Trade & FA 2023-24: Sexton On the Market? | ORL Likes Hartenstein?

[BigDirk41]

I know it was an unpopular idea this tdl (and I was a vocal detractor of it too), but the  THJ+Green for Andrew Wiggins trade might've been the difference this series. Maybe the Mavs revisit this summer.

Yeah I guess I forgot about that. Wiggins is definitely way more useful than THJ and Green.

[BigDirk41]

Yeah I guess I forgot about that. Wiggins is definitely way more useful than THJ and Green.

Is there a way to get Wiggins and Draymond? That's an all move and a lot of defense and playmaking.

[SwisherPrice]

I want to say we are seeing THJ for the last time in a Mavs uniform but I'm not entirely sure. They will definitely try to shop him but if they don't get anything decent back then I could see them just keeping him around for 1 final season and let his contract expire.

In fact, I feel more confident that Green will be shipped out first as they can probably get some decent value back, either in the form of a player or better contract. But ideally, THJ and Green should be packaged together.

[KillerLeft]

I want to say we are seeing THJ for the last time in a Mavs uniform but I'm not entirely sure. They will definitely try to shop him but if they don't get anything decent back then I could see them just keeping him around for 1 final season and let his contract expire.

In fact, I feel more confident that Green will be shipped out first as they can probably get some decent value back, either in the form of a player or better contract. But ideally, THJ and Green should be packaged together.

I have a feeling they’re both gone.

[chaparral]

I have a feeling they’re both gone.

Yes, I agree, both THJ and Green should be moved.  But please include Kleber in this thinking...  Also, I'm going to keep Exum and Hardy only because they are cheap.

As for Jones - not going to bust the bank to resign him or move assets to do so.

[SwisherPrice]

I'm tired of the Maxi Kleber Experience too but until the Mavs have a big man who can shoot threes and play okay defense, they won't be able to replace him. The problem is that it's not easy to find those types of players so they keep settling for Kleber. But he's not getting any younger and will continue to be injury-prone and inconsistent.

[KillerLeft]

I'm tired of the Maxi Kleber Experience too but until the Mavs have a big man who can shoot threes and play okay defense, they won't be able to replace him. The problem is that it's not easy to find those types of players so they keep settling for Kleber. But he's not getting any younger and will continue to be injury-prone and inconsistent.

It’s really just the injury prone thing for me. They are piling up, and he is not quite the defender he used to be. That might have something to do with the injuries, too, but that is just a part of pro sports. Everyone always complains about his shooting, but that’s just a matter of rhythm. I knew he wasn’t going to shoot well coming off of this latest injury. He was never a good enough shooter to just roll back off the DL and pick up where he left off. What really sucks is that he’s not making those game-changing defensive plays the way he used to.

[SleepingHero]

It’s really just the injury prone thing for me. They are piling up, and he is not quite the defender he used to be. That might have something to do with the injuries, too, but that is just a part of pro sports. Everyone always complains about his shooting, but that’s just a matter of rhythm. I knew he wasn’t going to shoot well coming off of this latest injury. He was never a good enough shooter to just roll back off the DL and pick up where he left off. What really sucks is that he’s not making those game-changing defensive plays the way he used to.

Hard to believe Maxi is already going to be 33 next season. His injury history doesn't exactly spark confidence either.

I think a future role of him as a break-in-case-of-emergency as a 3rd string defensive 4 who really only plays once or twice a week is best for him. Keeps his legs fresh and allows him to be more "Maxi" when it matters. This plan to maximize Maxi ishould be called "Project Maximus" to make a bad pun.

I'm not so ready as others to move on from him though. I thought he made some crazy plays against the Clippers that were game changing. He unfortunately got hurt. 

THJ/Green are too high in the rotation and salary to be putting up performances they've been putting up this entire playoff run. Green has only broken past 10 points twice this entire playoffs and outside of a few moments, he's been largely mostly whatever on defense. THJ is well...yeah... he had 1 moment this entire playoff run against OKC. Overall THJ is averaging like 4 points a game. He is WASHED.

