to retain THJ over these players.

If you are so fixated on the idea of only getting two way players, why are we re-signing Brunson anyway? He´s not a two-way player by your seemingly ridiculous standards.....and neither is Wood.

Of course the idea that White could be better than Brunson in three years is crazy to you, just like the idea that Brunson could be better than Lowry was crazy to you all 12 months ago or the idea that Brunson could be better than Oladipo three years ago. It´s called forward projection. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn´t. Facts are it took Brunson till age 25 to have a better NBA season than White, who is three years younger.

Also I bet a lot that if we lose Brunson, Cuban will do a face-saving trade and Irving is simply the best candidate for it. Wall and Westbrook don´t get you the positive press, he´ll be craving. So it´s either Lavine or Irving. Lavine is likely too expensive and the Nets are much more likely to accept a package around Dinwiddie + Kleber to get rid of that nutjob.

Markkanen was not worth the risk/expense of going after, and Collins at max would have been an overpay and a good chance they match from an asset perspective and leave us totally screwed.  The restricted road is messy at best and not one to count on.

Why am I fixated on signing Brunson?  Because its by far the best option from an asset perspective.  You know that.  The Nicks have cleared most of the space they need already.  We are not getting anything of value in a convoluted S&T.

The idea of White being better than Brunson is crazy to me because he is so bad defensively he will need to be Lavine level offensively to be better than Brunson.  And a player making a Brunson level jump is rare.  Coby would need to do it more than once to be better than Brunson.  

I would be more than willing to do a sig bet regarding the Mavs getting Irving.  Its not going to happen.

[Fuerza1]

For a team that made such strides on defense our offense was actually better the year before when THJ was frequently the second option. Brunson is expendable but I think we've missed the boat on cashing in on him in a trade.

But THJ second option led to two 1st round exits. Without Brunson in last year's playoffs, the Mavs go down 0-3 before Luka returns from injury, and likely get eliminated in the 1st round, again.

Brunson as the #2 got them to the WCF, that's a fact. 22 ppg in the playoffs has only been done by Aguirre, Blackman, Finley, Dirk, Luka, and BRUNSON in Mavs history. The former 5 are all multi-time all stars. 

I kept hearing how a Brunson + Luka backcourt would be the worst defensive pairing in the NBA yet the Mavs were ELITE on that end. How is that possible? 

If you think Brunson isn't a #2, that's fine. But to call him expendable while the Mavs have no cap space for several years, that's simply puzzling.

[StepBackJay]

*Knicks have cleared most of the space they need already.  We are not getting anything of value in a convoluted S&T.

We might get like a player that is okay (eg Reddish or Burks) so that Knicks could keep MLE but its not like they are going to send us 10 picks or anything.

I suspect Knicks will line up the trade they need for the last bit of space but not execute it until after JB commits (*if he commits*).

After that it would be easy to negotiate with Mavs on a 3-way. Mavs inclusion in the deal for the Knicks is allowing them to keep their MLE which is nice but not something they are going to pay too much for.

[MrGoat]

But THJ second option led to two 1st round exits. Without Brunson in last year's playoffs, the Mavs go down 0-3 before Luka returns from injury, and likely get eliminated in the 1st round, again.

Brunson as the #2 got them to the WCF, that's a fact. 22 ppg in the playoffs has only been done by Aguirre, Blackman, Finley, Dirk, Luka, and BRUNSON in Mavs history. The former 5 are all multi-time all stars. 

I kept hearing how a Brunson + Luka backcourt would be the worst defensive pairing in the NBA yet the Mavs were ELITE on that end. How is that possible? 

If you think Brunson isn't a #2, that's fine. But to call him expendable while the Mavs have no cap space for several years, that's simply puzzling.

He's expendable as a trade piece, and the first guy I would be looking to trade. Losing him for nothing wouldn't be great, I'm not saying that. Although the circumstances of drawing a Utah team with no perimeter defense at all and CP3 completely breaking down at the right time had more to do with us making the WCF than anything. Between THJ, Wood, and SD we have plenty to replace the missing scoring. Losing Brunson as a trade asset makes it a lot harder to bring in that second star though is where it really hurts.

