The Athletic: Inside the Mavericks front office, Mark Cuban’s shadow GM…

[michaeltex]

I didn't really hear this as a "team Donnie" podcast. More of a "nothing to see here" slant.

[ClutchDirk]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=82qAFkZ6njY&feature=share

[DallasBasketball]

(Is the article shared anywhere within the 12-13 pages of this thread?. Now to my thoughts...)

First thing that comes to mind for me is where is this article coming from? 
-WHO are the sources? WHO has something to lose or gain in all of this. 
-WHY is it coming out? 

With that, I’m going to try and frame my thinking since I lack facts. This sounds like a story which fits a lot of narrative’s, but the narrative I care most about is basically 1a) and 2b)

1a) Is this indicative of Luka’s happiness and/or is Luka a minority factor while the happiness/agenda attempting to be satisfied is brought by the agent as the major factor?

2b) Is a coaching staff or GM/scout, or a combination of coaches and GM/scouts threatened in some way by the rise of this figure and the relationship to Cuban that the motivation behind this story is an offensive agenda for one or more on the staff?

I say 1a) because my concern level is high where as my concern with 2b) is just mild.

Taking a macro view I tend to believe this gambler figure was at one point well respected or at minimum well tolerated within the organization. I don’t believe the report about his control and meddling in the coaching at face value, but I do believe he could have been enabled to play a large role within the team structure by way of team shared responsibility; OR he TOOK a larger role by way of force while being tolerated within a dysfunctional structure (indicative of a Cuban problem). 

If he was tolerated and enabled within a shared responsibility structure and now 2b is playing out; those coaches or gm/scout figures could be threatened by him and are forming this offensive. 

If he was enabled by Cuban and forced his way into this level of control 2b may be playing out to get the attention of Cuban who is very biased in his thinking so this may have been the only way.

There is also a possibility within 2b Cuban enabled this but was correct about this guy’s skill and ability to impact the team and the coaching staff and or gm/scouting staff are in the wrong.


On the other hand 1a is very concerning but might be an easy band aid to tear off if simply this is an issue of a bad Apple in the organization and Luka and/or his agent are muscling to get him out. Very Lebron-like to make a move like this and I’ll accept it if this is how Luka/his agent will play ball. More power to them, we are at their mercy.

If 1a goes deeper than 1 bad Apple and is only a symptom of a dysfunctional organization headed by Cuban than we have real problems fellas. What is the chances of that? I don’t like the odds no matter how small, because I know deep down this is a possibility. And any possibility of this is extremely concerning when it could affect your team retaining and building around a star like Luka. And just makes me sick at the thought of it.

Another idea i just had for 1a is a bit wild but what if this guy is kinda like Cuban’s gm by extension and Luka’s agent wants to take this role from him to get more control in a Team Lebron like move like Lebron did with his friend.

[omahen]

I think that's why it was necessary for Tim to spend the whole day podcasting that he didn't really mean to suggest that Luka was threatening to leave or trying to throw his weight around, that there was a rift between Bob and Rick, that Bob was the cancer that needs to be rooted out, etc. 

I think the piece would have stood on its own, with the apparently solid reporting that was done about the front office dysfunction, and didn't require the added sensationalism, which only served to confuse the issue, imho.

Let me push my narrative a bit more. The article was about Voulgaris - "No one likes him, Luka hates him, Cuban is just listening to him, he made all the bad choices, pushes lineups to the coach". Cuban jumps in defending his buddy with "this is bullshit". 

But when Cato goes on podcasts he significantly pushes back the Voulgaris narrative. All of a sudden Voulgaris is a needed attempt at FO change that went wrong. Rick and him actually go along ok and Rick agreed with some suggestions. Focus in podcasts becomes obvious lack of success from team building in last decade or so which FO is responsible for. Voulgaris is part of FO for a very short time.

So what can be Cubans exit? Since he jumped to defend his buddy it would look quite strange to fire him. But Cato gives him a nice compromise solution in podcasts - reduce his role a bit, he is actually a welcome change for the organisation. But since change is so obviously needed (according to the article), Cuban can either prove article is right and double down on MBT or show he is not the one to point a finger at but the one trying to make changes with the only real thing he can do - "promote" Donnie. So if Cuban cares about his image, what will he do?

[Kammrath]

First thing that comes to mind for me is where is this article coming from? 
-WHO are the sources? WHO has something to lose or gain in all of this. 
-WHY is it coming out? 

@"mavsluvr" is required reading on this topic. Just read every post of his on this thread. I think you will learn the answers to your questions if you do. He knows what he is talking about...

[mavsluvr]

https://twitter.com/jeskeets/status/1404851235916816386

This pod mostly restated points made in previous ones, but did add a little perspective on KP. 

Cato's view is that confidence has declined that KP can be the second star that was originally envisioned. He thinks the hope is that KP can improve his shooting to elite level, and sharpen up his defense to the point that he is not a liability, and maybe is even a slight positive, on that end of the floor. He sees them as eliminating a lot of his posting up, and some of his shot creation, and using him more as a tall shooting guard, who gets his points off spot-ups, cuts, off-ball movement, etc.