[Mavs2021]

Nevertheless a Wiggins type is not the answer. He´s averaging 2.3 APG for his career. He cannot create for other. He´s another PJ Washington. Is he better than current THJ/Green? Duh. But he ain´t what we need. He was not very efficient as a #1 option in Minnesota either (shooting or passing). Even if you believe Luka/Kyrie have a similar gravitational pull as Steph/Klay, then he´s again just a better version of DJJ/Kleber, who is reliant on others to create good looks. But we need a scorer/creator to spare Luka and especially Kyrie some minutes during the regular season and play-offs. People say Luka is not in shape, but I only believe this up to a certain point. Luka has played by far the most minutes in these play-offs. 19 games at 41.4 MPG. Kyrie is second at 19 games at 40.1 MPG.

Lavine for THJ/Green/Kleber works financially, but to me Simons from Portland is that dude.







I´d offer them two unprotected 1st plus Green/THJ/Powell and see what they say. Imho he completes our team. Rest can be rookies, vet mins and exception guys.

[Branduil]

I still think Jerami Grant is a good idea. 40% from three this year. Yeah his contract isn't "ideal" but neither is paying THJ/Green a similar amount for their current contributions.

[loki]

THJ+Green+1st for Dejounte Murray
Kleber+2nd salary dump
Re-sign Jones for something between the tax MLE and full MLE
Sign Batum w/ the BAE

Kyrie/Hardy
DJM/Exum
Luka/DJJ
PJ/Batum
Lively/Gafford

I don't mind more or less running it back by simply shedding THJ and re-signing DJJ. This team could certainly get better through development of guys like Lively, Hardy, and Green. But it's pretty clear they either need better shooters around Luka/Kyrie or another playmaker to unlock the offense. I think a motivated Murray could really be a difference maker. The big question is can Kidd get him back to his San Antonio day's defensively?

[loki]

I'm tired of the Maxi Kleber Experience too but until the Mavs have a big man who can shoot threes and play okay defense, they won't be able to replace him. The problem is that it's not easy to find those types of players so they keep settling for Kleber. But he's not getting any younger and will continue to be injury-prone and inconsistent.

It's really hard to replace the idea of Maxi, but it's a lot easier to replace the production. I'm okay with moving on. They made it to the Finals with him only really contributing in one series, and now that they need him to step up he's MIA. I think they can put his salary to much better use in other places.

[omahen]

Batum w/ the BAE

Batum is a great idea as a Maxi replacement. I think he is a much better player on both ends. A good stop gap solution while hopefully they develop O-max to take the role as soon as possible. 

However, wasn't there news about him reitiring after this season?

[Chicagojk]

I think there is a building to beat the Celtics and building to beat everyone else. I think you have to be aware of the Celtics as they may be really good for the forseeable future. For everyone else, I think we need better shooting on the wings.

Green- solid but very low attempts
PJ- His big jump is if he can go from 32/33 to 37/38 from three in our offense. He showed himself well in these playoffs. Streaky shooter
Maxi- Low attempts and prone to long dry spells
DJJ- 34% in the season for his best of his career. 37% in the playoffs. It felt like he went two months during the season where he couldn't make anything
OMAX- TBD

If OMAX eventually is in the rotation with PJ. I think two of the remaining three need to be replaced with better shooters. The trick is they need to be able to defend as well. Right now, we don't make defenses pay enough when they need to decide to stop Luka, the lob or the corner 3.

[SleepingHero]

Nevertheless a Wiggins type is not the answer. He´s averaging 2.3 APG for his career. He cannot create for other. He´s another PJ Washington. Is he better than current THJ/Green? Duh. But he ain´t what we need. He was not very efficient as a #1 option in Minnesota either (shooting or passing). Even if you believe Luka/Kyrie have a similar gravitational pull as Steph/Klay, then he´s again just a better version of DJJ/Kleber, who is reliant on others to create good looks. But we need a scorer/creator to spare Luka and especially Kyrie some minutes during the regular season and play-offs. People say Luka is not in shape, but I only believe this up to a certain point. Luka has played by far the most minutes in these play-offs. 19 games at 41.4 MPG. Kyrie is second at 19 games at 40.1 MPG.

Lavine for THJ/Green/Kleber works financially, but to me Simons from Portland is that dude.







