IZTOK DIAGNOSES DECLINE OF MAVS OFFENSE

[fifteenth]

Fif, if you don't believe it, then neither do I. We stand as brothers, resolute against the madding crowd.

So who is it that believes any good ol boy can do the job?

[mavsluvr]

So who is it that believes any good ol boy can do the job?

The madding crowd. 

For example, I think someone in this very thread, maybe, said a smart person can have it down to a T, starting from scratch, in six months' time. 

Voila.

[fifteenth]

The madding crowd. 

For example, I think someone in this very thread, maybe, said a smart person can have it down to a T, starting from scratch, in six months' time. 

Voila.

That confirms it.

I'm so vain. I bet I thought that song was about me.

[mavsluvr]

That confirms it.

I'm so vain. I bet I thought that song was about me.

You didn't think I was referring to you, did you, fif? OMG. Give me a little credit, bro. I know you're muy savvy when it comes to big business. 


Ah, I can hear Carly Simon's voice now, floating in the ether. . . .

[cow]

Get a room.

[fifteenth]

Get a room.

Like,  one of those karaoke rooms at a Korean bbq place?

[mavsluvr]

Like,  one of those karaoke rooms at a Korean bbq place?

Or, one of those tatami rooms at Japanese restaurants.

[KillerLeft]

Yes, there w[b]as the one big "introduce everyone" PC (very late, maybe a month later?) in which the questioners tried to draw out "who's really in charge" in order to perhaps pit one exec vs another, either now or from before, or do some sort of comparison. IMO Cuban tried to put the topic to bed by resorting to the obvious truth that any Owner always can overrule his employees, as he wishes. (My take on why, was that Cuban didn't want to admit to the reporters there looking for me[b][b]a[/b][/b]t th[b][b]a[/b][/b]t he had been too much of a micro-manager before, and had done a u-turn. It looked to me like Nico was uncomfortable with how Cuban answered, but it was the wrong time to push the point, so he smartly went with the flow.)[/b]

Interesting. This might be right on target. I'm not sure whether to hope so or not.

[F Gump]

1 Most importantly, based on how all the parties described it, Nico, not Cuban, was the one pursuing "Nico as GM" --- Cuban wanted the deal the most.

Sorry, I don't get it. If it was Nico, and not Cuban, who was the one pursuing the Nico as GM position, how would that have given Nico control?

My apologies for the confusing typo - it should have read "Cuban, not Nico." I have gone back and edited the post. Thanks.

What I meant to write ---
"Most importantly, based on how all the parties described it, Cuban, not Nico, was the one pursuing "Nico as GM" --- Cuban wanted the deal the most. 

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2 That gave Nico control, justified or not, to set terms and conditions, even though Nico was not bringing any GM expertise whatsoever to the table. Plus, Nico has said explicitly that he made it a condition that he would make the GM-ing decisions, so there's that. 


When did he say that? I have only heard him say that Cuban is in charge.



Nico said it explicitly very early, and always, that he would NOT have had any interest in the job if it didn't come with the authority to make all the decisions that GMs typically make. (I didn't catalog the where and when Nico spoke, and it's been too long ago to point to the specific interviews, but it was said in that way in two or more. Whenever the question of his authority to make decisions was asked, he said it clearly. He didn't shy away. He knew the stories.) I think that the only way anyone could have missed it was to either simply not have heard Nico, or to filter his words to fit an expectation that he could not be making decisions in light of where he came from. 



Yes, there was the one big "introduce everyone" PC (very late, maybe a month later?) in which the questioners tried to draw out "who's really in charge" in order to perhaps pit one exec vs another, either now or from before, or do some sort of comparison, in light of Cato's article. IMO Cuban tried to put the topic to bed by resorting to the obvious truth that any Owner always can overrule his employees, as he wishes. (My take on why, was that Cuban didn't want to admit to the reporters there looking for meat that he had been too much of a micro-manager before, and had done a u-turn. It looked to me like Nico was uncomfortable with how Cuban answered, but it was the wrong time to push the point, so he smartly went with the flow.)



In assessing what I was seeing in that PC, my sense of it was based on context of what Nico had made very clear when asked one-on-one before, and I see how someone who didn't hear the previous clear statements would have left with a different impression.



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3 Everything I have heard him say, including last night's interview, was very self-effacing -- emphasizing there is a lot he doesn't know, and he's not in a position to be making decisions yet. 



