The X-Factor Tim Hardaway Jr.: DAL to give long term extension?

[ItsGoTime]

Basically, if you want to have a better player, you are looking at super stars. 

Please define superstar.

[omahen]

Please define superstar.

I rather give an example. SG that are imho CLEARLY better than THJ with his current (since he became starter) production are: Harden, Butler, Thompson, Beal, McCollum, Booker, Brown and healthy Oladipo. All past or present all star players. Arguably you could count LaVine (rising star) and Williams (multiple 6th man of the year). All would cost a fortune to get. You can throw in former all star Holliday, who is listed as PG, but could play SG.

I see Fournier, LeVert, Hield or Bogi at same level as THJ.

[Tyler]

Still, certain level of caution should be given, as he is this good just for half a season in his whole career. So, let's not get carried away throwing star money around. And let's not bid against ourselves  I still maintain that contract in the 60 mil for 4 years would be a fair deal for both sides. In order to justify 80 mil, his production in next 4 years would need to further improve.

With standard raises, 4/60 implies a starting salary of $13mm.  That's a 31% pay cut from what he's currently owed next year.  I just don't see that happening.  

IMO, the way he's playing right now there's a good chance his next contract tops his last one (4/71).  Since you mentioned a few player comps, note that Fournier last signed for 5/85 and Hield for 4/94.

[SleepingHero]

IMO, the way he's playing right now there's a good chance his next contract tops his last one (4/71).  Since you mentioned a few player comps, note that Fournier last signed for 5/85 and Hield for 4/94.

I just don't think the market is going to justify paying THJ 20+ million bucks. 

Fournier signed his contract extension in the 2016 market boom that saw insane contracts being handed out to players that clearly didn't deserve it all because every GM figured the cap spike would continue to spike every year.

We now see more and more GM's being as frugal as they can be and only dolling out contracts that are high dollar if they are 1000% win now mode or absolutely necessary. 

Hield's contract didn't come without a battle. There was several instances of Hield going to the press to voice his displeasure with the Kings and how he wanted out had he not gotten a contract worth in excess of 100+ million. Hield even said he saw Jaylen Brown's contract extension and felt that he was deserved at least that since he feels he's a better player. In the end, both parties settled in the middle of 4/94.

THJ isn't on the same level as Hield, and isn't going to command the same market. This summer, there are few teams that have any significant cap space, and those that do I believe will have a tough time buying the idea of throwing 4/80+ million at THJ is a good idea. 

I really do think THJ opts into his last year with the Mavs and the Mavs look to extend him, ala a Dwight Powell move. I think a 2 or 3 year extension around 15-16 per, so lets just say 3/48, last year being a player option.

[omahen]

With standard raises, 4/60 implies a starting salary of $13mm.  That's a 31% pay cut from what he's currently owed next year.  I just don't see that happening. 

It can also be 15 each year or starting with 20 and declining (what Barnes signed). I would prefer the 13 option though. Reasoning behing it:
- still a risk as he only has half of good basketball in his career
- Dallas is an environment where he is winning. Alternative for him, unless Miami offers him a contract, are Charlotte, Detroit and similar types. If he prefers 80 per from such a team - good luck Timmy! Dallas is cherishing him and they turned around his career. One of worst salaries looks pretty decent now.

Since you mentioned a few player comps, note that Fournier last signed for 5/85 and Hield for 4/94.

I am aware of that. They are also more proven and score closer to 20 per game than 15. Hield became a problem only this year. They were also younger when they signed their contracts. Perhaps last year can be more relevant - Bojan Bogdanovic signed 73 mil 4 year deal. He was scoring 18 points per game on higher efficiency at the time.

[Fuerza1]

I really do think THJ opts into his last year with the Mavs and the Mavs look to extend him, ala a Dwight Powell move. I think a 2 or 3 year extension around 15-16 per, so lets just say 3/48, last year being a player option.

That's what I believe will happen, and should happen. THJ is a legit starter, his years in ATL were actually sneaky good. 

I think the jury is still out on whether THJ is a championship level starter though. But you know he can still be a valuable 6th man or you can move him in a couple years if need be.

Personally, I would start the negotiations at $12-13M/yr. Maybe give him 4 years instead of 3.

[Scott41theMavs]

I really do think THJ opts into his last year with the Mavs and the Mavs look to extend him, ala a Dwight Powell move. I think a 2 or 3 year extension around 15-16 per, so lets just say 3/48, last year being a player option.

That's what I believe will happen, and should happen. THJ is a legit starter, his years in ATL were actually sneaky good.

I think the jury is still out on whether THJ is a championship level starter though. But you know he can still be a valuable 6th man or you can move him in a couple years if need be.

Personally, I would start the negotiations at $12-13M/yr. Maybe give him 4 years instead of 3.

I think that THJ's play this year (subtracting the first month) is that of the 4th-best player on a contending team. The Mavs should look at what past recent contenders have paid their 4th-best player and pay THJ accordingly.

