NEWS: RC out | Kidd hired as head coach & assembling staff

[Kammrath]

I think it got to a point where Rick perceived Jamahl Mosley's close relationship with Luka Doncic as a threat to him. I don't think those guys will necessarily send each other Christmas cards

This by far makes the most sense. RC is super smart, he probably knew his "endorsement" of Kidd would cut in TWO different ways:

1) Against Mosley.

2) Against Kidd/Luka.

[dirkfansince1998]

This by far makes the most sense. RC is super smart, he probably knew his "endorsement" of Kidd would cut in TWO different ways:

1) Against Mosley.

2) Against Kidd/Luka.

See my other post. Why is this report more trustworthy than the Cuban/Fords one. Both opinions from the writer himself. No evidence. No facts.

[Kammrath]

Why is this report more trustworthy than the Cuban/Fords one. Both opinions from the writer himself. No evidence. No facts.

There was no "report" about Cuban and Forde other than Cuban HIRED Forde. There was a statement from Cato that league sources were ASSUMING Cuban did it as a PR stunt. No evidence. No facts. 

Cato, MacMahon, and Dameris to my knowledge have all pointed to RC's comment about Kidd being a dig at Mosley and/or Kidd/Luka. These guys have inside perspectives to make educated guesses. I also have been watching RC and Mosley and Luka for months and months and it rings true to my observations. I NEVER said "fact" or "evidence" I simply said it makes the most sense to me.

[KillerLeft]

[dirkfansince1998]

There was no "report" about Cuban and Forde other than Cuban HIRED Forde. There was a statement from Cato that league sources were ASSUMING Cuban did it as a PR stunt. No evidence. No facts. 

Cato, MacMahon, and Dameris to my knowledge have all pointed to RC's comment about Kidd being a dig at Mosley and/or Kidd/Luka. These guys have inside perspectives to make educated guesses. I also have been watching RC and Mosley and Luka for months and months and it rings true to my observations. I NEVER said "fact" or "evidence" I simply said it makes the most sense to me.

This is going nowhere. League sources that are mentioned by Cato don't count. But when Cato mentions Mosley/RC it makes the most sense. Confirmation bias. We all have it.

[KillerLeft]

This is going nowhere.

[Kammrath]

League sources that are mentioned by Cato don't count. But when Cato mentions Mosley/RC it makes the most sense.

Here are Cato's words:

"League sources always viewed the firm’s involvement as a public relations ploy more than Cuban seriously considering any concession of decision-making influence."

So league sources "view" what Cuban did in a particular way. That does not mean it actually WAS that. Cato is expressing the sentiment of outsiders and how they view what Cuban was up to. I get no impression that Cato is "reporting" that Cuban used Forde as a ploy. In fact Cato reported that Forde's firm did in fact suggest league execs to Cuban. 

On the other hand, Cato, MacMahon, and Dameris all expressing a similar sentiment on what RC was doing by "endorsing" Kidd is very different IMO. Three connected guys offering their take which, like I said, also confirms what I had witnessed in the dynamics of Luka, RC, and Mosley myself as a fan.

I am not "picking and choosing" what to listen to from Cato....I am trying to be a very discerning listener and make sure I am paying attention to subtleties.

[F Gump]

Here's another bone to chew on with the speculating and analyzing --

The Mavs' player development process and results have been horrendous in relation to the G-League. While some of the NBA teams have used their G-League to create a pipeline of developing young free agent talent for the NBA team, who later get promoted to the NBA roster and become useful players, the Mavs never have gotten much from the Legends.

However, some of the Legends players have turned into very helpful NBA players. Just not with the Mavs.

The Mavs' 2-way signings have also turned into nothing, year after year. Just sign some, they get tried out, then the next year they try some others.

Clearly the Mavs development process has been broken. Maybe the scouting, too, that picks the players to develop. So ...

1 Do the Mavs even think there's a problem?

2 If so, did the changes fix any of the above? If so, in what way?

3 In that area, was Donnie somehow part of the problem or part of the solution? How about Rick?

4 The owner of the Legends is Donnie. How will that work going forward? Or will that change too?

[Jommybone]

I ask in ignorance, do undrafted guys like DFS and Maxi not count as Mavs developing guys?