[hakeemfaan]

Yes, as far as appearing to be based on multiple sources, confirmation obtained, Cuban given a chance to comment, addressing an important issue, etc.

I do think the piece was slanted to present the situation as perhaps more sensational than it really is. Particularly the headline. (Authors don't typically write their own headlines, so I don't think Cato is necessarily to blame for that.)

I think that's why it was necessary for Tim to spend the whole day podcasting that he didn't really mean to suggest that Luka was threatening to leave or trying to throw his weight around, that there was a rift between Bob and Rick, that Bob was the cancer that needs to be rooted out, etc. 

I think the piece would have stood on its own, with the apparently solid reporting that was done about the front office dysfunction, and didn't require the added sensationalism, which only served to confuse the issue, imho.

This. I also felt Luka’s name was mentioned as a crutch by whoever leaked this. Luka can go to Cuban’s office and Bob is out in 5 mins. He doesn’t need this article or leak. He has real power. Whoever leaked ths doesn’t have that power and what better way to get fans onto his side than mention Luka’s personal feelings about Bob.

[StepBackJay]

This pod mostly restated points made in previous ones, but did add a little perspective on KP. 

Cato's view is that confidence has declined that KP can be the second star that was originally envisioned. He thinks the hope is that KP can improve his shooting to elite level, and sharpen up his defense to the point that he is not a liability, and maybe is even a slight positive, on that end of the floor. He sees them as eliminating a lot of his posting up, and some of his shot creation, and using him more as a tall shooting guard, who gets his points off spot-ups, cuts, off-ball movement, etc.

That is a great and sensible plan, all things considered. If what Cato is saying is true (and I would imagine he is well-informed) then that gives me some hope. If KP is able to get there then the league perception will change of him.

[mavsluvr]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=82qAFkZ6njY&feature=share

Highlights -- 

Question as to how this article got started, particularly since Bob has not been a highly visible figure with the Mavs. Tim started hearing about these issues months ago, both inside and outside the organization. He was hearing a lot of concern with so many competing interests involved in the front office, so much confusion about how they really operated, and a sense that the team seemed to be going in the wrong direction wrt Luka’s timeline.  So he started digging, and the reporting led him in Bob's direction.  

Comment that this type of mysterious character exists on most teams. Other team executives spend a certain amount of energy wrt to other teams trying to figure out who really has authority, whom they should really be talking to, etc. In some cases, like Bob's, a guy with a title that doesn't seem to imply authority will claim to have the owner's ear, and in this case, apparently actually did. 

The piece adverted to the organization's possible re-evaluation of Rick. Cato clarified that no one is questioning whether or not Rick is a good basketball coach. Everyone agrees that he is. In fact, coaches of his quality are rare. It is more of a question as to how he is resonating with Luka. 

With respect to Bob's getting into lineup issues, most analytics groups have input into such matters, but the coaches have control. Having said that, front-office "meddling" is not an uncommon occurrence, and it usually comes from the top. Sometimes, the front office has useful ideas, sometimes they're just a nuisance. 

Rick is very good at reading the room, and discerning whose unsolicited opinions he needs to listen to. He knows he needs to care about what Luka thinks, because he is a generational superstar. He also knows that Bob has Mark's backing, and has been identified as a guy whose opinion Mark respects, so he at least seriously considers Bob's opinions, and probably actually agrees with most of them. 

What was problematic about the Bob-Rick dynamic was not so much a clash between them as a perception by the players that the rigid rotations and decline in playing time for some was being determined by Bob, which was something they didn't understand. Players never want their roles assigned by someone who is not even on the coaching staff, and that perception, whether right or wrong, has created a locker-room problem.

[Kammrath]

Players never want their roles assigned by someone who is not even on the coaching staff, and that perception, whether right or wrong, has created a locker-room problem.

Do you get the impression that Voulgaris was behind the way KP has been used by the Mavs as of late and throughout this season?

[Kammrath]

Cato clarified that no one is questioning whether or not Rick is a good basketball coach. Everyone agrees that he is. In fact, coaches of his quality are rare. It is more of a question as to how he is resonating with Luka. 

For sure, RC is a GOOD coach. But I have serious doubts about his fit with Luka, and am 100% convinced KP is not a player he fits with.

[fifteenth]

What was problematic about the Bob-Rick dynamic was not so much a clash between them as a perception by the players that the rigid rotations and decline in playing time for some was being determined by Bob, which was something they didn't understand.

I can tell the players why the rotation tightened! They lost to Sacramento so many times that the team no longer had any leeway for sufficiently resting players and spreading the workload around. They had to win in order to stay out of the play-in tournament. Those players who wanted to keep their playing time should have balled out against the bad teams so as not to create a must win, rotation tightening situation.

---

For sure, RC is a GOOD coach. But I have serious doubts about his fit with Luka, and am 100% convinced KP is not a player he fits with.

Was KP a bad fit when he played well during the bubble? Did he become a bad fit because his level of play declined? Maybe KP would fit better with a coach who could hold his joints in place for him? :-D

[mavsluvr]

Do you get the impression that Voulgaris was behind the way KP has been used by the Mavs as of late and throughout this season?

