AROUND the NBA:

[CooPerFan]

I really don't see how they compare to be truthful. I don't adhere to the notion that Flagg is better all-around. They say the NBA has become a "positionless league," but one is a 7'5 do-everything Center, and the other is a 6'8 SF/PF with a similar skill set. The difference being, Wemby does everything Flagg does at 7'5 even better.  He had 39 pts, shot 3-5 from 3, 15 rebs, and 5 blks last night, in a 115-108 win to take back home court.

Yeah wemby had a great game last night. But the problem with him is consistency on offense. Normally he’ll put a stinker after a monster game.Let see if he can put another monster game in game 4 and the rest of the series/ playoffs.


Cooper still a rookie. Let see how he performs next season. Whether he make a big leap or not.

[mvossman]

FIFY.

Even his rookie season, he was greatly limited in availabiity. That was his "good" year, and he only played in 2/3 of the games, and less than 1300 minutes (of the ~4000  minutes in a season). That year he had 4 separate multi-game stretches of being out, of 4, 5, 7, and 8. It got worse in year 2 (3, 4, and 37 game stretches missed). And even more limited this past season, where he barely played at all the whole season (only 115 minutes stretched over 7 games). 

The fact that Lively is a plus player when available doesn't really do anything for the team, when he's so unavailable. You (and everyone else who is seeing him as the answer to depend on) are indeed NOT basing that on what he is actually doing, but on what he in theory could do - if he played. It's the Oden thing all over again. We like the idea of what Lively can do, but are ignoring the reality of how infrequently he really does it.

Your analysis of his first season is ignoring the fact that he played 21 out of 22 playoff games, the most important time to be healthy.

You do realize that "I'm not giving up on him yet" and "seeing him as the answer to depend on" are two different things, right?

[dirkfansince1998]

Yeah wemby had a great game last night. But the problem with him is consistency on offense. Normally he’ll put a stinker after a monster game.Let see if he can put another monster game in game 4 and the rest of the series/ playoffs.


Cooper still a rookie. Let see how he performs next season. Whether he make a big leap or not.

Bottom line is that even when Wemby is 5/17 from the field he is arguably the most impactful player on the floor. That's how good his defense is. Gobert is having a good playoff run. Had a good game yesterday. Compared to Wemby he looked like Dwight Powell. That's the gap between Wemby and the 2nd best rim protector in the league.
Flagg being more well-rounded or versatile isn't enough to make up for this kind of impact on the defensive end.

[windjc]

Bottom line is that even when Wemby is 5/17 from the field he is arguably the most impactful player on the floor. That's how good his defense is. Gobert is having a good playoff run. Had a good game yesterday. Compared to Wemby he looked like Dwight Powell. That's the gap between Wemby and the 2nd best rim protector in the league.
Flagg being more well-rounded or versatile isn't enough to make up for this kind of impact on the defensive end.

Time to change your username.

[dirkfansince1998]

Time to change your username.

Obviously much better to pretend that Wemby isn't as good as he is. Especially if you want to beat him at some point in the not so distant future.
Never understood why blind homerism is needed to be a "good fan". But it's not the first time and it won't be the last time that I run into these kind of issues. Still remember the backlash I received after I stated that the Celtics are a much better team than the Mavs prior to the finals in 2024. Or when I dared to suggest that Luka isn't the best player in the league. At least that shouldn't be an issue right now. Seems like the homer crowd moved on and is ready to crown a new king.

[windjc]

Obviously much better to pretend that Wemby isn't as good as he is. Especially if you want to beat him at some point in the not so distant future.
Never understood why blind homerism is needed to be a "good fan". But it's not the first time and it won't be the last time that I run into these kind of issues. Still remember the backlash I received after I stated that the Celtics are a much better team than the Mavs prior to the finals in 2024. Or when I dared to suggest that Luka isn't the best player in the league. At least that shouldn't be an issue right now. Seems like the homer crowd moved on and is ready to crown a new king.

Comparing a guy in year 3 to a rookie this short into either’s career and crowning the former as the best is not realism. It’s adoring. Lots of tall dudes with short careers in NBA history. Let’s talk a little further down the road. You can still change your name back if you get it wrong.

[ACMFFL]

But why are we comparing 22-years old Wemby with the youngest player in NBA today? Comparison should be with rookie Wemby and in this regard Coop holds his own pretty well.

[dirkfansince1998]

Comparing a guy in year 3 to a rookie this short into either’s career and crowning the former as the best is not realism. It’s adoring. Lots of tall dudes with short careers in NBA history. Let’s talk a little further down the road. You can still change your name back if you get it wrong.

So you agree that as it is Wemby is on a completly different level right now and that any prediction about the future is mostly about hopes and dreams of a Mavs/Flagg homer. I guess that's progress. Maybe you aren't a lost cause.

[dirkfansince1998]

But why are we comparing 22-years old Wemby with the youngest player in NBA today? Comparison should be with rookie Wemby and in this regard Coop holds his own pretty well.

21/11/4 in less than 30 minutes. nearly 5 stocks. 2nd in DPOY voting, 1st team all defense. That was rookie Wemby. Cooper was great. Not as good as rookie Wemby. The main advantage that windjc already mentioned is that Flagg doesn't come with the same injury concerns. In his rookie season Wemby was on a minutes restriction and he missed half of his sophomore season.

I honestly don't get why people feel the need to even make the comparisation. Flagg can be great without being compared to one of the biggest freaks bball has ever seen.

