2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[Jmaciscool]

We need Roco and DFS on the same team just so that we can have the roco-dodo combo which is fun say and hard to play against.

[ItsGoTime]

It's cool to have opinions like this. Can we at least acknowledge that it's a conversation? There was a time when you wouldn't even entertain it. 

And, let's say you were right then. Have you seen Covington play much lately? He has fallen off. I don't know if it's permanent, but I do think it's safe to say that wherever you might fall in that comparison right now, the two players are trending in opposite directions, no?

RoCo looked a lot better in the last couple of games. Averaging 11/8, 2.3stl/1.4blks in january. Shooting 42% from 3. Entire Blazers team is looking better without Lillard and McCollum.
I was with @"ItsGoTime" because it wasn´t really a debate when we had that discussion two or even one year ago. RoCo was a legit all defense team 3&D player. Thing is that DFS improved a lot. RoCo on the other hand looked like he was starting to lose a step.
Comparing both right now they are about equal on the boards. DFS is a better on ball defender (especially against quick guards). RoCo is a better help defender and even offers some rim protection.

I like DFS98's (sidenote, if you changed your name to Dirkfansince1993, your nickname would be DFS93, the year DFS was born!!!!!) reply very much and still mirrors mine a good bit.


Let me preface this reply in that I haven't watched about the last 10 or so games due to how sick I got watching them. Of course, I have had to stay on my sabbatical from watching games because they have started playing much better lately and I CAN'T screw that up by watching now!!!

I think RoCo has gotten a raw deal in both his last 2 teams being required to be mostly the single defensive savior for the team. I mean, he played C almost exclusively in Hou, disgraceful!

We ourselves see the change a coach can make when you actually put your defensive lip service to work on a team. He could have risen above it all and been that defensive player, but that is a lot to ask of any 1 or 2 players. So, I submit, put White/Brooks, RoCo and DFS on the floor TOGETHER, where RoCo CAN guard 1-5, DFS CAN guard 1-4 and Brooks/White CAN guard 1-3 and that defense becomes stifling. Add in Poeltl or MT and we have WTF defense and IMO pretty dang good offense. Of that group, I think Brooks is the hardest to get, but the rest I think are pretty highly gettable, maybe for a bit of an overpay, but if the team roster looks like that when all's said and done? Scary good!

Let me also say, DFS has made his annual no-showing in the beginning of the year on 3% and 3 years in a row he's pulled it out. That's a pattern I can start to get behind albeit WTF worthy. He also has an uptick in FGA and has shown more aptitude to score inside the 3pt line. Punishing defensive lapses is what these 3D players HAVE to figure out. JG has shown the way a bit, and I'm hoping it is starting to stick with these guys without actually watching them.

And in answer to your question, yes, at this point, it is conversation-worthy. If it came down to DFS or RoCo at this point in their careers? I'd probably go with the younger player for that reason mostly, unless RoCo were to come and show what he has previously. I don't know how DFS has done this year guarding 4's, but being the 4 in years past, he hasn't looked all that good.

[ItsGoTime]

I just feel like I was able to see the player DFS is now back then, if that makes sense.

Are you saying DFS hasn't improved since that conversation or that you knew he would become this guy he is today, back then?

[KillerLeft]

Let me also say, DFS has made his annual no-showing in the beginning of the year on 3% and 3 years in a row he's pulled it out. That's a pattern I can start to get behind albeit WTF worthy

Great post, all around. 

My theory on the above is that he has consistently tinkered with his shot during the off-seasons in order to subtly speed up his prep and release. So, it's not just picking up where he left off, in other words. It takes the first month to complete the process.

I haven't checked the stats out lately, but I think he has probably been the Mavs' best catch and shoot guy this year (I have to think he has a much higher volume of attempts than Kleber) which might not be saying much with the shooting the way it has been so far, but SHOULD be saying a lot, given that Hardaway and Bullock are both on this team. All that money to shooters, and DFS is the one I'm most comfortable with when the ball finds him.

[ItsGoTime]

We need Roco and DFS on the same team just so that we can have the roco-dodo combo which is fun say and hard to play against.

I'm with this guy!

[ItsGoTime]

Great post, all around. 

My theory on the above is that he has consistently tinkered with his shot during the off-seasons in order to subtly speed up his prep and release. So, it's not just picking up where he left off, in other words. It takes the first month to complete the process.

I haven't checked the stats out lately, but I think he has probably been the Mavs' best catch and shoot guy this year (I have to think he has a much higher volume of attempts than Kleber) which might not be saying much with the shooting the way it has been so far, but SHOULD be saying a lot, given that Hardaway and Bullock are both on this team. All that money to shooters, and DFS is the one I'm most comfortable with when the ball finds him.

That's a theory I can get behind, since he is pulling it out. I hope there starts to become a time where he isn't tinkering and just getting repetition so he can start out as good as he ends!

[KillerLeft]

Are you saying DFS hasn't improved since that conversation or that you knew he would become this guy he is today, back then?

The second one, though "knew" is probably too strong. To @"dirkfansince1998"'s point, I am not a time traveler (as far as you know). 

I just felt then that I could see what his role in the league was, and felt strongly that he was up to it. I still don't think he has hit his ceiling. He's a late bloomer, and for all the hate that Carlisle got around here for not developing young players, I'd say the work he did with DFS is one of the better pieces of development in the NBA over the past decade or so. That's not to diminish the current staff or DFS, himself. 

This is a more general comment, and one I've made before, but I really think fans are too quick to cap what the word "development" means for pro athletes. These guys are capable of learning/improving well into their late 20's and early 30's, given the right work ethic, teachers, organization and opportunity. It seems to me like half the battle for pro athletes is being a good enough employee and teammate to be allowed to hang around long enough to figure it all out.