[Mavsfan12]

Reminder, the Mavs won't have cap space next summer nor the summer after that, even if Brunson is gone. 

How are the Mavs bringing "star" players to Dallas again? Mavs couldn't get it done when they actually had cap space. What makes you think they'll definitely get stars when they don't have any space at all? 

Will teams send their stars for old Dinwiddie, THJ, and late 1st rounders? Doubt that is the best offer. 

And we're not even taking into account Christian Wood might still need to be re-signed. How much do you pay him? Could be the Brunson conversation all over again.

"Is Wood worth $25M+ AAV? I know he averaged 18/10 during the season and we just lost in the 1st round, but is he really a #2 guy?"

If Wood is not "worth" re-signing AND Brunson walks, the Mavs have bigger problems.

The Big 3 mindset has really poisoned a lot of fans' minds. Too many think we need multiple superstars or you have no chance to win a championship.

I agree with this statement, to an extent.  That said, if you give max, or near max, contracts to good players, it makes it VERY difficult to overcome.  Couple that with not building through the draft, and I think it is fatal.  I personally like the idea of a singularly excellent player, surrounded by good talent built to feed off of him.  Makes it easier to exchange out the pieces when possible.  But if you start paying everyone like they are a star, it is untenable.  Brunson is a good player.  He is not a star.  I will root for him while he is a Mav though.  When he signs for 25M/yr, I hope it is in a sign and trade for the next round of underrated talent or as a placeholder for a future transaction.  Not because I don't appreciate him, but that it is a contract that prevents us from getting further than we have already.  If we won't use the TPE/TMLE because of salary concerns, we paid too much.  We are not good enough not to use available methods to add talent. Im sorry.  We squandered the opportunities we had when Luka/Brunson were on rookie deals.  That was my personal most posted issue on this board since we moved.  And now the clock has struck 12 and the bill has come due.  Forced to pay who you have because you didn't get better when you had the chance.  Luckily, this will be masked because we have a YOUNG superstar.  When he reaches his peak, its all downhill from there.  Same story, different decade.  We will see if Luka is as loyal as Dirk was.

Do you realize that this is the first season that the Mavs have won a playoff series since 2011, but Luka is the ONLY lottery pick in the rotation to show for it?  I think that it isn't fair to say that the Mavs are looking for a "Big 3" situation when they haven't had a big 2 in so long.  I am willing to go to battle with Luka/JB/Wood.  But I am not deluded enough to think that it is a Big 3.  It is Luka and the Gang.

[Branduil]

If the Mavs let Brunson walk just so they can trade for Kyrie I'm done with this team forever

[BasketballJones41]

There were reasonable routes to sign Collins and Markkanen. Neither the Bulls or Hawks wanted to-resign these players, so if you pushed the envelope, you could have gotten them. We had the outright capspace to sign Markkanen away from the Bulls. We were one trade away from offering Collins the max, which we know the Hawks would very likely not have matched. Or worked out a S&T. Mavs simply preferred to retain THJ over these players.

If you are so fixated on the idea of only getting two way players, why are we re-signing Brunson anyway? He´s not a two-way player by your seemingly ridiculous standards.....and neither is Wood.

Of course the idea that White could be better than Brunson in three years is crazy to you, just like the idea that Brunson could be better than Lowry was crazy to you all 12 months ago or the idea that Brunson could be better than Oladipo three years ago. It´s called forward projection. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn´t. Facts are it took Brunson till age 25 to have a better NBA season than White, who is three years younger.

Also I bet a lot that if we lose Brunson, Cuban will do a face-saving trade and Irving is simply the best candidate for it. Wall and Westbrook don´t get you the positive press, he´ll be craving. So it´s either Lavine or Irving. Lavine is likely too expensive and the Nets are much more likely to accept a package around Dinwiddie + Kleber to get rid of that nutjob.

