Let´s have a poll: KP for Simmons straight up - are you in?

[omahen]

Mavs and Philly basically have the same dilemma. Try again to make their max guy work or move on at likely lowest point (so far) of their market value. 

However, I see absolutely no way Mavs could make a package that would interest a win now team like Philly. They would never trade Simmons for a bunch of role players or even picks and KP value is way lower than Simmons. I have a very hard time seeing it in a three team trade. Like KP to Toronto (Toronto would realy have to love KP), Lowry and a bunch of Dallas assets (Brunson, DFS?, picks) to Philly and Simmons to Dallas. 

Unless perhaps KP marries Doc Rivers daugther, niece or whatever he has available.

[Branduil]

My answer:



Look at Embiid if you want a preview of how Luka would feel

[Branduil]

https://twitter.com/statmuse/status/1406804773060317184

[Thukydides]

Wanted to say thanks to all of you for contributing to this thread. Way more replies than I ever expected :-) Simmons´ G7 performance just solidified my feelings. The era, when you got away with playing someone like him, is long gone. I don´t want to watch Luka suffer the way Embiid did, because they could wall him with two guys all the time.

[dirkfansince1998]

Embiid really isn´t in the position to call out his teammates. Simmons sucked in the clutch but he wasn´t any better.

https://twitter.com/statmuse/status/1406803643412615173

https://twitter.com/HalfCourtHoops/statu...9874900994

And I am suprised that people already forgot this:

https://twitter.com/moviehottake/status/...6278936584



And I haven´t even mentioned Tobias Harris performance in the last three games or Doc Rivers coaching.
Bottom line: Simmons offense was bad but there is plenty of blame to go around.

[JamesConway]

Said it in the other thread, too. I’d be all over this in the hopes of buying low.

But I actually think he’s the guy you want next to KP. Let him play the Giannis-role. He can attack and playmake in transition, in the halfcourt you let him roll to the rim and cut. Don’t ask a lot of playmaking from him when the defense is set.

Defensively he’d be a dream fit alongside KP. Long and big enough to defend inside and rebound but also quick enough to guard the perimeter.

Luka
Tim
DFS
Ben
KP

would be a pretty darn awesome squad if everyone buys into his role.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Wanted to say thanks to all of you for contributing to this thread. Way more replies than I ever expected :-) Simmons´ G7 performance just solidified my feelings. The era, when you got away with playing someone like him, is long gone. I don´t want to watch Luka suffer the way Embiid did, because they could wall him with two guys all the time.

Simmons and Gobert .... I don't care how awesome you are on defense, I don't care what your net rating is in the regular season .... you're a net liability deep in the playoffs if you can't/won't do anything on offense.  Like, you just can't even be on the floor in the final 5 minutes.  Both Gobert and Simmons should have been benched in the 4th quarter.   It's not just this game, I think Simmons gone 5 games without attempting a shot attempt in the 4th quarter.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Said it in the other thread, too. I’d be all over this in the hopes of buying low.

But I actually think he’s the guy you want next to KP. Let him play the Giannis-role. He can attack and playmake in transition, in the halfcourt you let him roll to the rim and cut. Don’t ask a lot of playmaking from him when the defense is set.

Defensively he’d be a dream fit alongside KP. Long and big enough to defend inside and rebound but also quick enough to guard the perimeter.

Luka
Tim
DFS
Ben
KP

would be a pretty darn awesome squad if everyone buys into his role.

This is where I am too.  IF you do something like this, it is next to KP, not instead of KP.  Simmons D makes KP at center workable defensively.  I started to write "and in Rick's offensive system" and then remembered.  The issue is we don't know what offensive system we will be running.  So, you can't just plug Simmons into "the Powell role" because there might not be a Powell role.

The other issue with this is I'd want to keep Maxi spreading the floor as the 3rd big.  So, in what world do you get Simmons on a deal based around Powell, Brunson and space?

[Branduil]

I swear to God some of you guys are trying to run Luka out of here as fast as possible. We'd be paying $60 million plus to two of the most disappointing playoff performers of the past year.

[sefant]

Simmons contract has a 15 % trade kicker btw.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Said it in the other thread, too. I’d be all over this in the hopes of buying low.

But I actually think he’s the guy you want next to KP. Let him play the Giannis-role. He can attack and playmake in transition, in the halfcourt you let him roll to the rim and cut. Don’t ask a lot of playmaking from him when the defense is set.

Defensively he’d be a dream fit alongside KP. Long and big enough to defend inside and rebound but also quick enough to guard the perimeter.

Luka
Tim
DFS
Ben
KP

would be a pretty darn awesome squad if everyone buys into his role.

