Trade & FA 2023-24: 76ers Believe They Have A Shot at PG13

[KillerLeft]

Put it this way, if I told you on June 1st the Mavs would be getting 2 FRP prospects (one a switchable defensive center and a 6'8 defensive maestro), Richaun Holmes, Grant Williams, Clint Capela, Seth Curry, and retained Kyrie on as realistic of a team friendly short term contract as can be that is cheaper than FVV

And all it cost was THJ, Reggie, McGee, Bertans, 1 pick swap and a 2027 first, would that frame your outlook any differently?

No, because that ‘27 has a good chance of being a top 5 pick. 

AND, just because of where the Mavs were starting, asset wise. 

AND, because they spent a lottery pick on a center. That’s ALREADY a bigger allocation of resources to that position than conventional wisdom is comfortable with.

[mvossman]

Nothing that would cost ONLY one pick, imo.

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I would do this.

Not sure we can assume Hardy is ready to step into THJ’s shoes right away, but it’s deal you can’t pass up. Capela remains underrated, defensively, and this is a good buy low point in time for him, I think.

He has help from Curry.  We do this we should go get Derrick Jones Jr.  I'm not a fan of sending assets for another center, but this makes a lot of sense.  Holmes would be deadweight.

[KillerLeft]

Usually you hate dinosaur bigs. What´s the difference when it comes to Capela. i see a guy that already lost some of his foot speed. Cannot really defend in space. Declined badly as a rim protector. Cannot shoot FTs. Still think that he is on a DAJ trajectory.

You might be right. 

In this case, I see a guy stuck in the cesspool that was ATL for the past two seasons and think he has a couple more years of basketball left in him. I don’t think he’s a dinosaur. 

BUT, he MIGHT be, and that’s why I wouldn’t include ‘27.

[KillerLeft]

If this is just some combo of THJ, McGee and maybe some 2nds, I’m into it. Hard.

If it’s a 1st, especially with the ultra light or nonexistent protections that pick almost has to have, I’m going to be pretty blue.

[omahen]

Agree that we should not be spending a first on Dort.  He is more aggressive offensively than Grant, but much less efficient.  I think I like Williams better.

Disagree on saving the first for a center.  We just spent a first on a center.  I want to see what we have in Lively before I spend our remaining assets on another center.

I can agree 2027 is a bit too much for just Dort. But if there is one team that has a gazillion (minor) asset option to send back, either in the form of young players or lesser picks. People are just pushing it with THJ+McGee+2 SRP ideas for Dort. Dumping McGee costs 2 SRP and Dort is certainly more valuable than THJ. 

I think Dort fits perfectly next to Williams. Very switchable. Not a good shooter but not affraid to drive to the rim. Green-Dort-GW would be awesome wing rotation and Mavs easily have minutes for all of them plus some for Omax. I would basically split PG+SG minutes to Irving, Luka and Hardy (Seth jumps in when one of them is out) and SF+PF minutes to those four wings. 

On the Capela - I mentioned a couple of times, that Hawks forum (also some news from national guys) is buzzing for weeks about Hawks effort for either Siakam or Towns. Mavs seem like a perfect partner to grab Capela in the process. This trade is basically my only hope for Mavs to improve on C position this summer (basically same concept for Towns). But I agree, 2027 FRP is too much for just Capela, something more should be coming our way.

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If this is just some combo of THJ, McGee and maybe some 2nds, I’m into it. Hard.

If it’s a 1st, especially with the ultra light or nonexistent  protections that pick almost has to have, I’m going to be pretty blue.

I don't think 2 SRP brings are anywhere close. I would seek solution in getting something more than just Capela for that 2027 FRP. Toronto or Atlanta can send us lottery protected pick, for example. Or perhaps we like one of their youngsters, that are not getting minutes.

[Winter]

Put it this way, if I told you on June 1st the Mavs would be getting 2 FRP prospects (one a switchable defensive center and a 6'8 defensive maestro), Richaun Holmes, Grant Williams, Clint Capela, Seth Curry, and retained Kyrie on as realistic of a team friendly short term contract as can be that is cheaper than FVV

And all it cost was THJ, Reggie, McGee, Bertans, 1 pick swap and a 2027 first, would that frame your outlook any differently?

I had the same thought. I would hate losing the FRP, but we have a solid youth movement already in place.

[Smitty]

It looks simple to me:

Hawks: Siakam , McGee
Mavs: Capela
Raptors: THJ, Hunter, Bey, Hawks ‘24 & ‘29 FRP, Mavs 2 SRP’s.