[ACMFFL]

21/11/4 in less than 30 minutes. nearly 5 stocks. 2nd in DPOY voting, 1st team all defense. That was rookie Wemby. Cooper was great. Not as good as rookie Wemby. The main advantage that windjc already mentioned is that Flagg doesn't come with the same injury concerns. In his rookie season he was on a minutes restriction and he missed half of his sophomore season.

On the defensive end Wemby was clearly more impactful but on offense I think rookie Coop has the edge, he's a way better passer and shot creator. Overall it's still rookie Wemby but gap isn't that big at all imo.
Also Coop came into league one year younger and way less experienced at pro level than rookie Wemby was.

I think it's normal to compare Cooper with the best rookies of the most recent years.

[dirkfansince1998]

On the defensive end Wemby was clearly more impactful but on offense I think rookie Coop has the edge, he's a way better passer and shot creator. Overall it's still rookie Wemby but gap isn't that big at all imo.
Also Coop came into league one year younger and way less experienced at pro level than rookie Wemby was.

The point that I have been trying to make that people seem to miss. Clearly more impactful on defense translates to clearly more impactful overall. Flagg would have to be so much better on offense to close the gap that I just cannot imagine a way for him to do it. Would have to assume that Flagg can have a bigger impact on offense than peak Jokic and that's unlikely.

[ACMFFL]

The point that I have been trying to make that people seem to miss. Clearly more impactful on defense translates to clearly more impactful overall. Flagg would have to be so much better on offense to close the gap that I just cannot imagine a way for him to do it. Would have to assume that Flagg can have a bigger impact on offense than peak Jokic and that's unlikely.

Well, I'm just talking in regard of the comparison between their rookie seasons, Wemby had the most impactful season but overall gap isn't that big imo.

[dirkfansince1998]

Well, I'm just talking in regard of the comparison between their rookie seasons, Wemby had the most impactful season but overall gap isn't that big imo.

Rookie Wemby had DPOY level impact on one end. Cannot fault Flagg for the Mavs team defense but he hasn't been anything special on defense this season. On offense their boxscore stats are almost identical. Flagg slightly less efficient scorer. Wemby more turnovers.  Flagg gets a bonus because he created more for himself. But even if I have him slightly above rookie Wemby on offense it's not enough to make it a close overall.

[Jmaciscool]

I love Flagg and think he's going to have an amazing career. Ecstatic the Mavs were able to draft him.

But if I could be guaranteed both to have 100% health their entire careers I take Wemby 10 of 10 times. That's nothing against Flagg, Wemby's just something unreal.

[Smitty]

I love Flagg and think he's going to have an amazing career. Ecstatic the Mavs were able to draft him.

But if I could be guaranteed both to have 100% health their entire careers I take Wemby 10 of 10 times. That's nothing against Flagg, Wemby's just something unreal.

Yeah but availability is the best ability. If I were a betting man I’d bet on Flagg having the longer, better career.

[hakeemfaan]

Wemby has the chance to be the best player ever in the history of the game if he stays healthy. He is just unreal. The health is a concern though with what he went through last year. I am just happy we have one of the few other young players, who is legitimately looked at as a cornerstone and potential great, even if he is not Wemby (Who is? There won't be another 7'6" player anytime soon who not only plays hard on both ends, but takes so many big shots late in the game and makes them).

From where this franchise was, before the lottery gods decided to show some sympathy to the battered fanbase, I will take it.

[CooPerFan]

Bottom line is that even when Wemby is 5/17 from the field he is arguably the most impactful player on the floor. That's how good his defense is. Gobert is having a good playoff run. Had a good game yesterday. Compared to Wemby he looked like Dwight Powell. That's the gap between Wemby and the 2nd best rim protector in the league.
Flagg being more well-rounded or versatile isn't enough to make up for this kind of impact on the defensive end.

Yup agree. But he needs those kinds of games offensively  like last night to be in the all time great conversations and to be able to carry the spurs into multiple titles. He needs to be great offensively every game.

[CooPerFan]

Wemby has the chance to be the best player ever in the history of the game if he stays healthy.  He is just unreal. The health is a concern though with what he went through last year.  I am just happy we have one of the few other young players, who is legitimately looked at as a cornerstone and potential great, even if he is not Wemby (Who is? There won't be another 7'6" player anytime soon who not only plays hard on both ends,  but takes so many big shots late in the game and makes them).

From where this franchise was, before the lottery gods decided to show some sympathy to the battered fanbase, I will take it.

Wemby is great but low BBIQ. Obviously he should take more midrange and floaters on his offense but for some reason he doesnt want to. If wemby realize he needs to take more midrange shots and play like Dirk. He’ll be unstoppable.

[dirkfansince1998]

Harden scoring on three consecutive possessions to close out the game wasn't on my bingo card...

[hakeemfaan]

Wemby is great but low BBIQ. Obviously he should take more midrange and floaters on his offense but for some reason he doesnt want to. If wemby realize he needs to take more  midrange shots and play like Dirk. He’ll be unstoppable.

That's just today's game.  Everyone wants to be Steph. Luka is a decade into this league and still hasn't understood that his step back 3s are the worst part of his game, and that he'll be much more difficult to guard if he just focused on his midrange game.  

That doesn't mean low BBIQ.  You can't just talk in extremes.  Both Wemby and Luka have high BBIQ. It's just that they've grown up in a generation where every kid wants to shoot that 3.  As long as they're not overdoing it, it's ok.