MAVS NEWS: Lively to Be Full Time Starter Next Season | Luka "Ecstatic" About Klay

[mvossman]

i REALLY hope SLO loses next game or at least the following (hopefully against Giannis led Greece) to end international summer play for him. Sorry Luka, sorry Slovenians, but he has to get 2 months off to get his body right.

Also a very good thing about this off season: Kyrie/Grimes/Klay/Washington/Lively are good enough starters for most regular season games.

Except there is not a great option to run point when kyrie is out. Would like to get a vet min PG.

[SleepingHero]

@MavsStan41

Tim Cato on “the only Mavericks podcast” said that the Mavericks had a standing offer for DJJ. The same 27 mil for 3 years deal that Naji signed. Then shortly before free agency he changed agencies to Klutch sports.

[SleepingHero]

Mavs Film Room
@MavsFilmRoom
Season Opener Starting Lineups for the Mavericks in the Nico-Kidd era:

2021 Season Opener Starting Lineup:

Luka
THJ
Dorian
Porzingis
Powell

2022 Season Opener Starting Lineup:

Luka
Dinwiddie
Bullock
Dorian
McGee

2023 Season Opener Starting Lineup:

Luka
Kyrie
DJJ
Grant
Maxi

2024 projected starting lineup:

Luka
Kyrie
Klay
PJ
Lively

[Chicagojk]

@MavsStan41

Tim Cato on “the only Mavericks podcast” said that the Mavericks had a standing offer for DJJ. The same 27 mil for 3 years deal that Naji signed. Then shortly before free agency he changed agencies to Klutch sports.

That is really interesting.  I wonder if he just got it into his head that he wanted to start?  Did the new agency get something into his head?   Did they promise they could get him more money from Dallas?   I assume the starting thing was the issue, but you never know.   

Jones vs Marshall is the known vs the unknown.   Listening to NBA guys most seem to think it is pretty close in talent for both.   They just do things differently.    I think the concerns for me is who is going to guard the elite point guards.    Second, with Klay, Luka and Kyrie on the floor together you are also missing that defense piece.  Although, i am not sure long term if DJJ starter due to some of his offensive limitations.  I would have preferred the known vs the unknown this year though.

[SleepingHero]

That is really interesting.  I wonder if he just got it into his head that he wanted to start?  Did the new agency get something into his head?   Did they promise they could get him more money from Dallas?   I assume the starting thing was the issue, but you never know.   

Jones vs Marshall is the known vs the unknown.   Listening to NBA guys most seem to think it is pretty close in talent for both.   They just do things differently.    I think the concerns for me is who is going to guard the elite point guards.    Second, with Klay, Luka and Kyrie on the floor together you are also missing that defense piece.  Although, i am not sure long term if DJJ starter due to some of his offensive limitations.  I would have preferred the known vs the unknown this year though.

It couldn't have been about the money, because after taxes DJJ will be making less than what he would've made on the 3/27 deal in Dallas. 

It had to have been about the role. Unfortunate, but I think DJJ wasn't too keen on being a backup again. And ironically he will end up as a backup now to whoever the Clippers get to fill the PG13 role.

Regarding the POA thing, I think there is a chance that maybe Klay could be that guy. I'm definitely in a wait and see approach. Maybe there is a world where PJ is that guy. Or heck maybe they move PJ to the bench and bring Grimes in to be that guy. 

Lots of variations.

[Chicagojk]

All Things Mavs (@All_Things_Mavs)
MacMahon says his understanding is that Luka Doncic is “pretty ecstatic” about the Klay Thompson addition

He also says he threw out Dennis Smith Jr.‘s name as an addition to the roster to “someone in the organization and it didn’t get shot down.”

Man, I was really wrong with DSJ when he came out.  He was one of my top picks to make it to our pick.  Now I didn't watch much college basketball that year (new baby), but I thought he would be similar what Donovan Mitchell turned into.

He shot 29% from three last year.   He already did not finish well at the rim.   Good defender though.  Probably in our price range and knows minutes are not guaranteed.   May decide to go somewhere with more minutes.   Not sure we have enough minutes for Dinwiddie.   Both good stop gap names if we decide on a PG type.   A stab in the dark prospect for me is Jason Preston.  He is on a two way in Utah and I believe a RFA.   He is someone who interests me some though.

[Winter]

That is really interesting.  I wonder if he just got it into his head that he wanted to start?  Did the new agency get something into his head?   Did they promise they could get him more money from Dallas?   I assume the starting thing was the issue, but you never know.   