[KillerLeft]

Live footage of @"F Gump" entering the conversation:

[DallasBasketball]

These “reporters” sound like teenage gossips. MacMahon “thinks” Rick felt threatened? What an odd conjecture to share. 

I get that it could be true. But I don’t trust that these guys know what they’re talking about.

This is what I’m thinking. The train immediately left the station on Carlisle ‘meant something nefarious’ by recommending Kidd to coach Luka. 

But I don’t think it has to be that way. I think it’s possible he’s a good actor and not a bad actor and feels some residual ownership in the Mavs having been here for 13 seasons and being such a big part of the franchise history. 

I could be inclined to believe that his subconscious acted against Mosley while consciously trying to help the team and recommend Kidd, and it was his ego that later revealed it in the Indiana press conference.

[KillerLeft]

I ask in ignorance, do undrafted guys like DFS and Maxi not count as Mavs developing guys?

IMO, those guys are examples of Carlisle and his staff developing guys, yes. Not really evidence that the G-league team is accomplishing much.

[F Gump]

I ask in ignorance, do undrafted guys like DFS and Maxi not count as Mavs developing guys?

Not at all. They were signed to NBA contracts and developed almost entirely on the NBA team. Did either even go to Frisco to play?

In my questions, I'm looking at The Legends and the Mavs' ability (or lack of same) to get anything significant from that tie. They were actually early to the game in setting up their own DL/GL franchise. But while other NBA teams seem to have turned such a tie into a minor league that feeds their roster, with undrafted guys and 2-way guys, the Mavs don't, from what I have seen.

I see that as a problem. I wonder why. I am pondering what these changes do to fix that (if anything). I ask.

[Jommybone]

Thanks.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

McMahon reported Forde was hired on July 16.  (Donnie and Carlisle were still scheduled to travel to Slovenia around June 7/8).

There is not even a hint anywhere else on the internet that Forde was involved with the Mavs/Cuban before then.  I can't imagine hiring a front office search firm when you already have someone employed for that position.




FYI, JKidd took his name out of the Portland job search because apparently people in the Pacific Northwest still care about things like domestic violence.  The media there was ripping his possible hiring and even taking shots at Dame Lillard for suggesting him.

[Jommybone]

McMahon reported Forde was hired on July 16.  (Donnie and Carlisle were still scheduled to travel to Slovenia around June 7/8).

There is not even a hint anywhere else on the internet that Forde was involved with the Mavs/Cuban before then.  I can't imagine hiring a front office search firm when you already have someone employed for that position.

This makes sense. I hadn’t seen that report, and I’m a bit dubious of it. I doubt there are very many people, outside of Cuban himself and the Forde firm, who know when that engagement began. And I doubt any of them are MacMahon’s sources.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

BTW...there are allegations that just surfaced about Billups.  I wouldn't be shocked if he's fired before he even begins the job.

[Kammrath]

McMahon reported Forde was hired on July 16.  

There is not even a hint anywhere else on the internet that he was involved with the Mavs/Cuban before then.

So this tweet by Stein:

https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/...0523500545

States that the Mavs "have hired" Forde Sportsology to help their search. Just because Stein and others learned that info on June 16 doesn't mean that they were hired THAT day. Just as a small example, Cato's article came out on June 14 and Donnie was announced as fired on June 16 by Stein, but we later learned that Donnie had actually been fired the week before on June 10. So just because Stein announces the hiring of Forde on June 16 does not mean that is when the hiring actually happened. Also, if you hire a firm to look to replace a guy who is still employed by you, you do it discreetly and do not announce it on the internet.

[Kammrath]

I doubt there are very many people, outside of Cuban himself and the Forde firm, who know when that engagement began.

Bingo.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

YES...so in conclusion:

1. Stein and McMahon report Forde hired on June 16th.
 Cato reports Forde was presented a list of names instead of conducting the search.
 Donnie was still scheduled to visit Luka in Slovenia as of June 7-8th.

2.  You guess Forde was working behind the scenes for weeks in secret as part of Cuban's master plan.


I'll let everyone else decide which side is based on reported "facts" and which side is conjecture based on wishful thinking.  That'll be my last post on the topic.  See yall on Monday when we can hopefully start discussing free agency and trades.