I’m still sour that we didn’t get Markkanen my damn self. I think there was a very clear and easy route to get it done. It wasn’t exactly a secret that Chicago intended to use him in the Lonzo ball trade. If I remember correctly they actually tried to move him for Lonzo at the deadline before last summer. But the reason they had to use other salaries is because Markkanen didn’t want to play in New Orleans. As we know he did want to play here. Had we been proactive right there we could’ve got him just for facilitating Lonzo to Chicago. At least I feel pretty confident we could have.

[SleepingHero]

So your reasoning for the Mavs being a better run franchise than the Knicks is that the Kings are utter dumbf***s. Not sure that´s the hill I´d like to die on.

https://tenor.com/view/what-are-you-talk...f-17820207

Given the fact the Mavs went out of their way to move up and take the risk in drafting Doncic... yes???? 

Further, you do realize the Mavs were a good team before Luka right? They had the 2nd highest win% for 15 years from 2000-2015. Only the Spurs were better. Mavs had a 12 year playoff stretch that hasn't been matched by any team since. 

What has the Knicks done since 2000?

I can't believe we're really arguing whether or not the Mavs are a better run franchise than the Knicks... sheesh I know plan powder sucked and the Mavs wasted the last of Dirk's years (and mind you that stretch from 2012-2017 is still better than any 5 year stretch by the Knicks at any point since 2000 but I digress), but I'd reckon nearly 90% of the league would trade their last 20 years for ours. 

Also wtf is Powell and Dinwiddie/Bertans are not the Mavs fault supposed to mean?

I'm not absolving the Mavs for an expensive Powell extension that occurred 4 years ago. It was bad at the time. But what I am saying is that the negative aspect of his contract is basically null as it's an expiring. Additionally, the person making the choice behind extending Powell isn't here anymore (or so they say), so ideally the current regime won't follow the same logic as Donnie did behind extending Powell. 

Regarding Dinwiddie/Bertans, again they are overpaid. No doubt about that. BUT the Mavs aren't the ones that gave them their contracts. Second-while overpaid, these guys played vital roles in making this team the 2nd best one in the league post January, played major minutes in a run to the WCF, AND got us out of the KP contract that you loathed. SO why are we trashing them...?

I'm pointing out the logic behind the Knicks going out and overpaying role players without any sort of franchise guy is stupid team building. The Mavs having overpaid guys, while not ideal, isn't as big of a sin because the guys that are currently overpaid by your determination fit Luka incredibly well and are leading to wins.

[SleepingHero]

If the Mavs let Brunson walk just so they can trade for Kyrie I'm done with this team forever

https://twitter.com/legionhoops/status/1...59328?s=21&t=3iaZDY2LvXkyjT6HzowDTw

[Branduil]

https://twitter.com/legionhoops/status/1...59328?s=21&t=3iaZDY2LvXkyjT6HzowDTw

That's good, but who knows what Cuban will be thinking if Brunson leaves. I can absolutely see him thinking a walking disaster like Kyrie is the perfect distraction from his mistakes.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/...7816797185

[DanSchwartzgan]

https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/...7816797185

I've thought about Monk, but as long as Hardaway is here, it doesn't make sense.  Hardy kind of projects to be Monk when he grows up.  

Today is the last day to use the TPE.  Part of me wonders if we should be the team to help NY clear one more salary to get our 2023 pick back.  If Brunson is gone, what harm does it do?  NY is going to be able to move that salary whether we help them or not.  If he stays, we have another defensive player (either Noel or Burks) and are in a better position to use draft capital to improve the team.  

A trade with NY seems counter-intuitive since it would be viewed as "helping the enemy".  I just don't see that it would make a difference to Jalen one way or another.  In fact part of the agreement, if Jalen leaves, might be to hold the signing open so we could combine his outgoing salary with other salaries as part of a larger deal.  I know this could be done after he agrees to leave, but since NY doesn't need us, what is the benefit of helping us.  In fact, if they have out pick, they benefit more by making that pick more middle of the pack than late 20's.