Jones vs Marshall is the known vs the unknown.   Listening to NBA guys most seem to think it is pretty close in talent for both.   They just do things differently.    I think the concerns for me is who is going to guard the elite point guards.    Second, with Klay, Luka and Kyrie on the floor together you are also missing that defense piece.  Although, i am not sure long term if DJJ starter due to some of his offensive limitations.  I would have preferred the known vs the unknown this year though.

Yes, there's still some unanswered questions. For instance, I'm sure we all noticed that Naji's name was given to the media as the Mavs backup plan before anything else happened. That seemed a little unusual that early in FA. Maybe the Mavs could predict some of this with a new agent.

It's possible, the Mavs thought Naji was really a better fit for the incoming pieces (but would have liked to have stuck with DJJ based on the history), and when the new agent slowed everything down, the Mavs just pivoted quickly so that the rest of the Klay-to-the Mavs process could play out without financial hiccups. 

This will be hard to know exactly unless DJJ comments on it.

[KillerLeft]

Yes, there's still some unanswered questions. For instance, I'm sure we all noticed that Naji's name was given to the media as the Mavs backup plan before anything else happened. That seemed a little unusual that early in FA. Maybe the Mavs could predict some of this with a new agent.

It's possible, the Mavs thought Naji was really a better fit for the incoming pieces (but would have liked to have stuck with DJJ based on the history), and when the new agent slowed everything down, the Mavs just pivoted quickly so that the rest of the Klay-to-the Mavs process could play out without financial hiccups. 

This will be hard to know exactly unless DJJ comments on it.

The more I think about this, the more I think this happened on the Mavs’ terms, not DJJ’s. This Cato info was the last piece of the puzzle to me. 

If that standing 3/$27m offer is true, and he changed agents rather than sign it, I think they basically said “eff it, then, we like Marshall, anyway” rather than go through a NEW negotiation with DJJ, who was obviously in a position (career earnings of only $27m TOTAL) to want to haggle for the most money possible. 

I bet Jones was hoping to get the full MLE. From DALLAS.

Then, when Dallas pivoted, I think Jones panicked and that’s when he did the whole “my old agency needs to negotiate this one” move so he could get paid before the options dried up. 

Big mistake on his part, if I have this right. The Mavs will be much better than the Clippers next season, and he didn’t really do all that much better. He should’ve just signed. OR, maybe he should’ve stayed the course and let his new agents try to get him that full MLE somewhere.

[Winter]

The more I think about this, the more I think this happened on the Mavs’ terms, not DJJ’s. This Cato info was the last piece of the puzzle to me. 

If that standing 3/$27m offer is true, and he changed agents rather than sign it, I think they basically said “eff it, then, we like Marshall, anyway” rather than go through a NEW negotiation with DJJ, who was obviously in a position (career earnings of only $27m TOTAL) to want to haggle for the most money possible. 

I bet Jones was hoping to get the full MLE. From DALLAS.

Then, when Dallas pivoted, I think Jones panicked and that’s when he did the whole “my old agency needs to negotiate this one” move so he could get paid before the options dried up. 

Big mistake on his part, if I have this right. The Mavs will be much better than the Clippers next season, and he didn’t really do all that much better. He should’ve just signed. OR, maybe he should’ve stayed the course and let his new agents try to get him that full MLE somewhere.

Yes, this is more in line with my thinking as well.

I'm just not completely sold on the "I have to be a starter" reasoning. DJJ has been around the league, and his Mavs experience was by all accounts the best one he's had. Just because Klay was being hunted wasn't going to automatically push DJJ into fewer minutes (he was only averaging 23 mpg). Most players understand that winning and going to playoffs is not easy. I doubt DJJ was so petty that he thought the starting minutes were suddenly critical to his resume. He just doesn't seem like that type of guy. After all, most other teams probably aren't going to give him starter minutes either. This was a pretty ideal situation for him.

[SleepingHero]

The more I think about this, the more I think this happened on the Mavs’ terms, not DJJ’s. This Cato info was the last piece of the puzzle to me. 

If that standing 3/$27m offer is true, and he changed agents rather than sign it, I think they basically said “eff it, then, we like Marshall, anyway” rather than go through a NEW negotiation with DJJ, who was obviously in a position (career earnings of only $27m TOTAL) to want to haggle for the most money possible. 

I bet Jones was hoping to get the full MLE. From DALLAS.

