Trade & FA 2023-24: Sexton On the Market? | ORL Likes Hartenstein?

[SleepingHero]

Him and a rookie make less than THJ/Green? Who would be more productive next season? His contract is value compared to his production. Nobody says he needs to start, but he can easily play 32-34 MPG in our current set-up, especially if he replaces THJ and Green. He´ll also help keep Luka and Kyrie fresher.

This is such an easy sell. Be our 6th man, playing for a legit contender for the next two years. In two years we literally  flip you and Kyrie. You make 45M, Kyrie makes 25M. You start next to Luka, Kyrie comes off the bench as a 6th man killer. That is such an easy sell to the player. Convincing Portland will be the problem.

Simons stats don´t show him as a bad defensive player. In 2022 and 2023 the Blazers on/off was + 6.9 on the defensive end, + 16.8 on/off overall. He averages almost 6 assists. He´s nearly a career 40% 3pt and 90% FT shooter, three majors weaknesses of this team. He has a quick release and he is fast. More pluses on a team struggling to create 1 on 1 looks. Plus if you look at his highlight reel, you´ll see a high degree of difficulty and clutch shooting. He´s very similar to Lillard in that regard.

You don´t mess with this starting line-up for now, but you need to find a real difference maker offensively that gives you some strategic flexibility. You won´t get a two-way player with a guaranteed 20 PPG with our assets. We need a guy that can produce 20 points regularly.

You do realize that Simons has already played as a 6th man on a competitive team and he did not like said role? He said as such in many interviews.

[Mikelorenzo]

I think Lavine could work...
1 finally starts the season healthy, and that guy, although overpaid, is allstar level.

2 motivated, playing to win, with a lower offensive load and within a good defensive system, has all the tools...good size, Athletics.

3 its commercial value is on the floor..

4 KI seems happy in Dallas, but this year it's basically expiring, it would be life insurance .

5 of us have looked very good, playing with 3 guards (Luka/SD/Jalen) in that role Zach fits even better, since he is a good player off the ball and has averaged +4 assists in recent years

THJ(Exp)+Raptors SRP to Raptors or (Pistons)
JGreen to Hornets
Maxi/Hardy/Mavs25 to Bulls
Lavine+ SRP(Hornets) to Mavs.

RAPTORS get shots, recover their SRP (It will be high, in a good Draft) and move their space to next year..
HORNETS wanted Green in the PJ trade, take it almost for free..
BULLS.. They get massive savings, a young player and an FRP..

Send Powell+SRP someone's space, allows us to make a decent offer to DJJ

KI/Exum
Lavine/Lawson
Luka/DJJ
PJ/O-Max
Gafford/Lively

reach the final, I suppose it will attract some veteran ring hunter

[HAguiar95]

I really don't think adding another one-way scorer to our starting lineup is the way to go. We need a guy that's confortable coming off the bench, can play with both Kyrie and Luka, and generates loooks for himself and others. That eliminates guys that won't buy into this role like Herro, Lavine, etc. IMO the guy that fit what I'd want for our bench microwave would be Brogdon or McCollum.

A sneaky target I have since they got eliminated is Middleton. Played great in their series without Giannis and did what he could.

Green/Hardaway/'25 1st/'26 swap would be my offer for Middleton.

Hard to see MIL settling for this, but they could turn fillers/#23/#33/'25 DAL 1st into better fitting players for Giannis/Lillard.

Doncic/Exum
Irving/Hardy
Middleton/TMLE/Lawson
Washington/Kleber/Prosper
Lively/Gafford/Powell

We have to rely on our youth, but I'd really trust this core for a re-run.

[RGP1981]

Doncic/Exum
Irving/Hardy
Middleton/TMLE/Lawson
Washington/Kleber/Prosper
Lively/Gafford/Powell

So with this lineup... who's playing defense on Shai, Antman, Booker/Beal, Fox, Morant, Jalen Brown, etc?

TBH, I'd rather go with Patrick Williams than Middleton in a lineup like this... because PWill is better suited to play defense on positions 2-3-4 (although he will have issues with the really quick perimeter guys too).