[ItsGoTime]

I just felt then that I could see what his role in the league was, and felt strongly that he was up to it. I still don't think he has hit his ceiling. He's a late bloomer, and for all the hate that Carlisle got around here for not developing young players, I'd say the work he did with DFS is one of the better pieces of development in the NBA over the past decade or so. That's not to diminish the current staff or DFS, himself. 

So we were having 2 different conversations. I was talking about right then and there, you were talking about the player you saw he was going to turn out to be. If you were having my conversation, would it have been a conversation?

[KillerLeft]

If you were having my conversation, would it have been a conversation?

Well, if you remember then, I never felt like the Mavs were ready (or should have been expected to be) to contend. So, from my perspective, the younger guy on the way up was the way to go, then and now. Don't get me wrong, even then I probably thought it was a closer call than you did, and we can disagree about that forever, for all I care. I definitely didn't think Covington was worth what Portland paid for him in trade, that's for sure. 

Now? I would still love Covington (but again, for a much cheaper price) and I probably would start him at the 4 over Kleber, but I don't think he'd make DFS any more expendable than Bullock has (not that you're saying that right now).

[KillerLeft]

Let me preface this reply in that I haven't watched about the last 10 or so games due to how sick I got watching them. Of course, I have had to stay on my sabbatical from watching games because they have started playing much better lately and I CAN'T screw that up by watching now!!!

I have to say that the last 10 games or so have been the most enjoyable stretch of the Mavs' season by a significantly wide margin. Luka is starting to play like Luka again, and you'd be shocked at the new defensive identity blooming right in front of us. It's a totally normal occurrence for the Mavs to come out of the locker room for the 3rd quarter and totally shut the opposition down to the tune of a 22-6 run, or some such. This has been a consistent trend, I'd venture to say. 

I feel sorry for you for missing these games, but if you missing them is the difference, you owe it to us all to continue!

[ItsGoTime]

Well, if you remember then, I never felt like the Mavs were ready (or should have been expected to be) to contend. So, from my perspective, the younger guy on the way up was the way to go, then and now. Don't get me wrong, even then I probably thought it was a closer call than you did, and we can disagree about that forever, for all I care. I definitely didn't think Covington was worth what Portland paid for him in trade, that's for sure. 

Now? I would still love Covington (but again, for a much cheaper price) and I probably would start him at the 4 over Kleber, but I don't think he'd make DFS any more expendable than Bullock has (not that you're saying that right now).

This all depends on the other players, but I'm with you, and as far as who gets the nod at starting over the other if it did come to that? Whoever plays better in our system, IMO. Let's say we got RoCo and Siakam. That makes it a RoCo or DFS equation, and I stand by what I said, but at this point, it most definitely is conversation-worthy, and whoever did get the nod, there would probably be a faction on here that thought it was the worst decision the Mavs could have ever made in the history of the Mavs!


I do realize this is a step back from my previous take that DFS is not the right guy to start on a championship team unless you have 3 superstars on the team. I think there might be room for him (seeing him evolve his game a bit) on a 2 superstar championship team or 1 superstar and the other 3 being HIGHLY regarded.

The team I proposed was a good gelling 2011 type winning team, that isn't what I want to build here. I want the year-in/year-out championship contender type team, a dynasty. If that isn't the ultimate goal, I'm not sure what we're doing here.

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I feel sorry for you for missing these games, but if you missing them is the difference, you owe it to us all to continue!

I might have to step into the game thread and just watch box scores during the game to "test the waters"! Although, I can't do it with Pho, cause they aren't a team you test any theories on this year!

[sterlingmallory]

I'm just shocked (then and now) by people who actually believe getting DFS of all people out of this lineup should be the goal.

I mean, I really don't think the goal is to get DFS out of the lineup. I don't think anyone is looking at the roster and thinking he's the guy we need to upgrade. The goal is to upgrade the overall talent of the roster. No one is untouchable except Luka. If the right trade for a significant upgrade comes along, you have to consider. Chances are very low something like that materializes. But you have to be open to it if it does.

[KillerLeft]

I mean, I really don't think the goal is to get DFS out of the lineup.

I don't either, but it is factual that someone said that exact thing to me earlier tonight.

[Scott41theMavs]

He's a late bloomer, and for all the hate that Carlisle got around here for not developing young players, I'd say the work he did with DFS is one of the better pieces of development in the NBA over the past decade or so. That's not to diminish the current staff or DFS, himself. 

Let's not forget that he played for several years next to the king of work ethic and personal improvement.

[KillerLeft]

I can't do it with Pho, cause they aren't a team you test any theories on this year!

Something tells me that playing Phoenix on a B2B might just provide the opening you need before Sunday's game.

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Let's not forget that he played for several years next to the king of work ethic and personal improvement.

Another great point from Scott! I agree!

[dirkfansince1998]

Let's not forget that he played for several years next to the king of work ethic and personal improvement.

[fifteenth]

I can't do it with Pho

I love pho! Had some just the other day. Khans in southwest FW is the best.

[mvossman]

I am not on team replace DFS. I am on team lower his work load. Mavs don´t need to replace him. They need to replace one of the smaller wings and find a forward that can play some of DFS´s and Kleber´s minutes. Someone like RoCo or Batum.

The beauty of a player like that is they will also take workload off Maxi (who needs it more than DFS).

[Nowitzki Way]

I love pho! Had some just the other day. Khans in southwest FW is the best.

Have you tried Pho District DFW on West 7TH? Amazing!

[fifteenth]

Have you tried Pho District DFW on West 7TH? Amazing!

No, but we'll check that out!! We used to go to a coffee shop in the little strip center next to Trinity Park. I work near there when I have to report to the office. 

Are you are a Forth Worthian?