Then, when Dallas pivoted, I think Jones panicked and that’s when he did the whole “my old agency needs to negotiate this one” move so he could get paid before the options dried up. 

Big mistake on his part, if I have this right. The Mavs will be much better than the Clippers next season, and he didn’t really do all that much better. He should’ve just signed. OR, maybe he should’ve stayed the course and let his new agents try to get him that full MLE somewhere.

I think you summarized what likely happened perfectly. After reading this, the entire ordeal makes a whole lot more sense. 


If so then kudos on the FO for not falling for historical mistakes.

[audiosway]

That is really interesting.  I wonder if he just got it into his head that he wanted to start?  Did the new agency get something into his head?   Did they promise they could get him more money from Dallas?   I assume the starting thing was the issue, but you never know.   

Jones vs Marshall is the known vs the unknown.   Listening to NBA guys most seem to think it is pretty close in talent for both.   They just do things differently.    I think the concerns for me is who is going to guard the elite point guards.    Second, with Klay, Luka and Kyrie on the floor together you are also missing that defense piece.  Although, i am not sure long term if DJJ starter due to some of his offensive limitations.  I would have preferred the known vs the unknown this year though.

I've heard several extremely knowledgeable scouts and NBA guys lately say that Marshall has the edge over DJJ. He's longer, stronger, a better shooter, and able to extend a play and make something out of nothing. So, he has a little playmaking in him.

[mvossman]

I've heard several extremely knowledgeable scouts and NBA guys lately say that Marshall has the edge over DJJ. He's longer, stronger, a better shooter, and able to extend a play and make something out of nothing. So, he has a little playmaking in him.

Given that the role is now a 15-20 minute bench player, this might be true. I would be much more skeptical if we were trying to fill DJJ old role as a heavy minute starter.

[BigDirk41]

Given that the role is now a 15-20 minute bench player, this might be true. I would be much more skeptical if we were trying to fill DJJ old role as a heavy minute starter.

DJJ only averaged 23 mpg so it might not be much different.

[WildArkieBoy]

Given that the role is now a 15-20 minute bench player, this might be true. I would be much more skeptical if we were trying to fill DJJ old role as a heavy minute starter.

Didn't DJJ play just 23 minutes per game?

[Smitty]

Given that the role is now a 15-20 minute bench player, this might be true. I would be much more skeptical if we were trying to fill DJJ old role as a heavy minute starter.

Pretty incredible but everyone thinks DJJ played a bigger role post trade deadline but actually his minutes reduced. He averaged 19.7 mpg post TDL.

[KillerLeft]

Pretty incredible but everyone thinks DJJ played a bigger role post trade deadline but actually his minutes reduced. He averaged 19.7 mpg post TDL.

It’s a great point, actually, but he played a crap ton in the playoffs.

I also think it’s fairly obvious that they intend for Marshall to play quite a bit more than 15 to 20 minutes, but I guess we will see.

[Smitty]

It’s a great point, actually, but he played a crap ton in the playoffs.

I also think it’s fairly obvious that they intend for Marshall to play quite a bit more than 15 to 20 minutes, but I guess we will see.

He was all-world in the playoffs. Enough to make him a fan favorite for life!

[ThisIStheYear]

In fairness, DJJ played over 29 minutes in 22 playoff games, when he really emerged. Naji has shown he can be effective at about 20 minutes per game. That’s probably all the Mavs will need regular season or playoffs. Based on the data, there’s not much between them, at least in a 20 minute role. Naji may even turn out to be a little better as a small forward, though he may not have the same positional flexibility on defense. In theory, the Mavs stayed the same with this exchange, as we all seem to agree for the most part. The Mavs will have their most talented team in franchise history next year if Luka can rehab his knee and everything else to 100%. It’s now title or bust.

[mvossman]

It’s a great point, actually, but he played a crap ton in the playoffs.

I also think it’s fairly obvious that they intend for Marshall to play quite a bit more than 15 to 20 minutes, but I guess we will see.

I’m not sure how?  Klay is going to play 30 minutes a game, more than anyone outgoing. Grimes should get Green’s minutes. Hopefully Omax will see some minutes. We want a bigger look at Hardy. It doesn’t seem like there are that many minutes to go around.

[mvossman]

Pretty incredible but everyone thinks DJJ played a bigger role post trade deadline but actually his minutes reduced. He averaged 19.7 mpg post TDL.

That is very surprising. Thought his minutes went up in second half (like they did in the playoffs).