Mavs stay under the Tax line by about 6M and can add a backup wing to replace THJ.
Oubre, Jones Jr., Javonte Green etc.

[KillerLeft]

I don't think 2 SRP brings are anywhere close. I would seek solution in getting something more than just Capela for that 2027 FRP. Toronto or Atlanta can send us lottery protected pick, for example. Or perhaps we like one of their youngsters, that are not getting minutes.

Maybe…on the other hand, THJ is a good player who I can see having a little alllure for EITHER of the teams involved, and it’s possible that simply finding a parking spot for Capella’s salary really is an obstacle that must be overcome.

This is a case where a good negotiator can make a difference, imho.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Usually you hate dinosaur bigs. What´s the difference when it comes to Capela. i see a guy that already lost some of his foot speed. Cannot really defend in space. Declined badly as a rim protector. Cannot shoot FTs. Still think that he is on a DAJ trajectory.

I have precisely the same opinion of Capela.  He's a Brontosaurus.  Hard pass.  Anyone who thinks otherwise watched few to no ATL games last year.

[Mavs2021]

There is some truth to this, but if you told me I could get a center that can provide a positive impact for 15-20 minutes a game in the regular season, but will more limited in the playoffs for one million over the min, I would take it.  That is not even taking into account the character aspect of it.

Yeah I agree with that, too. It´s just that he has been our starting center for years now. As long as you don´t try to selll me that this center by committee should be the end game of the re-structuring process, because Dwight Powell has so fine advanced stats,  we are good. It´s time to get a center that can impact rebounding, shotblocking, rim-protection and/or has some offensive skil-set. If the trade is not there right away. Fine. Just don´t come around to "we are really fine with Powell, cause RAPTOR this".

[mvossman]

If this is just some combo of THJ, McGee and maybe some 2nds, I’m into it. Hard.

If it’s a 1st, especially with the ultra light or nonexistent  protections that pick almost has to have, I’m going to be pretty blue.

That's where I'm at.  Terrible use of resources if it touches the first or any of the young guys.  But otherwise I'm good with it.  Not sure what we are going to do with Holmes.  We would have too many bigs on the roster at that point, even with McGee going out (who never really counted).

[KillerLeft]

I have precisely the same opinion of Capela.  He's a Brontosaurus.  Hard pass.  Anyone who thinks otherwise watched few to no ATL games last year.

Well, at least you’re open to other people’s opinions. 

The good news is that even if you’re only partially correct, that detracts from the idea that the Mavs can’t get him without ‘27.

I’m sorry, but setting aside the debate on what Capella has left, getting him for THJ and McGee has to be viewed as a win, given where the Mavs are right now. If that 1st is in the mix I agree with you. Hard pass.

[omahen]

Maybe…on the other hand, THJ is a good player who I can see having a little alllure for EITHER of the teams involved, and it’s possible that simply finding a parking spot for Capella’s salary really is an obstacle that must be overcome.

This is a case where a good negotiator can make a difference, imho.

Toronto basically has THJ clone in GTj. Only much younger. I doubt they see much value in getting him. Of course, they also don't see much value in Capela. But that is why they would want some assets back. If one FRP is all it takes to get Siakam, I am cutting Atlanta out of the deal and doing it alone... Expand Boston deal with THJ and McGee. It is probably enough salary to match. If not, add something more...

[KillerLeft]

That's where I'm at.  Terrible use of resources if it touches the first or any of the young guys.  But otherwise I'm good with it.  Not sure what we are going to do with Holmes.  We would have too many bigs on the roster at that point, even with McGee going out (who never really counted).

Well, they signed Powell after that Holmes trade, and so now if they do this I think we’d need to realize that they think Holmes is done and never planned to play him in the first place.

I don’t KNOW this, obviously, but I do think it’s possible. I think they wanted Omax badly enough to take on Holmes whether they thought they could wring some basketball out of him or not.

[SleepingHero]

I don't know.

I definitely see the concerns about Capela falling off and 2027 being a lot. But at the same time it's hard to imagine a better fitting center next to Luka for next season for the cost and that is actually available. We'd also be getting off of McGee's deal too, which in and of itself is worth roughly ~2 2nd rounders in terms of cost.

In terms of money, THJ almost has to be going to TOR because ATL doesn't have any other contracts that can match THJ's money right now. Bogdan can only be aggregated in September. So with that, Mavs are getting off of 24 mil and are getting back 20.6. TOR is getting off of 38 mil and is getting back either 43 mil (Hunter+Bey+THJ). ATL is getting off of 45.2 mil and is getting back 43.6 mil (Pascal+McGee).