I agree that Nico is soft-spoken and self-effacing, but that is definitely NOT a definer of whether he has quiet-but-strong confidence, whether he knows his worth, and whether he would insist on what he feels is necessary to do the job right. More than that, of course, is that he told us who he is, when he said he would not have taken the job without full authority. The lion doesn't have to tell you he's a lion, to be a lion.



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4  IMO This was classic Cuban style - to try to discover an answer no one else would have considered. Less expensive hire, perhaps, given the lack of a track record. But once he was set on having to have Nico be the hire, then Nico could define parameters, which it has always sounded like he did.


I get the Cuban tendency to go some contrarian route and claim to be the smartest guy in the room. But it would be VERY unlike Cuban to surrender control of his business to a guy who doesn't know anything -- even to a guy who does, for that matter. 

I haven't seen anything to indicate that Nico is rampaging through the organization making decisions without regard to Cuban. Maybe I have missed it. If you know of such, spill!



I did not say Cuban (a) surrendered control of his business - iow, made Nico the new owner, or (b) that Nico, given GM authority, then has isolated himself to make whatever rampaging decisions and has told Cuban to pound sand. Sheesh, get real, that's not how any biz works. Having authority also conveys responsibility to get it right, and if Nico is smart, he will work WITH others helping, not alone, and EVEN MORE WHEN HE IS STILL LEARNING. I assume that is how Nico is doing it, because it's a big job, and hard to do well. 


I can offer one example of Nico acting just as he said - in how Bob (Cuban's buddy, even still) was handled. Is he staying? It was 'ask Nico.' When asked, Nico said he didn't know yet but would get to a decision later. Bob was on the outside of any action all summer, then he was let go when Nico had decided and was ready. In all of it, Nico made no waves, just went about his biz in his time and in his way. But it was all Nico's timing, and call.

[Kammrath]

Yes, there was the one big "introduce everyone" PC (very late, maybe a month later?) in which the questioners tried to draw out "who's really in charge" in order to perhaps pit one exec vs another, either now or from before, or do some sort of comparison, in light of Cato's article. IMO Cuban tried to put the topic to bed by resorting to the obvious truth that any Owner always can overrule his employees, as he wishes. (My take on why, was that Cuban didn't want to admit to the reporters there looking for meat that he had been too much of a micro-manager before, and had done a u-turn. It looked to me like Nico was uncomfortable with how Cuban answered, but it was the wrong time to push the point, so he smartly went with the flow.)

Agreed, 100%.

[F Gump]

Interesting. This might be right on target. I'm not sure whether to hope so or not.

Getting an expert to make GM decisions at an expert level was/is the Mavs need.

Removing Cuban from making those decisions got them halfway there. That was a good move by Cuban.

But the other half is then getting a expert to make them. Unfortunately Cuban hired Nico, who is not an expert in such things, so they are still where they were, devoid of expertise. That was awful.

Nico himself can become that expert eventually. But it's a complex job and likely to take him years to catch up to the other GMs (if ever) who have been doing these GM tasks, and figuring out the tricks and priorities, for years.

In the meantime, he might be wise enough to hire that expert, or several of them, to meet the need -- he doesn't have to become the expert himself. Hope he does. But there's been no indication that's happened. (Sadly, if they did, given the lack of expertise on hand, who could know how to recognize what person or approach should be added?)

I wish the situation was more promising, but it is what it is. Bummer to think of.

[Mapka]

Can anybody explain to me, why it is so important who is making some decisions?

I think this is and was always a team providing the Infos and doing the operative things and Marc offering the philosophie and the last say in important decisions.

It's like this in every franchise.

Only difference to me is, that we show some loyality to players who chose to be here, what I like.

[dirkfansince1998]

Can anybody explain to me, why it is so important who is making some decisions?

I think this is and was always a team providing the Infos and doing the operative things and Marc offering the philosophie and the last say in important decisions.

It's like this in every franchise.

Only difference to me is, that we show some loyality  to players who chose to be here, what I like.

Disagree. Don´t think any other team has a owner with a similar level of influence when it comes to roster decisions. For some teams it isn´t even possible because they have ownership groups.
There should be a clear hierarchy. Let the GM, coach, president of bball operations make the decisions they are hired to do and if things aren´t working out evaluate their performance. If necessary. Make changes. Don´t interfere.
That´s how the Mavs ended up in the mess they are right now. Maybe Donnie was the worst GM ever. We wouldn´t know because in the end he was just one of many advisers. Brings us back to the accountability topic. It requires clearly defined roles/jobs/authority in the front office.
Jeannie Buss isn´t making roster decisions in LA. But she is firing/hiring GMs (for example Magic Johnson) if things aren´t working out.

