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2021-2022 MAVS NEWS: 4th in West | WCF loss [ARCHIVED]
(01-24-2022, 10:38 AM)Mapka Wrote: Trade of the day:
Sacred Cow traded for Cash Considerations to improve depth (of owners pockets).

Please don't do that, don't trade cow  Sad
Our team needs cows and milk.
Much better than pigs and beer.
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(01-24-2022, 07:41 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: To me, Brunson is the only player who can generate a premium return.  Part of that return (and it has to be more than this) unlocks a trove of assets we don't have access to now.  Trading Brunson is a means to a larger end.  If you can use those assets to get a final piece type guy (and some return from NY), I think it has to be considered.


Like your previous post said, it's hard to sign up on trading Brunson as a precursor to a bigger move until you actually know what that move is. 

The only sure fire "Yes I will unlock the trove of assets+ Brunson" trades I'd like are:
Jaylen Brown
KAT
Ingram
Zion (I don't think its likely but there's enough smoke here to think a trade is possible)
SGA

There are others but they are even less realistic than these. I'm probably setting my sights too high here since the best package the Mavs can do include Maxi+DFS+picks. Add in the prerequisite Brunson trade and all of a sudden we're giving up every single one of our positive impact players for a star.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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(01-24-2022, 10:38 AM)Mapka Wrote: Trade of the day:
Sacred Cow traded for Cash Considerations to improve depth (of owners pockets).

I hope you're not talking about MavsBoard's sacred Cow!!
Not very astute ^^^^
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(01-24-2022, 07:41 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: This guy is saying a lot of what I've been saying.  

They probably won't pay tax on both JB and DFS.  Possible, but not likely.  If you try to keep both, you've got to move off of some other money.

THJ doesn't bring back value in a trade.  They probably would love to get off his money if they can (he also mentions getting off Powell as a means of saving money...booooo).

You don't trade KP when he's going like this (plus, if you trade him you won't get full value which is a step backwards).

DFS is likely retained for about the MLE or slightly more.  You keep him because his multi-positional chops are hard to find.

PG is more easily replaced than wing.  JB might be a negative value contract at 4/$80.  More likely his value is similar to Graham at $12mm.  You keep him for that, but you have to at least look at getting your pick back from NY plus something given Brunson's UFA status and the reports NY wants him.  Unfortunately, the names he names from NY are not the names we like around here.  He mentions Kemba and Miles McBride (I like McBride's upside actually).  

To me, Brunson is the only player who can generate a premium return.  Part of that return (and it has to be more than this) unlocks a trove of assets we don't have access to now.  Trading Brunson is a means to a larger end.  If you can use those assets to get a final piece type guy (and some return from NY), I think it has to be considered.

I agree with most of this, but I think you are underselling both Graham and Brunson a bit.  Graham got 12 as a RFA.  He probably would have gotten closer to 15 as a UFA.  Also they are very different players.  Graham is a true point guard and a fairly good high volume 3 point shooter, but useless inside the three point line.  Brunson is a creator and elite in the midrange.

PG can easily be replaced, but guys who can create at a high level are not.  I think the jury is still out on Brunson against the highest competition (playoffs).  Can he still create against a long, athletic fully engaged defenses?  Will he be hunted relentlessly on defense?

Unfortunately we wont get to see Brunson in a playoff situation before we have to make a decision, as we have to make that decision at the TDL.  If Brunson is on this roster after the TDL, the we have to sign him or we have made a colossal mistake.
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(01-24-2022, 11:19 AM)fifteenth Wrote: I hope you're not talking about MavsBoard's sacred Cow!!

As we see, this cow is really sacred. Angel
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BREAKING: FROM A NOBODY SAUCE AT MAVSBOARD...

Based on careful examination from chair at home, Luka is slimming down a bit and looks a little quicker and more active.
Not very astute ^^^^
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(01-24-2022, 11:52 AM)fifteenth Wrote: BREAKING: FROM A NOBODY SAUCE AT MAVSBOARD...

Based on careful examination from chair at home, Luka is slimming down a bit and looks a little quicker and more active.

Tell us more about his breakaway dunk last night ... Wink

(01-24-2022, 11:33 AM)mvossman Wrote: PG can easily be replaced, but guys who can create at a high level are not.  

I don't really understand this part of the conversation. E.g., The Knicks have been looking for a competent PG since before the days of Linsanity. That's why they are contemplating paying Brunson $80/4. 

