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The future of center play in the NBA
#9
(09-17-2020, 10:48 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: What do you do with Shaq today genius?

Assuming he makes it to the NBA with the same game he had when he played, which I don't believe he would, since all players are being expected to develop a wider range of skills now, even at lower levels, I'd play him in spurts when I could, as long as he wasn't getting spread pick and rolled to death. When that starts, you really have no choice but to yank him. 

But, the point of my post was that the next version of Shaq won't be the last version we saw. We'll see another player with that body, eventually, but I don't think he'll be nearly as limited as Shaq was. And if that limited player exists, you'll never see him make it to the league. This is just my opinion. The job requirements have changed. 

Jokic isn't on my list because he's playing well right now, nor is he on my list because his style of play is all that similar to Bam's. He's on the list because he's a competent basketball player who is obviously a center, and not to be confused with a "tweener" like PJ Tucker, for example. Tucker is a great, great player, but not a center. I think Bam is a center. I think Anthony Davis is a center. KP...etc. 

Now, I'll agree with your point that you must tailor your strategy to the players at hand (seems obvious to me, not "outside of the box") and I'm not suggesting that treading water until you can clone Bam (or any one player) is the way to go. In fact, I don't think Bam, Jokic, Davis or KP are really all that similar in play styles, and I don't think they should be used the same way at all.

But, what they do all have in common is that they can affect the game on both sides of the ball, and in ways that create space for others. Yes, a dominant post player can do that on offense (even if that's all he can do) - I'll admit that. But, getting those sets right, getting the right position, and even throwing the post pass consistently is easier said than done. Defenders have become ungodly skilled at fronting, doubling to take away the pass, etc. If the triangle Lakers were playing today, they's spend 18 seconds trying to get Shaq the ball, then there'd be a double, and then Rick Fox would get a catch and shoot attempt that a good rotation could make pretty difficult. And he wouldn't have the option of passing, because the shot clock would be down to 2-3 seconds. 

Frankly, the league doesn't WANT their product to be that way anymore, which is why they've slowly changed the rules and the way the game is officiated. It's clear they've wanted to model the NBA game after the international style of play, which the majority of basketball purists seem to think is more fun and aesthetically pleasing. The only people I see/hear/read begging for a return to the NBA of the 90's is, well, retired players who played in the 90's. 

Basketball SHOULD BE PLAYED played inside/out - you're right about that, but you don't seem to realize that it's being played MORE inside/out now than ever before. There are TWO ways to accomplish this: 1) the post pass or 2) dribble penetration. I'm no stats guy, but I'd wager quite a bit that there are just as many points being scored in the paint now as there were in the 90's...maybe MORE! That's because there's SPACE for drivers (and again, on good teams, multiple drivers) to easily beat their main off the dribble. So you see, they're still playing the same game, only now they're doing it in a way that logic dictates they believe is easier, more efficient, and more easily tailored to their rosters (which again, I agree with you that they should do). 

Think about it: how many ball handlers right now can get into the paint literally ANY time they want? Not even Jordan could make it look as easy as maybe 20 guys do today, routinely. This is BECAUSE their center isn't there, giving the opposing center a free pass to stand between the ball and the rim like a hockey goalie. You think none of these coaches have thought "Gee, what if I just leave my big guy there anyway?" OF COURSE THEY HAVE. It doesn't work anymore, because eventually, that ball is going to find the guy not being guarded, and he's going to knock down shots like he does in practice, when nobody is contesting them. 

And let's say that I'm completely wrong about the inefficiency of building your offense out of the post. I'm not, but let's say I am. Can you honestly say that you believe Boban, Shaq (can't believe we're even comparing the two, tbh) could handle getting out to the perimeter that way these guys have to defend now? There used to be one guard who could handle and shoot (two, if a team was VERY lucky) and the forwards would be one mediocre shooter and a rebounder who literally just clogged things up (for the offense more than the defense, ironically). This resulted in a lot of 1 on 1 attempts, with the center being asked to box out and rebound. Nowadays, everyone is a threat to shoot, and the good teams have several threats to handle, so if a team wants, they can involve the center in the play defensively 20 feet from the basket on literally every play. I'm sorry, but that's just the reality.

And, just to show you that I understand where you're coming from with this, let me say that while Jokic and KP are way, way on my list of skilled players, I don't think either of them are ideal, defensively. But, if the other defenders and the schemes are developed just right, in a way to complement them, you can live with them on defense, because they play hard and there are defensive circumstances in which they can positively affect plays. Those dudes are so transformative on offense that you absolutely have to find a way to make it work with them. They can run, drive, pass, shoot. They can post up OR play out of the triple threat!

I'll repeat the most basic and blatantly true component of my post now: If you can be played off of the floor, then the good things you do don't matter, because you can't be on the floor during important moments. It's not the PRESENCE of size or even a good post player that I object to, it's the ABSENCE of skills that I consider requisite to playing at that level! Would you play a guard who couldn't dribble? 
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RE: The future of center play in the NBA - by KillerLeft - 09-17-2020, 11:32 PM

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