This would be depended on a lot of ifs.  If KP dedicates himself to improving his game, physical conditioning, and attitude this summer. If DFS also works to improve his consistency. He's made strides in his 3 pt shooting, but he can't have 22 pt, 11 reb game one night, then follow it up with an 8 pt, 5 reb game. And if someone can build Simmon's confidence back up, and get him to look at the basket more.  He had a point-blank dunk on one play and passed the ball instead. He's scared to shoot because he doesn't want to get fouled and go to the ft line where he's the worst in playoff history.  I don't think this lineup works at all because Simmons and KP are the biggest ?? marks.

[TXBamanut]

Forward, center, wing -- it all depends on the lineup. The main thing is to just accept that he's not a guard. He needs a fresh start.

With a straight face, you are telling me that Ben Simmons who won't and can't shoot a 3 point shot with NO ONE within 15 feet of him can play wing or forward (or center really) in today's NBA?  You want a guy playing inside who is literally scared to death to take a free throw?  So much so, that he will give up on a wide open drive and pass out because he's afraid he'll get embarrassed shooting a free throw (or let the team down -- I do want to be fair.  I think that's factoring in, not just blame it on his vanity).

Between him and Dwight Powell, you'd rather have Dwight Powell take the open 3.

---

Embiid really isn´t in the position to call out his teammates. Simmons sucked in the clutch but he wasn´t any better.

https://twitter.com/statmuse/status/1406803643412615173

https://twitter.com/HalfCourtHoops/statu...9874900994

And I am suprised that people already forgot this:

https://twitter.com/moviehottake/status/...6278936584



And I haven´t even mentioned Tobias Harris performance in the last three games or Doc Rivers coaching.
Bottom line: Simmons offense was bad but there is plenty of blame to go around.

Simmons offense wasn't bad...it was non-existent, invisible, unattempted...  that's worse than bad.  You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

[Mavs2021]

Simmons and Gobert .... I don't care how awesome you are on defense, I don't care what your net rating is in the regular season .... you're a net liability deep in the playoffs if you can't/won't do anything on offense.  Like, you just can't even be on the floor in the final 5 minutes.  Both Gobert and Simmons should have been benched in the 4th quarter.   It's not just this game, I think Simmons gone 5 games without attempting a shot attempt in the 4th quarter.

And Capela can do anything on offense? What´s the offensive difference between Gobert and Capela?

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/KevinOConnorNBA/stat...0776792068

[Branduil]

Honestly it's mind-boggling to me that he's never gotten his shot fixed. There have been players with "bad" shot mechanics before, of course (see the Matrix), but they made it work for them and were able to be offensive threats. Ben Simmons has gotten this far based on his immense physical gifts, but in the playoffs that's not enough. You have to have actual offensive skills.

[michaeltex]

Simmons and Gobert .... I don't care how awesome you are on defense, I don't care what your net rating is in the regular season .... you're a net liability deep in the playoffs if you can't/won't do anything on offense.  Like, you just can't even be on the floor in the final 5 minutes.  Both Gobert and Simmons should have been benched in the 4th quarter.   It's not just this game, I think Simmons gone 5 games without attempting a shot attempt in the 4th quarter.

Given the tight window for prepping regular season games, "Hack-a-Ben" is going to become a real part of every opponents strategy. At least until he gets a brain adjustment and starts hitting FTs.

There are comments about how PHI has enough blame for everyone, but when your main creator is passing out of open dunks, then some of the team problems come back to him.

[TXBamanut]

Mavs and Philly basically have the same dilemma. Try again to make their max guy work or move on at likely lowest point (so far) of their market value. 

However, I see absolutely no way Mavs could make a package that would interest a win now team like Philly. They would never trade Simmons for a bunch of role players or even picks and KP value is way lower than Simmons. I have a very hard time seeing it in a three team trade. Like KP to Toronto (Toronto would realy have to love KP), Lowry and a bunch of Dallas assets (Brunson, DFS?, picks) to Philly and Simmons to Dallas. 

Unless perhaps KP marries Doc Rivers daugther, niece or whatever he has available.

As bad as KP's value is right now, and it definitely down, there is no way Simmon's value is higher than KP for several reasons.  People will blame the FO dysfunction and Haralabob dictating lineups that screwed up KP.  People will point to the fact that Bob (and Carlisle) didn't want to use him in the post and easily didn't do anything to attempt to make that successful (I'm not going back through all that analysis again).  People will point to the fact that the Clippers were the worst possible matchup for KP.  People will point to the truncated off-season, the rush (way too soon, it seems in hindsight) back from surgery and will point to the bubble Porzingis a few months earlier and will talk themselves into trading for KP.  The one thing they can say is that KP is a malcontent...and Simmons is just scared.   Simmons, by all accounts, seems to be more likeable than KP...he just refuses to work on his shooting and integrate it into his game, though.  Not sure which is worse, honestly.

