The Athletic: Inside the Mavericks front office, Mark Cuban’s shadow GM…

[michaeltex]

Did Donnie pee in Cato's corn flakes or something?

I'm not defending Donnie, because I think he's too comfortable sometimes. But it's like replacing a head coach, unless it's a total disaster (like IND?) you better make sure you have an improved replacement before creating the job opening.

[dirkfansince1998]

Can fire Donnie, RC or Voulgaris. Won´t change a thing as long as Cuban is still in charge. He just needs to accept that he shouldn´t make basketball decisions. That´s why you hire a GM or coach. That´s why he won´t fire Donnie. That´s why the "replacement" is a sports betting expert. Not a real GM.

[michaeltex]

On the other hand they talk about four stages for successful business team development:

• Forming
  
• Storming
  
• Norming
  
• Performing
  

Maybe this is just stage 2, but playing out in public?

[mavsluvr]

I think the whole recap could be shortened to "Donnie must go". The only dysfunctional thing Tim specifically say is "having two GMs". Voulgaris works well with Rick and obviously Cuban. Ok, Luka doesn't like him but you can solve that by keeping him from team locked away in a dark room or something. The rest is mostly rant about unsuccessful team building history. Cuban is trying to change it but hasn't done it well or enough. So, fire Donnie...

This was main message I got, both on a podcast I listened to yesterday (77 minutes) and this one now.

Tim says that this was not intended as a message piece, insofar as determining who should stay and who should go. 

He says he could see it going a number of ways -- Bob staying and Donnie going, both staying with Bob's role being cut back to something reflecting his title, or any number of other solutions. Says he does not have an educated guess as to which way the organization is leaning, just that he will be very surprised if changes aren't made to the power structure this summer. 

I did not read the piece as advocating a specific solution -- more as outlining problems.

[omahen]

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1248-the-...=ios_share&sc=ios_social_share&pr=false

This one looks like "team Donnie" podcast. Luka should pass more, the problem is not there, Voulgaris doesn't have power at all...

Not trying to make sides, just pushing my narrative Cato piece is against Donnie. 

btw: I totally agree with these guys that Luka dropping an f bomb in a high pressure situation is nothing special. It happens. How many times have I lost my nerves on the court while I basically never had at my job.

[omahen]

Tim says that this was not intended as a message piece, insofar as determining who should stay and who should go. 

He says he could see it going a number of ways -- Bob staying and Donnie going, both staying with Bob's role being cut back to something reflecting his title, or any number of other solutions. Says he does not have an educated guess as to which way the organization is leaning, just that he will be very surprised if changes aren't made to the power structure this summer. 

I did not read the piece as advocating a specific solution -- more as outlining problems.

True. But he also basically says that FO has been a failure for "20 years", failing to build around the two generational stars. How changes have to be made as they are obviously not successful. Bob is not with Mavs for 20 years - it was an attempt to change what needs to be changed.

[mavsluvr]

Did Donnie pee in Cato's corn flakes or something?

I'm not defending Donnie, because I think he's too comfortable sometimes. But it's like replacing a head coach, unless it's a total disaster (like IND?) you better make sure you have an improved replacement before creating the job opening.

Cato was not specifically advocating firing Donnie. Or keeping him, for that matter. 

However, he views the organization's performance over the past decade to be below an acceptable level, and believes, after digging, that this is primarily a front office issue. He views Mark's attempt at a solution by bringing in a new voice to have been so poorly implemented that it may have actually made matters worse. 

He views his job as reporting the facts, not as recommending a solution on his own. And apparently, there is no particular solution on the horizon that he can base any reporting on. 

Agree that it's not prudent to start firing people without a good idea of what you want to do about replacements.

[mavsluvr]

This one looks like "team Donnie" podcast. Luka should pass more, the problem is not there, Voulgaris doesn't have power at all..

Some people hear "team Donnie" in Cato's piece. Others hear "fire Donnie."  


This seems to be one of those pieces where people appear to hear a number of competing narratives.

[Kammrath]

This seems to be one of those pieces where people appear to hear a number of competing narratives.

i.e. GOOD journalism.

[SleepingHero]

I'm not defending Donnie, because I think he's too comfortable sometimes. But it's like replacing a head coach, unless it's a total disaster (like IND?) you better make sure you have an improved replacement before creating the job opening.

Hypothetically Masai Ujiri is a free agent this summer. Low chance he actually leaves but if I was a GM I'd love to be apart of building around Luka.

[mavsluvr]

This one looks like "team Donnie" podcast. Luka should pass more, the problem is not there, Voulgaris doesn't have power at all.