[mavsluvr]

I can offer one example of Nico acting just as he said - in how Bob (Cuban's buddy, even still) was handled. Is he staying? It was 'ask Nico.' When asked, Nico said he didn't know yet but would get to a decision later. Bob was on the outside of any action all summer, then he was let go when Nico had decided and was ready. In all of it, Nico made no waves, just went about his biz in his time and in his way. But it was all Nico's timing, and call.

Do you have some evidence that Nico fired Bob, other than Cuban telling a reporter to ask Nico whether Bob is staying? Bob's account of it is that he asked Cuban to let him out of his contract, and Cuban said no. So he was unable to talk to any other teams during the remainder of his contract. And that he wasn't fired, he asked to leave and just had to wait until his contract expired. I.e., that it wasn't Nico's timing (it was the expiration of the contract), it wasn't Nico's call (Bob decided to leave), and Bob dealt with Cuban on the matter, not Nico. I don't think I have ever seen Cuban, Nico, or Mavs PR try to refute that. 


(I don't doubt that Bob wanted out of his contract, considering that he probably realized, like Carlisle, that his position was going to be untenable. But I have never heard that that had anything to do with Nico.)

[mavsluvr]

"Most importantly, based on how all the parties described it, Cuban, not Nico, was the one pursuing "Nico as GM" --- Cuban wanted the deal the most. 

That gave Nico control, justified or not, to set terms and conditions, even though Nico was not bringing any GM expertise whatsoever to the table. Plus, Nico has said explicitly that he made it a condition that he would make the GM-ing decisions, so there's that. 

I don't know how we would possibly know whether Cuban or Nico wanted the deal the most. I have never heard any of the parties describe it that way. Where is that coming from? But even if we knew it were true (which we don't, afaik), Cuban's wanting the deal more than Nico might have given Nico a negotiating advantage, but that doesn't translate into Nico having the power to set whatever unjustified terms and conditions suited his fancy, without bringing any expertise to the table. 


Nico said it explicitly very early, and always, that he would NOT have had any interest in the job if it didn't come with the authority to make all the decisions that GMs typically make. (I didn't catalog the where and when Nico spoke, and it's been too long ago to point to the specific interviews, but it was said in that way in two or more. Whenever the question of his authority to make decisions was asked, he said it clearly. He didn't shy away. He knew the stories.) I think that the only way anyone could have missed it was to either simply not have heard Nico, or to filter his words to fit an expectation that he could not be making decisions in light of where he came from. 

I am not saying that didn't happen, but if it were such common knowledge that there is no way anyone could have missed it, you would think the stories would be retrievable, and we can't seem to find anything on it. Even if Nico did say he wanted total power, people say all kinds of stuff. Have we ever heard Cuban say that Nico has total power? I suppose it is possible that Nico thought he had total power, but I don't know if Cuban thought that. To wit, Gersson Rosas. 


Everything I have heard him say, including last night's interview, was very self-effacing -- emphasizing there is a lot he doesn't know, and he's not in a position to be making decisions yet. 

I agree that Nico is soft-spoken and self-effacing, but that is definitely NOT a definer of whether he has quiet-but-strong confidence, whether he knows his worth, and whether he would insist on what he feels is necessary to do the job right. More than that, of course, is that he told us who he is, when he said he would not have taken the job without full authority. The lion doesn't have to tell you he's a lion, to be a lion.

A reason I find it weird that Nico would say that he has the total power to make decisions is that it doesn't seem to fit his personality to go around making, "Look at me, I'm such a big man, I'm showing Cuban who's boss, he's not telling me what to do" kinds of statements. According to the reports I have seen/heard, his role for many years wrt his customers has been more of a "wind-beneath-their-wings" sort of position, where part of his job was to be very careful not to be seen as trying to put himself front and center.

If someone specifically asked him if he had the power to make the decisions incident to his position, I can't imagine that he would have said, "No, I'm just a figurehead," no matter what the underlying situation was. What else was he supposed to say, except that he wanted to make the decisions incident to the position?