[BigDirk41]

I really do think THJ opts into his last year with the Mavs and the Mavs look to extend him, ala a Dwight Powell move. I think a 2 or 3 year extension around 15-16 per, so lets just say 3/48, last year being a player option.

That's what I believe will happen, and should happen. THJ is a legit starter, his years in ATL were actually sneaky good.

I think the jury is still out on whether THJ is a championship level starter though. But you know he can still be a valuable 6th man or you can move him in a couple years if need be.

Personally, I would start the negotiations at $12-13M/yr. Maybe give him 4 years instead of 3.

I think that THJ's play this year (subtracting the first month) is that of the 4th-best player on a contending team. The Mavs should look at what past recent contenders have paid their 4th-best player and pay THJ accordingly.

What is the going rate for a 4th best player because I don't see THJ getting anything less than 15 per year.

[omahen]

What is the going rate for a 4th best player because I don't see THJ getting anything less than 15 per year.

he doesn't have to sign a new contract. If there will be a decent offer, he signs. If not, he takes his option and resigns next season. I don't see a decent offer, based on his PO, being less than 60 mil for 4 years.

[Mapka]

What is the going rate for a 4th best player because I don't see THJ getting anything less than 15 per year.

he doesn't have to sign a new contract. If there will be a decent offer, he signs. If not, he takes his option and resigns next season. I don't see a decent offer, based on his PO, being less than 60 mil for 4 years.

Or every time he sits on the bench, he looks to his right at Dwight Powell and thinks: "Boy does 13mio x 4 sound good."

But to be fair I think he will get his 4x15.

Which is fine by the way. Don't want have to do with anything like a Monta for 7 Mio contract.

Every time we say bargain the player cringes inside.

[Tyler]

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/ex...-extension

[BigDirk41]

THJ isn't going anywhere. Cuban will lock him up long term and the money will probably make a lot of us mad, but I want THJ here. He has thrived.

[matt6715]

I'm assuming an opt-in and extension, but if Dallas wants to keep the powder dry for 2021, THJ might get squeezed out. Fournier is a decent comp for a ceiling contract-wise if you ask me.

[bin610]

Followill said last night that Hardaway has the best 3 point percentage since the new year with 44.5 percent. If we can consistently get anywhere near that level of efficiency from Hardaway I'm all for keeping him. He also plays good defense and always plays hard.

[BigDirk41]

Seriously I can't understand anyone not wanting THJ here at this point. He excels in his role and embraces it. He's a ultimate teammate and plays all out every time he's on the court. He's still young. There's just no way the Mavs are going to let him go.

[omahen]

Seriously I can't understand anyone not wanting THJ here at this point. He excels in his role and embraces it. He's a ultimate teammate and plays all out every time he's on the court. He's still young. There's just no way the Mavs are going to let him go.

I was listening to The Athletic podcast and they quickly touched THJ contract. They said most likely scenario is he opts in. 80 mil for 4 years is a lot of money and might not be on the table this season. On the other hand something in the range of 60 mil for 4 years might make THJ take his option and lift his price with another good season. No one is really losing, if he does that. It is just him taking the risk

[ThisIStheYear]

If he keeps it up, he’s good enough to be the fourth best player on a very good team.  That’s also how he should be paid, like a veteran fourth best player on a championship contender.

[Mapka]

Seriously I can't understand anyone not wanting THJ here at this point. He excels in his role and embraces it. He's a ultimate teammate and plays all out every time he's on the court. He's still young. There's just no way the Mavs are going to let him go.

I was listening to The Athletic podcast and they quickly touched THJ contract. They said most likely scenario is he opts in. 80 mil for 4 years is a lot of money and might not be on the table this season. On the other hand something in the range of 60 mil for 4 years might make THJ take his option and lift his price with another good season. No one is really losing, if he does that. It is just him taking the risk

He is taking a 40mio risk for maybe 20mio? I'm not sure the 80mio will be on the table next year, even if he holds up his play.
The Mavs invest time and resources to have a replacement just in case?

[StepBackJay]

I'm assuming an opt-in and extension, but if Dallas wants to keep the powder dry for 2021, THJ might get squeezed out.  Fournier is a decent comp for a ceiling contract-wise if you ask me.

Both of their contracts were signed years ago though. I would hope that THJ just opts in which would be the most beneficial to him and the Mavs I think  Not many teams will have cap space next summer anyway. I don't know the urgency to extend him just like Powell last summer. I'd rather Mavs keep their powder dry to see if they could find an upgrade.

If Mavs did extend THJ I don't think Mavs could clear a max spot even if they dumped Wright for nothing.

[omahen]

If Mavs did extend THJ I don't think Mavs could clear a max spot even if they dumped Wright for nothing.

Of course they can. Why do you assume THJ is unmovable if you extend him? If Giannis comes knocking, you trade any 2 man combination of Wright, Powell and THJ to get to max spot. I don't think there will be any other max player. Is 29 year old Oladipo a max player?