Anyway, I like the Celtics approach better... i.e., having 2x physically strong, 6'4"-6'6", two-way combo guards who can create, score, shoot, defend.

- Jrue, White, Luka, PJW, Lively/Gafford

Mavericks can't get those two guys of course, just listing to ask... how good does that lineup look?

Or stick with Luka/Kyrie duo but add a 3rd scorer to come off the bench to spell either of them (such as Coby White).

- Kyrie, DJJ, Luka, PJW, Lively/Gafford
- Coby, DJJ, Luka, PJW, Lively/Gafford
- Kyrie, Coby, DJJ, PJW, Lively/Gafford

[Mavs2021]

You do realize that Simons has already played as a 6th man on a competitive team and he did not like said role? He said as such in many interviews.

I saw his most exit interview, where he looked depressed and said he is sick and tired of losing after finishing the season 6-27 with 14 DNPs Tank. That´s step one to give us leverage. Unfortunately he has two years left on his contract. Plus they have Henderson and Sharpe, so that means somebody on that team will come off the bench, too. Difference is we are a championship contender.

[F Gump]

Two-way players are the only real way to upgrade. Adding an opposite side of the platoon (offense for defense) is not, as you are just swapping out one deficiency for another. And the Mavs are already well-supplied with one-way players.

[Mavs2021]

Two-way players are the only real way to upgrade. Adding an opposite side of the platoon (offense for defense) is not, as you are just swapping out one deficiency for another. And the Mavs are already well-supplied with one-way players.

No you are balancing out a roster that is short of play-making and scoring. You also replace two players in THJ/Green that played neither defense nor offense for most of the play-offs.  I like two way players, too. You have four first round picks and a lottery talent player to swap for Mikael Bridges.

[LukaMVP]

just checked the trades through which we built the 2011 championship team and the trades we made in recent years, and found some interesting similarities in terms of trade partners.

nets: big trade that gave us our 2nd best player (Kidd and Kyrie)
Charlotte: guy who improved our D dramatically (TC and PJ)
Washington: solid role player (Lincoln and gafford)

it might be a bit superstitious but it gives some clue which team we shall seek a trade with. we got Marion from Toronto. we were very close to getting Siakam at a time but got outbidded by pacers. Siakam and OG would have been great but their price tags were just beyond our affordability, knowing each guy would have cost more than PJ and Gafford combined. Olynyk is a good and reasonable choice imho. solid big who plays hard on both ends, with shooting range and decent ball distribution, an absolute upgrade over Maxi.

[HAguiar95]

So with this lineup... who's playing defense on Shai, Antman, Booker/Beal, Fox, Morant, Jalen Brown, etc?

TBH, I'd rather go with Patrick Williams than Middleton in a lineup like this... because PWill is better suited to play defense on positions 2-3-4 (although he will have issues with the really quick perimeter guys too).

Anyway, I like the Celtics approach better... i.e., having 2x physically strong, 6'4"-6'6", two-way combo guards who can create, score, shoot, defend.

- Jrue, White, Luka, PJW, Lively/Gafford

Mavericks can't get those two guys of course, just listing to ask... how good does that lineup look?

Or stick with Luka/Kyrie duo but add a 3rd scorer to come off the bench to spell either of them (such as Coby White).

- Kyrie, DJJ, Luka, PJW, Lively/Gafford
- Coby, DJJ, Luka, PJW, Lively/Gafford
- Kyrie, Coby, DJJ, PJW, Lively/Gafford

To answer your question, probably Irving on guards and Washington on forwards. Obviously no one is stopping them, it is a collective team job.

Going for Williams, who's creating offense besides Luka or Kyrie? Another "3&D" player wouldn't solve our offensive issues. Middleton could play the SG along with Doncic or Kyrie with Jones coming off the bench to fill the SF void.

The 3rd scorer I'd love to add are Brogdon and McCollum, White is on the rise, probably expensive and wouldn't like coming off the bench (same with Lavine/Herro).

