2024 Playoffs- 4th Round: Boston Celtics - Dallas Mavericks

[Winter]

From our last regular season Boston game...

DJJ did not start (and only played 7 minutes I think).
KP made several 3-point shots.
Their 3-point % for that game was 48%
Hardy was barely in that game
None of our players outside Luka shot very well

Hard to say what I would change from the last Boston game besides giving DJJ the start and more minutes. Clearly our perimeter defense was not up to par. We were in the middle of the worst losing streak of the season (5 out 6).

[BigDirk41]

What would you guys take from the last game we played against Boston? We had the same team as now and they did beat us badly and we couldn't guard the 3-point line. I know we are a different team now with a better understanding of assignment. Based on this, what would you do differently from that game in these finals?

Personally, I don't take anything from the previous game. The new guys were getting acclimated. We need to do exactly what got us here and continue to defend the 3 point line well, control the boards, win the battle in the paint offensively ,and let Luka/Kyrie cook.

[mvossman]

If this is an argument that Boston has more talent, and if I’m the homer, we are ships passing in the night, my friend. 

Holiday is far and away the best player on your list. But I’m not convinced he’s their #3. More likely that guy is Jaylen Brown. 

Is White better than DJJ? Probably. But not by a mile. 

Horford is a great player. I just don’t think the old man can play 30 mins against our young, fast bigs. 

Is KP even a positive piece? I’d rather have Dinwiddie. Guess we’ll see.

I don't know about a mile, but White is significantly better than DJJ.  

Whether Brown is 2nd or 3nd best player, he is significantly better than PJ.

KP is definitely a positive piece, especially on that roster.  His health is a huge factor for this series.

[dirkfansince1998]

3-point shooting is going to decide it from a Celtics perspective. If they reach their regular season averages (16.5 made 3s. Shooting 38.8%) the Mavs are in a rough spot.
But they are down to 14.6 made 3s on 36.8% shooting in the playoffs. Celtics had a losing record when they made less than 13 threes in the regular season.

[The Jom]

I don't know about a mile, but White is significantly better than DJJ.  

Whether Brown is 2nd or 3nd best player, he is significantly better than PJ.

KP is definitely a positive piece, especially on that roster.  His health is a huge factor for this series.

I don’t understand this. Are we arguing? If you’re comparing talents, you don’t start with the #3 or 4 guys. 

The logic I’m seeing in this thread: Who has the best third best player? Boston. And DW is good. So they have way more talent than the Mavs.

[Chicagojk]

What would you guys take from the last game we played against Boston? We had the same team as now and they did beat us badly and we couldn't guard the 3-point line. I know we are a different team now with a better understanding of assignment. Based on this, what would you do differently from that game in these finals?

Tough to decide either game we played because we are a different team now.  I left both games though thinking we were not in the same league as the Celtics.

The first game was with our old roster.  I believe we were relatively healthy.   I wanted to use that game as a measuring stick game.  At that time, I did not think we were a finals contender.   The end score was not a blowout but I left that game thinking we were not close to Boston.  If i remember correctly, Luka had a rough shooting night.  Either that game or the one in Boston, Jaylon Brown went right at Luka on offense too.  

The second game happened after our trade.  We were in a rough spot though.  Getting blown out at Indy, Losing on a buzzer beater to Cleveland, beating Toronto, and then losing at home against an injured Sixers and losing to the pacers again.   Boston came out hot, if I remember, and was hitting everything.   They looked like a superior team.  Dallas fought back and got it within 3 in the late third quarter after a Lively alleyoop.   After a timeout the Celtics went on a run and the game was over pretty quickly.  Up until that point, I thought the Celtics were the much better team but the Mavs stayed close for almost 3 quarters.

[Chicagojk]

3-point shooting is going to decide it from a Celtics perspective. If they reach their regular season averages (16.5 made 3s. Shooting 38.8%) the Mavs are in a rough spot.
But they are down to 14.6 made 3s on 36.8% shooting in the playoffs. Celtics had a losing record when they made less than 13 threes in the regular season.

I think this is probably true.

[Chicagojk]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2024/6/3/2...yson-tatum

[mvossman]

I don’t understand this. Are we arguing? If you’re comparing talents, you don’t start with the #3 or 4 guys. 

The logic I’m seeing in this thread: Who has the best third best player? Boston. And DW is good. So they have way more talent than the Mavs.

I have already gone on record saying that best player is the most important in a playoff comparison and I don't think these teams are too far apart.  That being said, it feels like you are minimizing just how good Boston 3, 4 and 5 players are.  That does matter.  We have already seen that Luka can't do it by himself.  He needs help.  We are in the finals because he finally got a competent roster behind him.  Tatum is not Luka, but the help he has is crazy good.