I don't have any direct knowledge about that, and haven't seen any specific reporting on it. But if Bob's role was really as described by Cato, one would have to think he had a say in it, at a minimum.

[mavsluvr]

For sure, RC is a GOOD coach. But I have serious doubts about his fit with Luka, and am 100% convinced KP is not a player he fits with.

Yes, the fit with Luka is what the organization is concerned about, according to Cato. He references times that Luka and Rick have butted heads, although those don't necessarily mean that Luka doesn't admire and respect Rick, and Rick goes out of his way to accommodate Luka. 

When questions were raised about whether Rick was long for the organization, Cuban somewhat surprisingly jumped in and denied that there was any question about Rick's tenure. Rick simultaneously rebuffed any suggestion that he might be interested in other opportunities. I wonder a little bit whether maybe Luka has given Rick the thumbs up, thus obviating the necessity to vet him through the Luka lens. Don't know, just a thought. 

I have not gotten the impression from Cato that the organization is particularly invested in ensuring Rick's fit with KP, beyond just getting along with the players in general.

[DallasBasketball]

@"mavsluvr" is required reading on this topic. Just read every post of his on this thread. I think you will learn the answers to your questions if you do. He knows what he is talking about...

Really appreciate all the work @mavsluvr has done to keep us informed on this. An hour or so later I have just read all his posts in this thread.

Now unrelated to anything I learned from Mavsluvr, I am wondering if this type of story was fed to the writer by someone who would benefit from disturbing Luka’s career as a Mav. Wild thought, but you can’t be too careful.

[mavsluvr]

I can tell the players why the rotation tightened! They lost to Sacramento so many times that the team no longer had any leeway for sufficiently resting players and spreading the workload around. They had to win in order to stay out of the play-in tournament. Those players who wanted to keep their playing time should have balled out against the bad teams so as not to create a must win, rotation tightening situation.

Yeah! If they didn't get it, they should have just asked Rick, or. . . . Bob, or . . . . Donnie, or . . . . HR, or. . . . , I don't know, whoever's running the railroad down there.

[fifteenth]

The Mark, The Don and The Bob

Ha ha!

[DanSchwartzgan]

Do you get the impression that Voulgaris was behind the way KP has been used by the Mavs as of late and throughout this season?

I’ve tried to hold off on this until I could catch up a bit.  Read the article...Listen to the podcasts ect.  It doesn’t surprise me that there is dysfunction on a Cuban-led team.  It doesn’t surprise me that this was well known around the league and finally made its way into a story.  Pretty much everyone in the organization has an interest in getting things back in order and doing it quickly, even if they don’t all agree on what that looks like.  That all makes sense to me.  BTW, Congrats to Cato for how he’s handled this and handled himself in interviews.

I’ll broaden the point you touch on here.  I’m now questioning everything I’ve seen the last year plus.  Were coaching decisions I liked or disliked made by Carlisle?  Made by Carlisle under duress?  Did he do things or not do things as a protest.  Did he put people in position to fail as a passive aggressive shot at Bob?  The quote from Hollinger I posted awhile back that he wouldn’t be surprised if Carlisle left makes sense now.  

What opportunities were missed because we don’t have a singular decision maker?  Could something more productive have happened at the TDL if not for some philosophical division within the ranks?  I need to get a new hobby if the people I entrust my fandom to can’t get their act together any better than this.  

At the base level this is a story of a new guy who rubs people the wrong way, threatens the hierarchy and has more of the bosses ear than he should.  Tale as old as time.  We’ve had all sorts of stats guys around the franchise for years.  So, it isn’t that.  It really sounds like quite a few people feel strongly that their boss is making a huge mistake and were willing to share it with whoever would listen.  As the stakes got higher (the coming off-season) the chorus probably got so loud that it couldn’t be ignored any more.

[Kammrath]

I’ll broaden the point you touch on here.  I’m now questioning everything I’ve seen the last year plus.  Were coaching decisions I liked or disliked made by Carlisle?  Made by Carlisle under duress?  Did he do things or not do things as a protest.  Did he put people in position to fail as a passive aggressive shot at Bob?  The quote from Hollinger I posted awhile back that he wouldn’t be surprised if Carlisle left makes sense now.  

What opportunities were missed because we don’t have a singular decision maker?  Could something more productive have happened at the TDL if not for some philosophical division within the ranks?  I need to get a new hobby if the people I entrust my fandom to can’t get their act together any better than this.  

YES, YES. Lock and step with you on this.

[fifteenth]

I need to get a new hobby if the people I entrust my fandom to can’t get their act together any better than this.  

At the base level this is a story of a new guy who rubs people the wrong way, threatens the hierarchy and has more of the bosses ear than he should.  Tale as old as time.  We’ve had all sorts of stats guys around the franchise for years.  So, it isn’t that.  It really sounds like quite a few people feel strongly that their boss is making a huge mistake and were willing to share it with whoever would listen.  As the stakes got higher (the coming off-season) the chorus probably got so loud that it couldn’t be ignored any more.