I´d offer them two unprotected 1st plus Green/THJ/Powell and see what they say. Imho he completes our team. Rest can be rookies, vet mins and exception guys.

I can't get around the idea targeting a 6'3 inefficient shooting guard who plays no defense as the team's missing piece. He can't be played with Kyrie, which means he's only playing with Luka. And at that point why are we getting a guy who can't play with your team's other star? Silly. 

We need a reliable scorer in the DJJ role. One who can hit a 3 and defend the other team's best dude. Would basically allow us to go platoon style like our centers where we have 2 very good defenders and scorers on the court at all times. 

Simons isn't that. Wiggins could be that but is risky. Heck we may need someone as good as just DFS back. Just a reliable outside shooter with length. 

Lavine is too far on the scorer side for it to make sense. Don't get me wrong, offensively I'm not sure there is a better guy out there on the open market that can be had. Last 5 years he's been a 43% 3pt shooter on catch and shoot 3s. 

Defensively he's probably a bigger turnstile than Simons. Mavs can't afford a poor defender in their scheme, especially on the wings. We saw that last season with Wood. That alone kind of dampens any love I have for the guy.

But......... I can convince myself adding THJ+Green as the core of the deal for Lavine is such a no brainer talent wise that if the Mavs can get that done they kind of have to. Although getting Lavine means DJJ is 100% gone. Which I'm not sure in the aggregate we're a better team.

[SleepingHero]

Batum is a great idea as a Maxi replacement. I think he is a much better player on both ends. A good stop gap solution while hopefully they develop O-max to take the role as soon as possible. 

However, wasn't there news about him reitiring after this season?

His wife came out and said he was retiring after the olympics. Batum himself didn't say those words, but he did threaten retirement if he was traded from the Clippers. Well, that didn't happen. 

He also came out last season and said he wasn't retiring amid a 3 game absence where he had to deal with a family issue. But I think that was more so to address a mid-season retirement rumor vs. after the season.

If Batum isn't retiring, I'd be all over him for the TP-MLE.

[omahen]

I can't get around the idea targeting a 6'3 inefficient shooting guard who plays no defense as the team's missing piece. He can't be played with Kyrie, which means he's only playing with Luka. And at that point why are we getting a guy who can't play with your team's other star? Silly. 

We need a reliable scorer in the DJJ role. One who can hit a 3 and defend the other team's best dude. Would basically allow us to go platoon style like our centers where we have 2 very good defenders and scorers on the court at all times. 

Simons isn't that. Wiggins could be that but is risky. Heck we may need someone as good as just DFS back. Just a reliable outside shooter with length. 

Lavine is too far on the scorer side for it to make sense. Don't get me wrong, offensively I'm not sure there is a better guy out there on the open market that can be had. Last 5 years he's been a 43% 3pt shooter on catch and shoot 3s. 

Defensively he's probably a bigger turnstile than Simons. Mavs can't afford a poor defender in their scheme, especially on the wings. We saw that last season with Wood. That alone kind of dampens any love I have for the guy.

But......... I can convince myself adding THJ+Green as the core of the deal for Lavine is such a no brainer talent wise that if the Mavs can get that done they kind of have to. Although getting Lavine means DJJ is 100% gone. Which I'm not sure in the aggregate we're a better team.

Exactly. If the 6th man is a high salary guy, he has to be able to play productive minutes with Kyrie and Luka on the court. Which means he has to be an above average defender.

[Mavs2021]

Exactly. If the 6th man is a high salary guy, he has to be able to play productive minutes with Kyrie and Luka on the court. Which means he has to be an above average defender.

We´ll just have to disagree, while I sit on my PJ Washington high horse and refer to these numbers

Opponents OFF RTG last three years

Washington 123.4 (110.7 in DAL) / 117.1 / 114.3
Simons 122.5 / 117.8 / 114.9

It´s almost like the same. Mind blown. Players tend to play worse defense on worse teams with the intention to lose.

WTF you always refer to him as a 6th man. There are 96 minutes at PG/SG alone and Luka is build like a SF/PF. Furthermore you people do realize that Kyrie will be 33 in January. Since you clearly think very little of Hardy, where does this offense comes from, when Kyrie needs more rest or even worse falls off a cliff.

