Developing KP as a scorer

[vfromlmf]

I'll start by pointing out that I'm not concerned about KP-at all. We're only 6 games in and he's looked terrific at times; and a little rusty at others, but I'm confident by mid-season he'll be even more dominant offensively. 

Even now, he's looked pretty damn good, averaging 20 and 8 on percentages that match his last season in NY, while his overall scoring efficiency is up. 

Interestingly, he's taking almost 2 more threes per game, but his shots overall are down almost 2 per game.

KP is doing great by just about any measure - but I think there's much more in the tank - as he's yet to develop a go-to move or spot on the floor the Mavs can go to late in games.

Carlisle is a mastermind of maximizing players' potential ... My question is what do you think will become KP's dominant move? What will opponents fear late in games?

[SleepingHero]

KP loves to drive the ball left and pullup. If we can isolate him off the right side of the court, and have him drive left, he would be unstoppable.

Just getting more postups on the ride side using the classic Dirk play where a guard cross screens for him can get him so many wide open looks to the basket. 

Last night I felt that KP didn't get many shot attempts, but he ended the game with 14, on efficient shooting! He's getting 16.7 a game this year so far which is more than I thought he was getting. But looking at it from the first 3 games (16, 17,23) Kristaps averaged 26.3ppg, 5.7rpg, and 2.7bpg on 46% FG, 40% from 3, and 72% from the line and averaged 18.7 shot attempts per game. The last three he's been averaging a much reduced 14.7 shot attempts, and consequently his point per game stat has dropped like a rock with KP averaging 14.7ppg, 10.7rpg, and 2.7bpg on 38.6% from the field and 35% from 3. 

Has KP regressed because he's still working his way back into it? Or is it because he's being underutilized? I'm not too sure yet. But no matter I'd like to see KP get the ball more and shoot back what he was shooting before these last 3 games.

[vfromlmf]

KP's shots are down but his looks are pretty diverse. I'd guess that's the result of Carlisle experimenting.

He had a couple of shots on the left block (similar to AD) against CLE. He shot bank shots both times - and I think he missed both - but I'm not sure.

I haven't noticed him be tremendously effective from the right mid-post (Dirk silhouette). 

I wonder if the top-of-the-key is outdated with all the emphasis on threes & layups.

He's getting the ball off an Iverson cut like he's a guard a few times per game. This is a super innovative, modern use of a 7' 3" guy but KP needs more work in this set.

[ItsGoTime]

Has KP regressed because he's still working his way back into it? Or is it because he's being underutilized? I'm not too sure yet. But no matter I'd like to see KP get the ball more and shoot back what he was shooting before these last 3 games.

Man, this is exactly the question I'd like to get to. I asked it in the gamethread to those saying he's not playing in the "flow" of the offense, or is too passive and similar takes. I don't see that at all and would really like an explanation as to what those guys are seeing, with specifics, since I'm watching the same games they are watching. I DO see the ball being worked opposite his side of the court quite a bit, as well as ball handlers not specifically working to get him the ball when he is working to get open. 

I thought at the beginning of the season that we would see a ton more pick and roll/pop with Luka and KP than we are seeing. To answer the OP question, I think that should be the end of game go-to "move" with 3-point shooters (Curry/Brunson/Kleber) and off-ball cutters (DFS/Wright/Powell) doing their thing as another target to go-to in case that play is stymied.

[vfromlmf]

I thought at the beginning of the season that we would see a ton more pick and roll/pop with Luka and KP than we are seeing.

Agree we should see a lot of Doncic/KP PnR to close games. 

I guess I wonder how will Carlisle get KP going when Luka is off the floor and KP is the focal point of the offense.

[ItsGoTime]

He had a couple of shots on the left block (similar to AD) against CLE. He shot bank shots both times - and I think he missed both - but I'm not sure.

If I remember correctly, he had 3 of those and made 1 of the 3. It's a really good move and shot (Dirk and Duncan both used it) so with more practice, that is a shot that he will have more 2-3 for 3 nights than 1 for 3.