There are a zillion adequate wings around the league. The Mavs have ~6 aorn.
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(01-24-2022, 12:35 PM)BackToSquareOne Wrote: There are a zillion adequate wings around the league. The Mavs have ~6 aorn.


I agree that Brunson will not be easily replaced, but I do not agree with the above as it's used in the context of trading DFS. He is not the same type of "wing" as any of the others you mention on the roster. Some of them are competent, but none of them can do the full scope of what he does. 

I don't think there are actually many cheap role players in the league who can. Most of the guys with DFS's size, length, conditioning (we take his heavy minutes so for granted) and versatility are stars.
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(01-23-2022, 10:20 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/mavs-...0548695030

Really good podcast here by cap expert Yossi Gozlan. He believes that Brunson will probably only get 12-15mil max this summer, and thinks he could be traded to the Knicks.

Let's say this guy is right, and JB will be 12-15M starting salary. Let's also say DFS is slightly below that, say 10-12.5M.

Don't those numbers fit well, in the Mavs payroll mix, for 2 starters? I think they do.
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(01-24-2022, 01:42 PM)F Gump Wrote: Let's say this guy is right, and JB will be 12-15M starting salary. Let's also say DFS is slightly below that, say 10-12.5M.

Don't those numbers fit well, in the Mavs payroll mix, for 2 starters? I think they do.

They 100% do. 

The one issue I have is Gozlan seems to be downplaying sign and trades. We've seen UFA's force their way to teams with no cap space before. So I don't realistically think Brunson is going to get 12-15M. Probably closer to 16-18M.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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It's a pickle. 

Brunson is probably the piece that's hot enough right now to get some type of advantageous return at the deadline. And, if the team is worried about him bouncing this summer, my guess is they can get a better deal at the deadline than they could in any S&T. And, not having to re-sign him could make ironing out the financial issues of the coming summer easier to navigate (depending on what they get back in the trade). 

BUT, trading Brunson at the deadline would almost certainly make the ceiling for this season significantly lower. Like, WAY lower. 

Tough to know what to do, especially with the info we have. For all we know, the Mavs and Brunson's team have already determined that he wants to stay here, and might even have a price range. I mean, they certainly did talk about an extension this past summer (though how seriously we don't know) so there is probably an understanding between the parties about the likelihood of Brunson staying or going that we're in the dark about here. 

If they trade him, we'll pretty much know that he told them he wants to be the starting PG somewhere, I think.
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(01-24-2022, 01:42 PM)F Gump Wrote: Let's say this guy is right, and JB will be 12-15M starting salary. Let's also say DFS is slightly below that, say 10-12.5M.

Don't those numbers fit well, in the Mavs payroll mix, for 2 starters? I think they do.

Yes, and at those numbers trading THJ for an expiring would put us just under the tax.  To me the ideal TDL is to trade THJ for someone like Dragic or Gary Harris, sign Brunson to his max extension and Sign DFS to roughly 11 mil a year extension.
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(01-24-2022, 02:17 PM)mvossman Wrote: Yes, and at those numbers trading THJ for an expiring would put us just under the tax.  To me the ideal TDL is to trade THJ for someone like Dragic or Gary Harris, sign Brunson to his max extension and Sign DFS to roughly 11 mil a year extension.


If one of THJ or Bullock can be used to this effect, while ALSO bringing in another minor asset (minor pick or minimum salary prospect, like Brown was this year) I think I'm into it. Improves the situation, but doesn't completely shake up this team which appears to be functioning at a high level these days. 

Bonus points if the high-dollar expiring guy (Dragic, for example) can be retained into the future at a much lower cost, somehow.

Point is that one of THJ/Bullock/Green is going to squeezed out of this rotation when things get real down the stretch and in the playoffs. So, one of those guys probably needs to go, and I hope it's not Green (can't believe how quickly the kid has won me over).
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(01-24-2022, 02:22 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: If one of THJ or Bullock can be used to this effect, while ALSO bringing in another minor asset (minor pick or minimum salary prospect, like Brown was this year) I think I'm into it. Improves the situation, but doesn't completely shake up this team which appears to be functioning at a high level these days. 

Bonus points if the high-dollar expiring guy (Dragic, for example) can be retained into the future at a much lower cost, somehow.