Also good to know that Luka/Kyrie/Simons can´t work, when in both of Luka´s deep play-off runs, he was actually a large net positive on defense, but BARELY a net positive on offense. That clearly indicates that the offensive talent around him is the problem in the play-offs, unless we all got Luka completely wrong and he´s more Alex Caruso than Larry Bird.

[mvossman]

We´ll just have to disagree, while I sit on my PJ Washington high horse and refer to these numbers

Opponents OFF RTG last three years

Washington 123.4 (110.7 in DAL) / 117.1 / 114.3
Simons 122.5 / 117.8 / 114.9

It´s almost like the same. Mind blown. Players tend to play worse defense on worse teams with the intention to lose.

WTF you always refer to him as a 6th man. There are 96 minutes at PG/SG alone and Luka is build like a SF/PF. Furthermore you people do realize that Kyrie will be 33 in January. Since you clearly think very little of Hardy, where does this offense comes from, when Kyrie needs more rest or even worse falls off a cliff.

Also good to know that Luka/Kyrie/Simons can´t work, when in both of Luka´s deep play-off runs, he was actually a large net positive on defense, but BARELY a net positive on offense. That clearly indicates that the offensive talent around him is the problem in the play-offs, unless we all got Luka completely wrong and he´s more Alex Caruso than Larry Bird.

Are you seriously comparing Simons to PJ defensively?  PJ was an average defender on a crappy team and there was reason to hope it would improve.  It turned out better than could be reasonably expected. Simon has been a terrible defender including when his team was at least competing.  I see less reason to hope for PJ level improvement and that would get him to average. He is undersized and putting him with Luka and Kyrie on the starting lineup is not a recipe for defensive success. Who is going to be the point of attack defender?

I don't disagree that this team needs more offense especially with Timmy falling off a cliff.  We could use an upgrade in the starting lineup without compromising the defense and we need a 6th man unless Hardy/Exum can play that role.  I don't think Simons makes sense in the starting lineup up, and he is too expensive to be a 6th man.

[Mavs2021]

Are you seriously comparing Simons to PJ defensively?  PJ was an average defender on a crappy team and there was reason to hope it would improve.  It turned out better than could be reasonably expected.  Simon has been a terrible defender including when his team was at least competing.  I see less reason to hope for PJ level improvement and that would get him to average.  He is undersized and putting him with Luka and Kyrie on the starting lineup is not a recipe for defensive success.  Who is going to be the point of attack defender?

I don't disagree that this team needs more offense especially with Timmy falling off a cliff.  We could use an upgrade in the starting lineup without compromising the defense and we need a 6th man unless Hardy/Exum can play that role.  I don't think Simons makes sense in the starting lineup up, and he is too expensive to be a 6th man.

Him and a rookie make less than THJ/Green? Who would be more productive next season? His contract is value compared to his production. Nobody says he needs to start, but he can easily play 32-34 MPG in our current set-up, especially if he replaces THJ and Green. He´ll also help keep Luka and Kyrie fresher.

This is such an easy sell. Be our 6th man, playing for a legit contender for the next two years. In two years we literally  flip you and Kyrie. You make 45M, Kyrie makes 25M. You start next to Luka, Kyrie comes off the bench as a 6th man killer. That is such an easy sell to the player. Convincing Portland will be the problem.

Simons stats don´t show him as a bad defensive player. In 2022 and 2023 the Blazers on/off was + 6.9 on the defensive end, + 16.8 on/off overall. He averages almost 6 assists. He´s nearly a career 40% 3pt and 90% FT shooter, three majors weaknesses of this team. He has a quick release and he is fast. More pluses on a team struggling to create 1 on 1 looks. Plus if you look at his highlight reel, you´ll see a high degree of difficulty and clutch shooting. He´s very similar to Lillard in that regard.

You don´t mess with this starting line-up for now, but you need to find a real difference maker offensively that gives you some strategic flexibility. You won´t get a two-way player with a guaranteed 20 PPG with our assets. We need a guy that can produce 20 points regularly.