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I guess I wonder how will Carlisle get KP going when Luka is off the floor and KP is the focal point of the offense.

Every time I see him subbed in without Luka, I think, OK, here is where he gets a lot of scoring opportunities. I come away from those moments thinking, why didn't KP get the ball more usually. 

Some of that might very well be that Wright and Brunson are relieved that they get to touch the ball more and be a bigger part of the offense, as we've heard Wright say he likes coming off the bench so he can be utilized more. I don't know, just spitballing right now.

[Kammrath]

KP's greatest weakness (and the whole issue so far) is that he is NOT good in the pick and roll. Period. His all star season in NYK he was 35th percentile in the league as a roll man (meaning almost the bottom third of the league).

He is a bad screen setter, doesn't really make contact, takes bad angles, doesn't have the feel of how to roll, etc.

DP, Maxi, and Boban are all MUCH better pick and roll partners for Luka. And this is why Luka+KP has been BAD so far this season from a +/- perspective. 


I have faith KP can and will get better at this. It NEEDS to be the main focus of his training frankly.

[dirkfansince1998]

KP's greatest weakness (and the whole issue so far) is that he is NOT good in the pick and roll. Period. His all star season in NYK he was 35th percentile in the league as a roll man (meaning almost the bottom third of the league).

He is a bad screen setter, doesn't really make contact, takes bad angles, doesn't have the feel of how to roll, etc.

DP, Maxi, and Boban are all MUCH better pick and roll partners for Luka. And this is why Luka+KP has been BAD so far this season from a +/- perspective. 


I have faith KP can and will get better at this. It NEEDS to be the main focus of his training frankly.

That´s a great point. Especially the part about screens. Watching Luka with Boban last night really showed how important hard screens are.
Right now I don´t really want KP to set those screens because I am still concerned about his health but longterm he needs to work on it. Dirk wasn´t Shaq either but his screens were solid.

[vfromlmf]

He is a bad screen setter, doesn't really make contact

Excellent point; agree 100% - KP really needs to improve his screens if he's going to be an effective PnR player.

I'm sure there are some stats for this but my gut tells me KP is getting the majority of his points off deep three / catch & shoot; or put backs. 

He's finishing, but he doesn't yet seem to be scoring well when offense runs through him. 

He's been a surprisingly good passer though. When he develops a move or spot on the floor that commands a double team I think the vision is there for him to really develop into a playmaker.

[michaeltex]

He is a bad screen setter, doesn't really make contact

Excellent point; agree 100% - KP really needs to improve his screens if he's going to be an effective PnR player.

I'm sure there are some stats for this but my gut tells me KP is getting the majority of his points off deep three / catch & shoot; or put backs. 

He's finishing, but he doesn't yet seem to be scoring well when offense runs through him. 

He's been a surprisingly good passer though. When he develops a move or spot on the floor that commands a double team I think the vision is there for him to really develop into a playmaker.

Isn't this part of the support and development he wasn't getting in NY because he didn't have an adequate PnR partner? 

To me, this is where the relationship with Luka develops and that's going to take working on the play's finer points and developing trust in each other. Obviously, Luka values KP as a spot up shooter and isn't afraid to pass it out to him, but (my observation) it's usually Maxi or DP that's diving to the rim whenever he drives. I think KPs working a little more off the post in the last few games, but maybe that's a mirage in my mind.

[LukTheShadow]

We have to be patient. Injury, long rehab, new team, new role. Statistically he's already back when he has been before injury. That's huge after 5,6 games. Who was in NY to run p'n'roll with him 2 years ago? For p'n'roll all 5 players have to work together. Rick will find a way to maximize his contribution. On offense he'll learn and the rest of the team too, but team have to work on defense much more, that's weak point in mavs game in this early season. In the shadow of Luka's on court production and stats 99% of league players are not good enough for us fans anyway; we are mainly top demanding animals with 1 game back memory at most..
We have to be super happy to have him!