Point is that one of THJ/Bullock/Green is going to squeezed out of this rotation when things get real down the stretch and in the playoffs. So, one of those guys probably needs to go, and I hope it's not Green (can't believe how quickly the kid has won me over).

I don't think either of those guys (THJ/Bullock) is going to bring any kind of asset.  

A Dragic or Gary Harris is the kind of guy that will likely cost considerably less next year.

The difference between those three guys is THJ is going to be 20 mil against cap, Bullock 10 and Green 3.  THJ is the only one that does not seem to really fit what Kidd is trying to do, and has a big enough salary to come close to covering DFS and Brunson extensions.
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(01-24-2022, 02:31 PM)mvossman Wrote: I don't think either of those guys (THJ/Bullock) is going to bring any kind of asset.  

A Dragic or Gary Harris is the kind of guy that will likely cost considerably less next year.

The difference between those three guys is THJ is going to be 20 mil against cap, Bullock 10 and Green 3.  THJ is the only one that does not seem to really fit what Kidd is trying to do, and has a big enough salary to come close to covering DFS and Brunson extensions.

I get the financial part, trust me. I know moving Bullock doesn't immediately solve the future tax issues. But, I think there are ways of making it work and it helps a little. 

And, I see that THJ is getting more minutes than Bullock and wonder if the Mavs, like me, believe that THJ (if playing well again, potentially) is more important to the prospect of reaching this team's full potential than Bullock, who, to my eye (so far) has been very overrated around here defensively. I love his quick release though! 

I wouldn't cry if Hardaway is moved, don't get me wrong.
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(01-24-2022, 02:05 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: They 100% do. 

The one issue I have is Gozlan seems to be downplaying sign and trades. We've seen UFA's force their way to teams with no cap space before. So I don't realistically think Brunson is going to get 12-15M. Probably closer to 16-18M.

I get the viability of snt, and of the fa's preferred destination.

But I don't buy in to the idea that JB himself prefers NY. I think they want him. But that's not at all the same thing, and that difference is huge in how this should be played.

JB has found a team and a fit, and a context in which to excel. That stuff matters way more than people realize.
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(01-24-2022, 02:17 PM)mvossman Wrote: ... sign Brunson to his max extension and ..

I keep seeing this phraseology (not sure if it is, or isn't, only from you), and I'm not sure what you mean.

But I know you can't be saying what is there, because the max for JB as a fa would be 5 years, 172.55M. That's obviously not happening.

OTOH as an extension, it has to be done before he becomes a fa, and it starts at no more than about $11.5M as I recall, which we assume JB isn't interested in doing. So if he won't, you can't.
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(01-24-2022, 03:33 PM)F Gump Wrote: I keep seeing this phraseology (not sure if it is, or isn't, only from you), and I'm not sure what you mean.

But I know you can't be saying what is there, because the max for JB as a fa would be 5 years, 172.55M. That's obviously not happening.

OTOH as an extension, it has to be done before he becomes a fa, and it starts at no more than about $11.5M as I recall, which we assume JB isn't interested in doing. So if he won't, you can't.

Maybe I am misremembering the max extension.  I thought it was around 14M?  Don't see him doing 11.5 but 14 is an area where he might pull the trigger.  If its 11.5 then that is more like what we would sign DFS to, but I could swear it was more than that.

EDIT: looks like its 55.6 for 4.  That is roughly 14 mil.  That seems like a possibility.  That is why it is my ideal.  Don't know if he would do it, but he might and locking him up at 14 would make me a lot less worried going into the offseason.
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(01-24-2022, 05:45 PM)mvossman Wrote: Maybe I am misremembering the max extension.  I thought it was around 14M?  Don't see him doing 11.5 but 14 is an area where he might pull the trigger.  If its 11.5 then that is more like what we would sign DFS to, but I could swear it was more than that.

EDIT: looks like its 55.6 for 4.  That is roughly 14 mil.  That seems like a possibility.  That is why it is my ideal.  Don't know if he would do it, but he might and locking him up at 14 would make me a lot less worried going into the offseason.

JBs max extension starts at around 11.5.  That's the cap hit in 2022. Future years would have raises.

In any event, offering that number/deal is a dead end and not worth endorsing, since he's not interested, apparently. Nor should he be. That's not a lot more than MLE money (which should start at ~10M this year).
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I don't think Mark Cuban minds paying the tax.

https://www.espn.com/blog/dallas/maveric...-tax-kings
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