Simmons shooting has been always been bad and has progressively gotten worse.  This isn't a new problem.  It's not like a year ago he was lighting it up, had a surgery and rushed back to a compressed season and didn't have it.  This is a chronic and continuous problem.  It's not an injury or a bad front office or a coach that doesn't get it or a "shadow GM" dictating lineups to a coach or team chemistry or the worst possible matchup in the playoffs.

Let's be real...it's the OPPOSITE of those things.  They got one of the best GMs in the league, who made all the right moves, one of the "best" coaches (by rep) in the league who believed in Simmons hard, against a matchup that SHOULD have been great for him.  Let's be real, if he's a 6'11" 245 pound guard who is quicker than most, he should have had a field day with Gallo, Collins, Williams, Young...he was bigger and faster than anyone the Hawks had to defend him, but he didn't.  This was more of a dream semi-finals matchup than anything for him and he just punted.

Sure, people will talk themselves into Ben Simmons because of his athleticism and the same stuff here...."we can make him learn to shoot."  "We can fix his free throws"...but the biggest part of the "we" in that sentence is "he" and he apparently hasn't put in the time or worse yet, HAS and he simply can't do it.  It's possible.  We can make him guard and battle 5s in the league and not handle the ball in Dallas and he'll be a valuable 30 mill a year guy...that's nonsense. 

They are both in bad shape tradewise...but   KP is much easier for someone to talk themselves into at this point for all those reasons/excuses...we've seen how GMs do in this league.  Simmons is a different problem, and I'm not sure it is fixable...not fully and no one wants to pay 30 mill a year for that...just like that would be the biggest hangup with KP.  #grassisalwaysgreener

***Before anyone says "easy for you to say", yeah, you're right.  I couldn't get in front of 30,000 screaming fans and execute much of anything competitively against the best in the world night in, night out, with a pile of people publicly going bipolar on me every day all day of the season at my best....and neither could many people on this forum, if any.  It's not easy, but it's where Simmons and KP are.***

---

Honestly it's mind-boggling to me that he's never gotten his shot fixed. There have been players with "bad" shot mechanics before, of course (see the Matrix), but they made it work for them and were able to be offensive threats. Ben Simmons has gotten this far based on his immense physical gifts, but in the playoffs that's not enough. You have to have actual offensive skills.

And that's the deal.  AT some point, it's an extreme fear or an extreme unwillingness to get better and honestly, he may have missed his window to fix it, because no one wants to pay 30 million a year while a guy "learns" to shoot...for Pete's sake, he can't even make up his mind if he can shoot right-handed or left-handed (I'd completely forgotten about that whole thing...geeeez, this is bad).

---

Honestly it's mind-boggling to me that he's never gotten his shot fixed. There have been players with "bad" shot mechanics before, of course (see the Matrix), but they made it work for them and were able to be offensive threats. Ben Simmons has gotten this far based on his immense physical gifts, but in the playoffs that's not enough. You have to have actual offensive skills.

And that's the deal.  AT some point, it's an extreme fear or an extreme unwillingness to get better and honestly, he may have missed his window to fix it, because no one wants to pay 30 million a year while a guy "learns" to shoot...for Pete's sake, he can't even make up his mind if he can shoot right-handed or left-handed (I'd completely forgotten about that whole thing...geeeez, this is bad).

When Doc Rivers was asked if Ben Simmons can be a point guard on a championship team, and he said "I don't know" -- Doc Rivers, who's about as much of a blind faith player defender coach as there is....{low whistle}...that should speak volumes.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Yeah, like KP you can tell yourself the meniscus tear and that short offseason caused a regression and that he can get back to his 2020 Defensive form with a full offseason.   I don't know what you talk yourself into with Simmons.  He's the same guy he was 3 years ago.

[dirkfansince1998]

The craziest part is the lack of confidence. Never seen anything like this. The play vs Gallinari is the perfect example. Gets the ball. Establishes position in the post and backs him down. Spins to the baseline and blows by him. Really cannot do it any better. He just needs to finish it.
I really don´t get it. Finishing in the paint wasn´t a problem against the Wizards. Wasn´t a problem early in the series. Started in game 4 when the 76ers choked and lost a close game. Was even worse in the next three games. Once the hack a Simmons started he just stopped.

Same for the FT issues. He is bad but not worst of alltime level bad. Career 60% in the regular season. 65% in the playoffs prior to this season. And all of a sudden he cannot make a shot. Was completly out of it.

I really don´t see a player that lacks skills/ability even though some shooting touch wouldn´t hurt. And it´s not like his entire game was impacted. He was still outstanding on the defensive end. Not the usual he checked out of it and just didn´t try situation. Cannot remember a similar case.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

And Capela can do anything on offense? What´s the offensive difference between Gobert and Capela?

Capela isn't much different that Gobert on offense, but he also has had the good luck of not yet facing a team in the playoffs that can pull him out in the perimeter in a smallball/5 out offense where he becomes an extreme net liability.