[BigDirk41]

Does anyone think they might try to guard Luka one on one and let him score 50 every game so the other guys aren't involved much? Nobody has really tried that this post season?

[Chicagojk]

I want to give DJJ props too. If you rate the top 10 starters in the series, DJJ is probably # 9 or #10. We have heard a lot of talk about how the J's can defend and the Celtics have 4 guys to throw at Luka and Kyrie. That is true. But lets not bypass DJJ and PJ on defense. DJJ has had three series guarding almost unguardable players. Outside of SGA, he has done really well. I could say he guarded OKC well too....just need to give OKC props. While Luka and Kyrie will need to fight for their points, lets not assume Brown and Tatum are going to be on easy street for the series.

[michaeltex]

I think a big difference is that DAL has just won two series that were the equivalent of WWE matches, BOS not so much. Not getting mauled by the likes of Dort, KAT and Edwards is going to make Luka feel like he's playing a practice game.

Plus, I think DAL is getting a pretty good handle on perimeter defense. Deny/contest the 3pt line and feed drives into the teeth of our shot blockers.

BTW, doesn't KP have a history of problems with smaller, active defenders? Just trying to remember what limited his effectiveness in DAL (other than the injuries).

[dirkfansince1998]

I think a big difference is that DAL has just won two series that were the equivalent of WWE matches, BOS not so much. Not getting mauled by the likes of Dort, KAT and Edwards is going to make Luka feel like he's playing a practice game.

Plus, I think DAL is getting a pretty good handle on perimeter defense. Deny/contest the 3pt line and feed drives into the teeth of our shot blockers.

BTW, doesn't KP have a history of problems with smaller, active defenders? Just trying to remember what limited his effectiveness in DAL (other than the injuries).

Holiday is build like Dort. With quicker hands and better bball IQ. Brown also has a big body. Not sure if it is getting any easier. Probably won't see as many cheap shots from them. But just looking at the ability to defend the perimeter the Celtics are better than any team the Mavs faced so far.
Based on the regular season KPs post game looks way better than it used to be. But his playoff sample size is super small and in the first round against Miami he didn't look comfortable with the ball in his hands against smaller defenders.
Also kinda crazy that even though KP was drafted in 2015 he only played in 14 playoff games so far. Less than Lively in his rookie season.

[mvossman]

I think a big difference is that DAL has just won two series that were the equivalent of WWE matches, BOS not so much. Not getting mauled by the likes of Dort, KAT and Edwards is going to make Luka feel like he's playing a practice game.

Plus, I think DAL is getting a pretty good handle on perimeter defense. Deny/contest the 3pt line and feed drives into the teeth of our shot blockers.

BTW, doesn't KP have a history of problems with smaller, active defenders? Just trying to remember what limited his effectiveness in DAL (other than the injuries).

Historically KP has had an issue with smaller defenders, but recently he has been able to punish that in the post.

[SleepingHero]

Now this stat shocked the hell out of me.

[dirkfansince1998]

Does anyone think they might try to guard Luka one on one and let him score 50 every game so the other guys aren't involved much? Nobody has really tried that this post season?

I think that is how they will start. Brown and Holiday taking turns. Switching the pick and roll unless it involves the big. Mavs need the best iso scoring version of Luka. And most importantly the best midrange and 3-point shooting version.
Up to Luka to force them to double. Also up to the coaches to come up with stuff that creates easier matchups for Luka. Could turn into a chess match. Mavs trying to force a switch onto Horford/KP. Celtics trying to preswitch/pre rotate to protect their bigs.

[HoosierDaddyKidd]

https://sports.yahoo.com/2024-nba-finals...28992.html


Ky and Kristaps were nearly traded for each other.

[HoosierDaddyKidd]

https://x.com/ClutchPoints/status/179763...wcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshype.com%2Frumors%2F


Is Tatum not a top 5 player in the league? Zach Lowe doesn't think so.

[HoosierDaddyKidd]

Now this stat shocked the hell out of me.

It's an oddity since the rook Lively has played all his this season.  Ten of KP's games were with Dallas in 19-20 and 20-21.

[Winter]

Iztok Franko
@iztok_franko
·
There were 7 teams in the regular season that won 50 games or more: BOS, OKC, DEN, MIN, LAC, NYK, DAL.

OKC had best 13-6 (68.4%) record against 50+ win teams. MIN and MIL were 12-7 (63.1%), BOS 9-6 (60.0%).

DAL is 12-5 (70.5%) in the playoffs, playing just 50+ win teams.