2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[burekemde]

Best players on Mavs:

1. Luka
2. Jalen
3. Dorian
4. Healthy Maxi
5. KP

Don’t trade 1-4.

1. Luka
2. Brunson
3. KP
4. DFS
5. Maxi

KP is better defender and offensive player than DFS and Maxi are. All that being said, the "skill" and "bbIQ" gap from "top two" and number 3 is huge. Money also play a role, if KP wasnt paid much, he would have incredible value to the team. 1-2 are untradable in my view especially they way they together peform and fit. 4 and 5 have great value to the team and with chemistry. KP is a great player but maybe doesnt justify what he gets payed and better value can be found.

[SleepingHero]

Interview with Brunson. Not saying he wants to go somewhere but also not screaming he wants to be in Dallas for life

1-on-1 with Coveted NBA Free-Agent-to-Be Jalen Brunson on His 'Good Problems' | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

"I try to not let it affect me at all," Brunson said. "They are good problems to have. I guess teams have been calling about me … but I just try to go out and focus on playing for the Dallas Mavericks because that is who I am with. That is who I am trying to win games for right now."

Not exactly a ringing endorsement here. 

"I am very excited for that. I think it is very special. I am honored to be in the position that I am in. I think most importantly, I have good teammates around me that have been making my life easier. The teammates that I have had have put me in a lot of different positions to be successful. And the good chemistry that I have now is a credit to them. Even ones in high school and college, they've helped push me. And I've accepted the challenge every time. My teammates now help me out as much as they can. I love them for that. I wouldn't be in this position without them."

A little bit nicer here.

[F Gump]

I would argue that Brunson is the rarer player because he is a high level creator.  

Yes. Smart thinking.

Brunson definitely creates offense. He completely qualifies as the "second creator" (and one who's a really good fit) that we were clamoring to get, as the season began, but couldn't figure out where/how to get.

My perception of his value keeps growing, but I think a big part of that is because his game keeps growing. IMO Letting him go should only happen if the Mavs can exact a Major Return in exchange. But, as hard as it is to find this guy, maybe not even then. For example, I've toyed with the question of "What if you could tell NY you will swap JB to them, if they'd get and send you Collins" and as much as I like Collins, I hesitate. I think JB is that valuable here.

[F Gump]

This may be immaterial, but was curious what is the reason for Dallas having an open two way spot?  

Whatever the reason, it's not good. But it's symptomatic of the state of the Mavs and their development system/priorities. I'd guess your answer is one of the following --

* Lazy, perhaps.

* Poor scouting, inability to identify even one player who they think is worth adding.

* Didn't know they could add another, or forgot to do so. (The opportunity has passed.)

* Too cheap to take a shot at adding someone.

[cow]

This schtick is starting to border on obsession. DFS might take a restraining order out on you

Hopefully he has to sign the restraining order.  I'll frame it and hang it in my living room as the prize in my God King shrine.

[Chicagojk]

Whatever the reason, it's not good. But it's symptomatic of the state of the Mavs and their development system/priorities. I'd guess your answer is one of the following --

* Lazy, perhaps.

* Poor scouting, inability to identify even one player who they think is worth adding.

* Didn't know they could add another, or forgot to do so. (The opportunity has passed.)

* Too cheap to take a shot at adding someone.

The thing is, I did not know of Eugene prior to very late in the draft process and pretty much bypassed him.   In retrospect, that was a real nice job of scouting.   I never saw much in the other two way guy.   I liked the Feron Hunt signing and Carlik Jones has proven to be a good G-league player.

I also like EJ Onu signing.  He is a multiyear prospect at best.  He hardly got any playing time with our G-league.  He is now on the Memphis team and had 17 points, 8 rebounds and 6 blocks last night.   G-League Stats are tough to make much out of, but I am surprised he hardly played with the Legends.    Nate Hinton has been putting up some pretty decent stats as well in the G-league recently.

[mvossman]

Yes. Smart thinking.

Brunson definitely creates offense. He completely qualifies as the "second creator" (and one who's a really good fit) that we were clamoring to get, as the season began, but couldn't figure out where/how to get.

My perception of his value keeps growing, but I think a big part of that is because his game keeps growing. IMO Letting him go should only happen if the Mavs can exact a Major Return in exchange. But, as hard as it is to find this guy, maybe not even then. For example, I've toyed with the question of "What if you could tell NY you will swap JB to them, if they'd get and send you Collins" and as much as I like Collins, I hesitate. I think JB is that valuable here.

I would have to go with Collins on that one.  His offense would be a perfect fit with Luka, defensively I could see him playing the Powell role, he is younger than Brunson, and he is locked up on a value contract for years.  I also think his game might explode when not playing next to a traditional center.