Maybe a Hunter/Bogdanovic for Kleber/Green/Hardaway/'25 DAL 1st solves some of our issues? Still like Middleton better as a 3rd scorer and long enough to not get bullied on D.

Doncic/Exum
Irving/Bogdanovic
Hunter/Jones?
Washington/Prosper
Lively/Gafford

[Chicagojk]

I don't get the small high priced bench guard trade thoughts. That is Hardy next year. It is his year to sink or swim. I would strongly consider being proactive and sign him to an extension. He is an NBA player. Could be a good one if he continues to fine tune his game. Not a certainty. Give him some security and get a discount by signing him early.

Mavs need to be on a look out for 2-3 things. Another PF (maxi replacement) and probably a starting level wing. If Omax is a player, you may only need one of the prior. And they need a 4th/5th guard who can run an offense. The fourth guard is probably a minimum guy. The Maxi replacement and starting wing could be one player, but that is a real tough player to find. Mavs need to keep their assets and find this player. It probably won't be this year. If not, I would look for an older veteran who can score a little from the wing to be a stop gap.

[mvossman]

Him and a rookie make less than THJ/Green? Who would be more productive next season? His contract is value compared to his production. Nobody says he needs to start, but he can easily play 32-34 MPG in our current set-up, especially if he replaces THJ and Green. He´ll also help keep Luka and Kyrie fresher.

This is such an easy sell. Be our 6th man, playing for a legit contender for the next two years. In two years we literally  flip you and Kyrie. You make 45M, Kyrie makes 25M. You start next to Luka, Kyrie comes off the bench as a 6th man killer. That is such an easy sell to the player. Convincing Portland will be the problem.

Simons stats don´t show him as a bad defensive player. In 2022 and 2023 the Blazers on/off was + 6.9 on the defensive end, + 16.8 on/off overall. He averages almost 6 assists. He´s nearly a career 40% 3pt and 90% FT shooter, three majors weaknesses of this team. He has a quick release and he is fast. More pluses on a team struggling to create 1 on 1 looks. Plus if you look at his highlight reel, you´ll see a high degree of difficulty and clutch shooting. He´s very similar to Lillard in that regard.

You don´t mess with this starting line-up for now, but you need to find a real difference maker offensively that gives you some strategic flexibility. You won´t get a two-way player with a guaranteed 20 PPG with our assets. We need a guy that can produce 20 points regularly.

By cost I am mostly referring to asset cost.  You are sending out our last two firsts for a 6th man who likely will not be excited to play that role.  But honestly, I don't know why you are comparing him to Timmy (plus an MLE contract).  Everyone hates Timmy's contract and he is 10 mil more.

[SleepingHero]

Honestly I know the Knicks would never go for this, but a guy that I want pretty bad is Donte Divencenzo

He'd fit so well here as that 6th man sniper. Maybe they're desperate to keep Hartenstein and want to move off Bojan's salary and there is something we can conjure up with Bojan+Divencenzo around Green+THJ (I know the salary savings aren't huge, I just want Divencenzo)

[mvossman]

I don't get the small high priced bench guard trade thoughts.  That is Hardy next year.  It is his year to sink or swim.  I would strongly consider being proactive and sign him to an extension.  He is an NBA player.  Could be a good one if he continues to fine tune his game.  Not a certainty.  Give him some security and get a discount by signing him early. 

Mavs need to be on a look out for 2-3 things.  Another PF (maxi replacement) and probably a starting level wing.  If Omax is a player, you may only need one of the prior.  And they need a 4th/5th  guard who can run an offense.  The fourth guard is probably a minimum guy.  The Maxi replacement and starting wing could be one player, but that is a real tough player to find.  Mavs need to keep their assets and find this player.  It probably won't be this year.  If not, I would look for an older veteran who can score a little from the wing to be a stop gap.

A realistic scenario might be to send Green + pick for Caruso.  Then stretch waive Timmy.  Between the two we should be able to get close to full MLE for DJJ.  Caruso adds better shooting and some additional playmaking to the starting lineup and DJJ becomes your primary bench forward.  Then you see what you get from Maxi/Omax/Hardy/Exum.