I didn't really hear this as a "team Donnie" podcast. More of a "nothing to see here" slant.


Mostly questioning some of the reporting, and saying that even if the incidents reported actually happened, they weren't important. Even to the point of "we've got better stories than his stories, but we're just not telling them."

My takeaway message from this pod was, "Whatever front office problems there are will get sorted out, Haralabob will either work out or no, and Luka will not leave over any of it. Moving right along. . . ." 

I think Cato's message was that this is the attitude the organization has been cultivating for years, and pushing back is warranted. 

I guess people can draw their own conclusions.

[KillerLeft]

Hmmm...seems like I picked an interesting time to take a Mavs timeout.

[JamesConway]

I didn't really hear this as a "team Donnie" podcast. More of a "nothing to see here" slant.


Mostly questioning some of the reporting, and saying that even if the incidents reported actually happened, they weren't important. Even to the point of "we've got better stories than his stories, but we're just not telling them."

My takeaway message from this pod was, "Whatever front office problems there are will get sorted out, Haralabob will either work out or no, and Luka will not leave over any of it. Moving right along. . . ." 

I think Cato's message was that this is the attitude the organization has been cultivating more years, and pushing back is warranted. 

I guess people can draw their own conclusions.

Yeah Skin is an employee and obviously has to watch what he says publicly. We can’t  expects any sort of non biased input from him on reports of this magnitude.

I just hope we get over with this quickly. Best case scenario is a real GM like Masai or Ainge taking over with the ability to keep Cuban in check. Our current guys obviously don’t have the ability to do so for whatever reasons. 

Gotta love that there is finally some public pressure on the decision makers. We didn’t have nearly enough of that over the last decade and it all went south badly for too long.

[mavsluvr]

True. But he also basically says that FO has been a failure for "20 years", failing to build around the two generational stars. How changes have to be made as they are obviously not successful. Bob is not with Mavs for 20 years - it was an attempt to change what needs to be changed.

Yes, the article was wrapped around the FO's "failures."

I don't see that he has a specific solution. 

For example, he says that Mark has been dictating front office policy for over twenty years. If the policy has been sound, but Donnie has executed it poorly, then that would be on Donnie. But there is disagreement over whether the policy itself has been sound. Josh Bowe summarized the policy post-championship as swinging for the fences on high-profile free agents, combined with making value plays on role players in order to be in position for the next home run opportunity, and argued that it was a policy that has been proven to be a failure. Cato did not disagree.  

So, does that argue that Donnie should be fired, or that Cuban should stand back and let him do his job? 

Cato also believes that bringing a new voice in was a good thing, and laments that it was so poorly implemented. He doesn't say whether he thinks that Bob was the right or wrong voice. He notes that Luka doesn't like Bob, and that Bob is poor at interpersonal skills. But also that Cuban values the new perspectives that he has brought to the organization. So, do they keep Bob and maybe keep him away from Luka? Get rid of Bob and get another high-level analytics guy? Something else?

It seems to me to be presented as a nuanced issue.

[ClutchDirk]

Hmmm...seems like I picked an interesting time to take a Mavs timeout.

You sure you weren't trying to get Bob fired Donnie?...

https://media.giphy.com/media/JOjwPXLDq5.../giphy.gif

[KillerLeft]

You sure you weren't trying to get Bob fired Donnie?...

Dude, if I was Donnie, I'd be working instead of reading/posting here. I wish.

[dynamicalVoid]

Why does Luka SUPPOSEDLY not like Bob? 

Doesnt like his personality?

or

Doesnt like his vision/analytics messing with his basketball?

or

There is no issue and the writer needed to add two isolated issues(non-issues) to make it seem like there is an issue between Luka and Bob?

[mavsluvr]

i.e. GOOD journalism.

Yes, as far as appearing to be based on multiple sources, confirmation obtained, Cuban given a chance to comment, addressing an important issue, etc.

I do think the piece was slanted to present the situation as perhaps more sensational than it really is. Particularly the headline. (Authors don't typically write their own headlines, so I don't think Cato is necessarily to blame for that.)

I think that's why it was necessary for Tim to spend the whole day podcasting that he didn't really mean to suggest that Luka was threatening to leave or trying to throw his weight around, that there was a rift between Bob and Rick, that Bob was the cancer that needs to be rooted out, etc. 

I think the piece would have stood on its own, with the apparently solid reporting that was done about the front office dysfunction, and didn't require the added sensationalism, which only served to confuse the issue, imho.

[ClutchDirk]

https://twitter.com/jeskeets/status/1404851235916816386

[ClutchDirk]

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2021/6/15/...-mavericks