I think Brunson is more of a defensive liability, and I still worry about his effectiveness against elite defenses, especially in the playoffs.  He is also about to get paid and a flight risk.  I'm also not sold on his mesh with Luka.  He is crazy valuable when Luka is out, but that is going to be 10 minutes max in a playoff game.  When they are together it feels more like "I go, you go" then really playing off each other.  I realize this could improve.

Of course the biggest issue would be replacing Brunson secondary playmaking and creation.  The playmaking should not be that hard, but the creation is rare.  Just not sure how effective it will be when it counts, and don't know if we can keep him regardless.

[burekemde]

I think Brunson is more of a defensive liability

How could our defense then be so great in so many games if we have two defensive liabilities in Luka and Brunson? I cant get that to match entirely - we have been fantastic defensively, that was the best defensive effort and play in many years for Mavs.

I don't believe they are liabilities, and I think both have the potential to play great D. I think they have shown that in the recent many games playing together.

I totallly agree on Collins. He is similar type of player as Powell. Just a ton a ton better. If we somehow can trade THJ and Powell for Collins, and still keep Maxi that would be awesome. We would replace Powells skills, and exceed them significantly.

[Davemo]

I would have to go with Collins on that one.  His offense would be a perfect fit with Luka, defensively I could see him playing the Powell role, he is younger than Brunson, and he is locked up on a value contract for years.  I also think his game might explode when not playing next to a traditional center.

I think Brunson is more of a defensive liability, and I still worry about his effectiveness against elite defenses, especially in the playoffs.  He is also about to get paid and a flight risk.  I'm also not sold on his mesh with Luka.  He is crazy valuable when Luka is out, but that is going to be 10 minutes max in a playoff game.  When they are together it feels more like "I go, you go" then really playing off each other.  I realize this could improve.

Of course the biggest issue would be replacing Brunson secondary playmaking and creation.  The playmaking should not be that hard, but the creation is rare.  Just not sure how effective it will be when it counts, and don't know if we can keep him regardless.

I could never have imagined anyone saying this at the beginning of the season.   I am still not there yet, but it is absolutely a valid suggestion to think we should keep Brunson instead of trade him outright for JC.  The uncertainty in a playoff atmosphere, flight risk, and overall lack of athleticism makes Collins the winner for me......but not by much.

[michaeltex]

I could never have imagined anyone saying this at the beginning of the season.   I am still not there yet, but it is absolutely a valid suggestion to think we should keep Brunson instead of trade him outright for JC.  The uncertainty in a playoff atmosphere, flight risk, and overall lack of athleticism makes Collins the winner for me......but not by much.

OK, I admit I'm getting older and haven't stayed at a HI Express in over 2 years, but what happened with Collins? Seems like a year ago he was thought to be available at the right price, but ATL didn't trade and then they went on the playoff run and he got paid well. But 7 months later he's tradeable again? 

What's up with that?

[mvossman]

How could our defense then be so great in so many games if we have two defensive liabilities in Luka and Brunson? I cant get that to match entirely - we have been fantastic defensively, that was the best defensive effort and play in many years for Mavs.

I don't believe they are liabilities, and I think both have the potential to play great D. I think they have shown that in the recent many games playing together.

I totallly agree on Collins. He is similar type of player as Powell. Just a ton a ton better. If we somehow can trade THJ and Powell for Collins, and still keep Maxi that would be awesome. We would replace Powells skills, and exceed them significantly.

My post did not mention Luka, so not sure what he has to do with it?  He has played better defense this year and is not really a liability.  Actually you could probably give Brunson some of the credit for that as he has helped relieve some of the pressure off Luka offensively, so he can devote more effort on the defensive end.  

A 30 game run in the regular season is not the same thing as the playoffs.  Brunson is still a target to get hunted.  I don't see his potential to be a great defender.  He is undersized and not terribly athletic.  He has a high BBIQ but I see that being applied more on the offensive end than the defensive.  Unfortunately we will not be able to see him in the playoffs again before we have to make a decision on him.

[omahen]

OK, I admit I'm getting older and haven't stayed at a HI Express in over 2 years, but what happened with Collins? Seems like a year ago he was thought to be available at the right price, but ATL didn't trade and then they went on the playoff run and he got paid well. But 7 months later he's tradeable again?

Unless there is something very wrong in Atlanta locker room, I also don't know why they would want to trade him unless he is bringing in a superstar.

[SleepingHero]

Unless there is something very wrong in Atlanta locker room, I also don't know why they would want to trade him unless he is bringing in a superstar.

They weren't fully committed on bringing him back before their run. Even after their run they didn't want to pay him and he was available. Now he's been chirping to the media about he doesn't like his role and wants more shots. 

I'm not surprised they want to move off from him. Them resigning him is just good asset management.