If anything, the only other additions that make sense would be on the small scale. Who fits that? In order to avoid sending a first, are the Mavs inclined to eat OPJr and/or Thad Young? Do the Hawks instead eat OPJ to avoid having to send multiple firsts for a guy like Siakam on an expiring deal?

To try and make sending a first easier on the Mavs, can ATL tip the Mavs a guy like AJ Griffin? Griffin's salary fits perfectly into the rest of the Mavs TPE and he fits the youth movement and fills a needed position.

Putting it together:
TOR: Hunter+Bey+THJ+1st from ATL+2027 from DAL+2nds
ATL: Siakam+McGee+OPJ
DAL: Capela+Griffin

This deal keeps the Mavs roughly exactly where they are in terms of roster salary, only increasing it slightly by 700k...

Does this make sending 2027 more palatable?

Luka/Curry
Kyrie/Hardy/Exum
Green/Griffin
Williams/Maxi/Omax
Capela/Lively/Holmes/Powell

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Well, at least you’re open to other people’s opinions. 

The good news is that even if you’re only partially correct, that detracts from the idea that the Mavs can’t get him without ‘27.

I’m sorry, but setting aside the debate on what Capella has left, getting him for THJ and McGee has to be viewed as a win, given where the Mavs are right now. If that 1st is in the mix I agree with you. Hard pass.

I'm honestly on the fence of THJ for Capella.  Great teams have at least 2 superstars and at least 2 players who can dependably give you 20pts when their number is called.  THJ is our only player that gives us that right now.  Hardy will be that also, but can't be relied upon to do it now.

[omahen]

I don't know.

I definitely see the concerns about Capela falling off and 2027 being a lot. But at the same time it's hard to imagine a better fitting center next to Luka for next season for the cost and that is actually available. We'd also be getting off of McGee's deal too, which in and of itself is worth roughly ~2 2nd rounders in terms of cost.

In terms of money, THJ almost has to be going to TOR because ATL doesn't have any other contracts that can match THJ's money right now. Bogdan can only be aggregated in September. So with that, Mavs are getting off of 24 mil and are getting back 20.6. TOR is getting off of 38 mil and is getting back either 43 mil (Hunter+Bey+THJ). ATL is getting off of 45.2 mil and is getting back 43.6 mil (Pascal+McGee).

If anything, the only other additions that make sense would be on the small scale. Who fits that? In order to avoid sending a first, are the Mavs inclined to eat OPJr and/or Thad Young? Do the Hawks instead eat OPJ to avoid having to send multiple firsts for a guy like Siakam on an expiring deal?

To try and make sending a first easier on the Mavs, can ATL tip the Mavs a guy like AJ Griffin? Griffin's salary fits perfectly into the rest of the Mavs TPE and he fits the youth movement and fills a needed position.

Putting it together:
TOR: Hunter+Bey+THJ+1st from ATL+2027 from DAL+2nds
ATL: Siakam+McGee+OPJ
DAL: Capela+Griffin

This deal keeps the Mavs roughly exactly where they are in terms of roster salary, only increasing it slightly by 700k...

Does this make sending 2027 more palatable?

This is certainly a concept that could make sense. Perhaps Atlanta likes Griffin too much, but there are other interesting youngsters. Or protected FPR. I just don't believe 2 SRP can be enough to bring Dallas into the deal.

[KillerLeft]

Can’t get enamored with the shiny toy, especially since he’s not THAT shiny.

Two years of Capela while you work your lottery pick center up to speed is a nice thing, but not “near unprotected 1st rounder from a future season wherein Kyrie might be retired and Luka might be on another team” nice. I just can’t get there, sorry.

[mvossman]

Yeah I agree with that, too. It´s just that he has been our starting center for years now. As long as you don´t try to selll me that this center by committee should be the end game of the re-structuring process, because Dwight Powell has so fine advanced stats,  we are good. It´s time to get a center that can impact rebounding, shotblocking, rim-protection and/or has some offensive skil-set. If the trade is not there right away. Fine. Just don´t come around to "we are really fine with Powell, cause RAPTOR this".

I don't think anyone is arguing for Powell starting or that the committee solution they currently have is a good long term one.  But he provides way more to this team than a lot of folks give him credit for.

[SkenfromLMF]

IF Dallas sends out an unprotected 1st, what would the odds be that they can get Bey routed to Dallas. That would address the two needs they feel they have for the one asset.