[SleepingHero]

He is a bad screen setter, doesn't really make contact, takes bad angles, doesn't have the feel of how to roll, etc.

Totally agree. KP doesn't screen at all. He loves to slip it and float out to the top of the key for a 3. In NYK it was a bread and butter play where he would almost ALWAYS slip the screen and the guard would have to pass out of the double to KP who was wide open for 3. 

This play does work though. The problem is that KP always does it. And there has to be some variety, especially in the flow offense. 

I suppose the question could be poised, can KP ever become a strong screen setter? And perhaps IF KP becomes a very real 3 point threat (think 40+%) does the defensive attention he will most definitely draw when he slips the screen, be better than a hard screen he could set in the first place? 

If KP forces the off guard wing to rotate to him being wide open for 3, that leaves the off guard (usually Curry) spotting up for 3, and gives Luka the chance to make his favorite cross court skip pass. That is exactly the kind of rotations you want the defense to be forced into. Choose between a Luka drive, a KP 3, or a Curry 3.

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Has KP regressed because he's still working his way back into it? Or is it because he's being underutilized? I'm not too sure yet. But no matter I'd like to see KP get the ball more and shoot back what he was shooting before these last 3 games.

Man, this is exactly the question I'd like to get to. I asked it in the gamethread to those saying he's not playing in the "flow" of the offense, or is too passive and similar takes. I don't see that at all and would really like an explanation as to what those guys are seeing, with specifics, since I'm watching the same games they are watching. I DO see the ball being worked opposite his side of the court quite a bit, as well as ball handlers not specifically working to get him the ball when he is working to get open. 

I thought at the beginning of the season that we would see a ton more pick and roll/pop with Luka and KP than we are seeing. To answer the OP question, I think that should be the end of game go-to "move" with 3-point shooters (Curry/Brunson/Kleber) and off-ball cutters (DFS/Wright/Powell) doing their thing as another target to go-to in case that play is stymied.

Yeah I don't see what the others are claiming to see where KP isn't playing within the "flow."  To me he isn't getting any established opportunities early on, which leads to him finding his shot from minute 12:00 to 6:00 in the 2nd when Luka is out, which looks like chucking. And lets be real, he does take quite a few of contested shots, but the fact that he's the only real offensive threat when Luka is off the floor, its understandable the defensive attention he receives. 

As to why he doesn't receive those opportunities I don't know. Whether that be by design or lack of, I do notice that guards don't give it to him in the pinch post. Or when they drive it themselves and missing easy mismatches KP has. But even with those blatant examples of KP getting ignored, he's still getting around 15 shot attempts per game these last 3 games. 

I'm leaning more towards a mix of underutilization and him working his way back into game shape as the reasons why KP has regressed a bit from the first 3 games. Its obvious that KP needs to build his stamina a bit more, a point of criticism he's received every year in NYK, which makes me a little doubtful it'll ever happen. And even then it's not like he's gassed (the only time I felt he was truly gassed was the end of the Pelican game). The lack of plays being called for him is the real puzzling thing. 

Carlisle runs the same 3 general motion plays that involve horns at the top of the key, or the classic guard/big pick and roll, or where the ball handler gives a drop off to the 2 guard, who then gets screened by a big (we saw that a lot with THJ/KP/and Brunson last night where THJ drove it every time.) 

I would love for Carlisle to actually take advantage of KP's size and run a lob play for him or just to actually make a point to find him wide open for 3 when he slips every screen. 

But again, its REALLY early to make any hard and fast decisions. So far KP has been playing remarkably well for coming back. 21ppg, 8rpg, and almost 3(!!) bpg, are all-star worthy numbers.

[Lucky Luciano]

Dude can shoot lights out and has such a soft touch there is no reason he's not perfecting the 1 legged Dirk fade away especially now that our beloved GOAT has went home to the heavenly gates of retirement. It would be such a great memorial to see him getting a couple of those off every night!