[ballsrchr]

1. Luka
2. Brunson
3. KP
4. DFS
5. Maxi

KP is better defender and offensive player than DFS and Maxi are. All that being said, the "skill" and "bbIQ" gap from "top two" and number 3 is huge. Money also play a role, if KP wasnt paid much, he would have incredible value to the team. 1-2 are untradable in my view especially they way they together peform and fit. 4 and 5 have great value to the team and with chemistry. KP is a great player but maybe doesnt justify what he gets payed and better value can be found.

Well...I sort of agree with your list, but maybe not some of your conclusions.  In my book, Luka is untradable and one who the Mavs need to do anything possible to keep him happy.  Of course, Luka has a responsibility to the team as well. 

Brunson...I like...and he seems to be getting better and better.  I still don't see his ceiling.  The only qualms I have is: does he want to be a number one on his own team?, and can we afford him.  I've seen some ridiculous figures on what his value is going to be...and some good ones.  It just depends on what the Mavs think they can spend to keep him.  Unlike earlier in the year, I am now thinking we should keep him...if we can.

Ah KP, let me count the ways.  He actually is a good defensive player--when he wants to be.  Offensively...not bad, some faults.  Shot selection is one of them.  The long bombs are flashy, but should only be used when the team is playing from the front.  It can help take the air out of the other team, but a miss is also a nail in the coffin when you are behind.  KP seems to want to play high post--when he hasn't got the body for it (Icahbod Crane!).  Lately I've seen that he might not have the body, or BBIQ to play low post. However, he is playing better and the fit is getting better.  I'm encouraged.  But, I'm sorry, I'm still in the trade KP camp while his value is high(er)...and before he is injured again.  It is the body that will fail him...and us.

I view DFS and Maxi (I admit, he's my man!) as 4A and 4B--for different reasons.  Both are core to the team.  Both play defense.  Both are lacking on offense.  DFS seems to have a little junk yard dog in him...something I didn't expect his first few years.  Maxi does so many things for the team that many people may not see--a glue guy.  I THINK both can improve on offense.  They have improved every year.

[omahen]

Now he's been chirping to the media about he doesn't like his role and wants more shots. 

I think that was pretty much a misinterpretation by the media. I think his complaint was more about undefined roles and the overall losing that was going on before last 5 games or so. He also said he would like to stay in Atlanta for forever.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Yes. Smart thinking.

Brunson definitely creates offense. He completely qualifies as the "second creator" (and one who's a really good fit) that we were clamoring to get, as the season began, but couldn't figure out where/how to get.

My perception of his value keeps growing, but I think a big part of that is because his game keeps growing. IMO Letting him go should only happen if the Mavs can exact a Major Return in exchange. But, as hard as it is to find this guy, maybe not even then. For example, I've toyed with the question of "What if you could tell NY you will swap JB to them, if they'd get and send you Collins" and as much as I like Collins, I hesitate. I think JB is that valuable here.

This is the same calculus I was running when I first started mentioning JB ideas as a means to a bigger end.

Unfortunately, it takes more than just JB to salary match Collins and those elements matter to a team trying to make a playoff run.  Surely Atlanta isn't taking Hardaway to add to Huerter and Bogdonovich at the same position.  So, you are probably looking at Maxi/Bullock and a pick freed up by the trade with NY.  

Now it is Collins for two starters (Maxi and JB) and your 7th man.  Top four starters look great...KP/Collins/DFS/Luka.  Who is #5?  You still have Powell/Green/Frank/Sterling, but one of those guys gets promoted to starter and you need a PG from somewhere to run the second unit.  I think Collins is a fairly substantial upgrade longer term.  But I want to know what the rest of the deal looks like before pulling the trigger.     

Question regarding our second two-way...If Sharife Cooper (2-way for Atlanta) is traded to Dallas as part of some deal, can he fill that open slot we have?

[RedFlag41]

Maybe the following trades will work:

1. Dallas gets Alec Burks, John Collins

2. New York gets JB, Bullock

3. Atlanta gets DP, Maxi and FRP from NY

[mvossman]

Maybe the following trades will work:

1. Dallas gets Alec Burks, John Collins

2. New York gets JB, Bullock

3. Atlanta gets DP, Maxi and FRP from NY

That is essentially two trades.  The Brunson trade and the Collins trade.  You would want the NY pick to go to the Mavs first so we have access to all of our picks.  Then we use a first in the Collins trade.  But I am not sure Atlanta would want both DP and Maxi, and it would probably require two picks to get that deal done.

[Jason Terry]

We get drunk on the regular season and forget about the season that matters. Brunson and players like him get exposed in the playoffs. The lack of defense is a liability. His offense is put to a stop once the players start actually playing defense in the playoffs. Those gimmicky high BBIQ slashes to the hoop don’t exist

Trade now while the stock is high before we lose him for nothing

[RedFlag41]

It works as one three-team trade but it will be better as two trades.

Atlanta is essentially looking for a starter and a FRP for Collins. Powell is only a "near expiring" contract for them.