[dirkfansince1998]

A realistic scenario might be to send Green + pick for Caruso.  Then stretch waive Timmy.  Between the two we should be able to get close to full MLE for DJJ.  Caruso adds better shooting and some additional playmaking to the starting lineup and DJJ becomes your primary bench forward.  Then you see what you get from Maxi/Omax/Hardy/Exum.

If the Mavs send out a bigger package for a starting caliber player I would prefer to go for a bigger wing/forward. As great as Caruso is DJJ and PJ have proven that bigger guys can also defend the best opposing guards. The way the Mavs overload on defense size/length is super valuable. Bigger guys in the gaps. Covering more ground. Offering more resistance at the rim.
Would also solve the Maxi replacement issue. Allow them to play PJ as the small ball center if the need arises.

[mvossman]

If the Mavs send out a bigger package for a starting caliber player I would prefer to go for a bigger wing/forward. As great as Caruso is DJJ and PJ have proven that bigger guys can also defend the best opposing guards. The way the Mavs overload on defense size/length is super valuable. Bigger guys in the gaps. Covering more ground. Offering more resistance at the rim.
Would also solve the Maxi replacement issue. Allow them to play PJ as the small ball center if the need arises.

I don't disagree, but not sure who that player would be?  For the same package I would rather have Caruso than Dorian (who I loved here).  I would also argue there are some exceptions to that rule.  There are guys that can guard bigger players like Jrue and VanVleet.  I think Caruso fits that category.  Other players that have been brought up like Hunter are not in same category defensively.  Its not going to be easy to find a big two way wing for a young player on a neutral contract and a crappy first.  No interest in Wiggins.

[Mavs2021]

By cost I am mostly referring to asset cost.  You are sending out our last two firsts for a 6th man who likely will not be excited to play that role.  But honestly, I don't know why you are comparing him to Timmy (plus an MLE contract).  Everyone hates Timmy's contract and he is 10 mil more.

He´s as much a 6th man as Terry was on the Mavs or Ginobili on the Spurs. He´s a starter coming off the bench, who´ll eventually become a starter. He´s also just turned 25 last week. So yes it´s two first round picks, but it´s for a player you can retain for 7-8 years with re-trade value . When you talk about guys like Middleton or Harris, you add a player that has zero re-sign or trade value. We have done exceptionally well to find young pieces like Lively, Gafford or Washington, whose timelines sync with Luka, and that´s the reason we can afford to give up the picks. Our next target must also be in line with Luka, so he can replace Kyrie in two years. Long may the healthy and sane Kyrie last, but in two years, he´ll be 34. Even worse he might opt out and who knows what happens, if the Mavs hesitate on at a three year extension for 34 year old Kyrie.

It doesn´t have to be Simons, but it has to be somebody that can smooth the transition to the next iteration of the Mavs, so preferably 26 or younger. If they don´t find a second long-term scorer/play-maker, they are one Doncic injury away from converting high lottery picks in 2027 etc.

[SleepingHero]

Maybe OMAX is that guy that will take the starting mantle from DJJ next year!!

[Branduil]

Here's a "buy low" trade idea: Deandre Hunter. He came into the league as the "ideal" two-way wing player, but since signing his big extension has been a huge disappointment for Atlanta. You could try to trade THJ and Green for him if you believe that Kidd could get him playing defense again and actually earning his contract.

[SleepingHero]

@TheDunkCentral
Klay Thompson has unfollowed the Warriors on Instagram and deleted all Warriors-related content from his page

[Luka77]

Everyone that says you can't play Kyrie-Simons-Luka together

How does these lineups match up against each other offensively and defensively:

6'4 Hoilday-6'2 Kyrie
6'4 White-6'3 Simons
6'6 Brown-6'7 Doncic

Im not seeing the big disadvantage.

Don't tell me a Kyrie, Simons, Luka lineup couldn't compete with that lineup.