Side note though I think he can do all of the options above though this one just makes the most sense as well as would add the most happiness lol.

Shot is literally unarguable from a older flat foot Dirk jumping maybe 3 inches off the floor. Porzie is 3 inches taller and can still bounce. It would be impossible to guard and should be a quite easy/ comfortable shot for him.

[Halfnir]

I think after his long break, Kristaps is focusing first to get the defense right. And i think it's the correct decison. He has very different backcourt partners in Dwight, Maxi and Boban and they have to learn who does what on defense. And Kristaps being a defensive ancor is more important to our team than him being an offensive juggernaut.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

He is a high volume shooter. A lot of his offensive game was still lacking as a Knick. He still needs a lot of developing. I don't think it's the rust. He needs to take that next step to become a star kinda like Donovan Mitchell is taking so far this year. I think people had some unrealistic expectations for him based on the hype from New York. His offensive game isn't as developed as KAT, Embiid, AD.

That being said, he's gonna average 22 and 2 blocks even needing a lot of developing. That's pretty crazy. And we have a #1 in Luka.

[ClutchDirk]

I think after his long break, Kristaps is focusing first to get the defense right. And i think it's the correct decison. He has very different backcourt partners in Dwight, Maxi and Boban and they have to learn who does what on defense. And Kristaps being a defensive ancor is more important to our team than him being an offensive juggernaut.

[burekemde]

KP loves to drive the ball left and pullup. If we can isolate him off the right side of the court, and have him drive left, he would be unstoppable.

Just getting more postups on the ride side using the classic Dirk play where a guard cross screens for him can get him so many wide open looks to the basket. 

Last night I felt that KP didn't get many shot attempts, but he ended the game with 14, on efficient shooting! He's getting 16.7 a game this year so far which is more than I thought he was getting. But looking at it from the first 3 games (16, 17,23) Kristaps averaged 26.3ppg, 5.7rpg, and 2.7bpg on 46% FG, 40% from 3, and 72% from the line and averaged 18.7 shot attempts per game. The last three he's been averaging a much reduced 14.7 shot attempts, and consequently his point per game stat has dropped like a rock with KP averaging 14.7ppg, 10.7rpg, and 2.7bpg on 38.6% from the field and 35% from 3. 

Has KP regressed because he's still working his way back into it? Or is it because he's being underutilized? I'm not too sure yet. But no matter I'd like to see KP get the ball more and shoot back what he was shooting before these last 3 games.

Its mainly due to Powell, the guy is not a fit with KP at all, as he often is going to the basket. KP fits very well with Maxi and Boban.

[SportPsychMav]

I think after his long break, Kristaps is focusing first to get the defense right. And i think it's the correct decison. He has very different backcourt partners in Dwight, Maxi and Boban and they have to learn who does what on defense. And Kristaps being a defensive ancor is more important to our team than him being an offensive juggernaut.

I like that he is focusing on defense while luka focusing.
There is a limited amount of energy to spend each game. He is the 2nd option l. Doesn't need to splash 40 a night. Around 20ppg with elite defense is scary already.

[Scott41theMavs]

This has turned into an excellent discussion. Great thread-read, guys.

A question - is a KP jump-shot ever really a "contested shot" when he can just shoot over the top of virtually any defender in the league?

[Dahlsim]

What I'd like to see most from KP on offense is development of a consistent, repeatable Go-To move in and near the paint.
KP needs to find his "Sky Hook". At his size, his Go-To will be unstoppable just like Dirk's One-Legged-Fade whether he uses that or something else.

KP already has a beautiful 3 point stroke in his game so that's something he can just continue to develop to be devastating like a lot of Bigs are doing now.
Dirk started. Guys like Brook Lopez made it a Go-To. Now even guys like Aron Baynes are helping pull wins their team win games with scorching 3's.

Now, KP needs one, two moves at the most that he can just repeat adnausem without caring the defense knows its coming because its unstoppable.
Leave the defender watching and just hoping it doesn't fall.