[Kammrath]

Today is the last day to use the TPE.  Part of me wonders if we should be the team to help NY clear one more salary to get our 2023 pick back.  If Brunson is gone, what harm does it do?  NY is going to be able to move that salary whether we help them or not.  If he stays, we have another defensive player (either Noel or Burks) and are in a better position to use draft capital to improve the team.  

A trade with NY seems counter-intuitive since it would be viewed as "helping the enemy".  I just don't see that it would make a difference to Jalen one way or another.  In fact part of the agreement, if Jalen leaves, might be to hold the signing open so we could combine his outgoing salary with other salaries as part of a larger deal.  I know this could be done after he agrees to leave, but since NY doesn't need us, what is the benefit of helping us.  In fact, if they have out pick, they benefit more by making that pick more middle of the pack than late 20's.

It would be incredible to help NYK to clear salary only to keep JB.

[ItsGoTime]

I've thought about Monk, but as long as Hardaway is here, it doesn't make sense.  Hardy kind of projects to be Monk when he grows up.  

Today is the last day to use the TPE.  Part of me wonders if we should be the team to help NY clear one more salary to get our 2023 pick back.  If Brunson is gone, what harm does it do?  NY is going to be able to move that salary whether we help them or not.  If he stays, we have another defensive player (either Noel or Burks) and are in a better position to use draft capital to improve the team.  

A trade with NY seems counter-intuitive since it would be viewed as "helping the enemy".  I just don't see that it would make a difference to Jalen one way or another.  In fact part of the agreement, if Jalen leaves, might be to hold the signing open so we could combine his outgoing salary with other salaries as part of a larger deal.  I know this could be done after he agrees to leave, but since NY doesn't need us, what is the benefit of helping us.  In fact, if they have out pick, they benefit more by making that pick more middle of the pack than late 20's.

If we were to do this, doesn’t it also help them to SnT JB for someone to allow them to keep more cap space for another signing? Let’s say they want more than the MLE to target someone they want that other teams can’t bid as high? Does it work that way? For example: we do the deal now for Noel and our first into our TPE. We then SnT JB (only because he chose them) for Burks and say Cam or Reddish (edit: Toppin, doh). Does that give them $15M more to spend on a FA they want?

[Chicagojk]

https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/...7816797185

Did I miss the reporting that the Mavs had interest/offered a deal for Monk?   What type of deal?

---

https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/...7816797185

Did I miss the reporting that the Mavs had interest/offered a deal for Monk?   What type of deal?

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/...1903249409

[omahen]

Assuming this accurately presents Mavs view. On one hand we have a team that is willing to build around Brunson, that is trying to do everything to get him. On the other hand we have a team that still only see his contract as an avenue towards "bigger" things. Just like in January... Would it really be that strange if Brunson chose NY?

Mavs Film Room ?? on Twitter: "We talked about it on the podcast yesterday, but the minute the ink dries on a Brunson contract in Dallas, they’ll be exploring avenues to trade him for an All-Star type player. That’s why they didn’t offer him an extension in January" / Twitter

[KillerLeft]

Assuming this accurately presents Mavs view. On one hand we have a team that is willing to build around Brunson, that is trying to do everything to get him. On the other hand we have a team that still only see his contract as an avenue towards "bigger" things. Just like in January... Would it really be that strange if Brunson chose NY?

I don't believe that they see him in this light, exclusively. And of course, they can't trade him immediately after the ink dries, so it's kind of irresponsible of the tweeter to paint the situation in that light, imo. 

But to answer your question, yes, if Cuban, Harrison, Kidd and the rest haven't done enough to make Brunson feel like he's a key part of the team here then he's probably looking around for better options. 

But again, I doubt that's the case in reality. I think this entire rumor negotiation is about Brunson getting the most money possible on this contract by manufacturing a bidding war for his services. I don't blame him a bit, but I continue to think he'll be back here with the Mavericks.