IMO This was classic Cuban style - to try to discover an answer no one else would have considered. Less expensive hire, perhaps, given the lack of a track record. But once he was set on having to have Nico be the hire, then Nico could define parameters, which it has always sounded like he did.

The fact that an employer wants to hire someone doesn't at all mean that the employee can unilaterally define the terms of his employment. I mean, you seem to imply that he couldn't demand whatever salary suited him. I don't know why Cuban's wanting to hire him would imply that he could demand whatever power suited him. 

What is the point of all this, one may ask. I think it is part of a search for accountability and whether the "cultural reset" is real in an organization that seems to be drowning in dysfunction. 

We have several possibilities here. 

-- Cuban surrendered all decision-making (other than normal owner-level oversight) to Nico, not realizing that Nico was unqualified for the job (or perhaps thinking that the job doesn't require much in the way of expertise or experience). If this is the case, then we know that Cuban hasn't learned anything in 20+ years of ownership, and is still making hires based on who his buds are, and who will just let Mark be Mark. 

-- Cuban surrendered all decision-making (other than normal owner-level oversight) to Nico, knowing that he was unqualified for the job, because Nico required that as a condition of being hired.  I don't buy that Cuban is the smartest guy in the room, but I don't accuse him of being stupid. If this is what happened, then we know Cuban is just out to lunch, and the situation is hopeless. 

-- Cuban didn't surrender any decision-making to Nico, although he pretended he did, and is using Nico as a foil for casting blame when/if things go south. 

-- Cuban realized when he hired Nico that he wasn't prepared to slot in to the job immediately. He delegated some very important duties to Nico, duties that he thought Nico was prepared to handle. He did not give Nico final organizational responsibility over areas that he knows little about. Nico may or may not realize that he doesn't have final say over all matters. This is what I lean to believing Mark thought he was doing in making the hire. If there is a lack of clarity among the players as to who has authority, that is a bad thing. 


Cubes appears to be trying to present an image of collegial decision-making (for example, with a leadership council of several key voices), while making it clear that final decisions rest with him. He retains primary responsibility for being the guy who deals with the media and speaks on behalf of the organization regarding matters great and small. 

One can pick any of the above possibilities (or others) as a hypothesis, I guess, but I don't think the fat lady has sung at this point. I think we can all keep our eyes open as things develop and we can further solidify our thoughts about how things are changing (or not) at this ailing organization. 

Thanks for all the thoughts, FG.

[ballsrchr]

I think Cuban panicked  with the departure of both the GM and Head Coach.  Regardless of how nice a guy Nico is...I think he is out of his "league"...and this hiring decision will play out as a blunder.  

The Kidd hire as Head Coach?...ehh, we'll see...

[WildArkieBoy]

I think Cuban panicked  with the departure of both the GM and Head Coach.  Regardless of how nice a guy Nico is...I think he is out of his "league"...and this hiring decision will play out as a blunder.  

The Kidd hire as Head Coach?...ehh, we'll see...

Ironically, the initial testing of Nico's efficacy as GM will be his response if JKidd's coaching fails to make the team better.  If Kidd does less than RC with essentially the same squad, why was the change made?  

[fifteenth]

Based on the responses to Nico's interview,  I'm surprised at how many folks think "humble and self effacing" look bad and that it automatically represents a lack of authority or influence behind the scenes.

When I see someone who has Nico's skins on the wall who also carries himself publicly the way Nico does,  I'm actually impressed. When I hear him talk about servant leadership I'm impressed. 

These can be powerful attributes and concepts when held in combination with other things that one needs to succeed at a task.

[ItsGoTime]

Ironically, the initial testing of Nico's efficacy as GM will be his response if JKidd's coaching fails to make the team better.  If Kidd does less than RC with essentially the same squad, why was the change made?  

We didn’t change the coach, we found a replacement after the coach left.

[Kammrath]

Based on the responses to Nico's interview,  I'm surprised at how many folks think "humble and self effacing" look bad and that it automatically represents a lack of authority or influence behind the scenes.

When I see someone who has Nico's skins on the wall who also carries himself publicly the way Nico does,  I'm actually impressed. When I hear him talk about servant leadership I'm impressed. 

These can be powerful attributes and concepts when held in combination with other things that one needs to succeed at a task.

WELL SAID. The negative reactions to Nico are astounding to me. It's like people hate Cuban and his bravado and yet when someone like Nico acts more like Dirk (!!!!) then people think he is incompetent and a simpleton. Ridiculous.