(12-27-2019, 02:31 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Fifteenth said it better than I could I will add one more thing. KP is not good at post ups. So we want him to do a lot more post ups even tho he's terrible at it and has this far regressed from his Knicks days? And he never was Dirk-like efficiency in there. Rick is right and the TNT guys are wrong.
My one concern with KP is he keeps adding the asterisk that he's on board with this system because we are winning. My hope is that he eventually figures out the same thing coaches and analytics people are figuring out which is that post-ups aren't the way to win basketball games. It doesn't matter that he likes them any more than it mattered that Dwight Howard used to like post ups. They are dying because there's more efficient ways to score and the Mavs have the best offense in NBA history right now.
Agree, back to the basket post up is not KP's strong suite. Carlisle himself said he doesn't mind seeing KP take a few so let's consider the few he might take for a minute.
It was never Dirk's either for that matter but I like that he never abandoned it completely, worked on it and I think it not only helped them eventually in some of their battles against Duncan and San Antonio, but it eventually bled into Dirk developing his post into the One-Legged-Fadeaway.
In that sense, maybe KP's move from the post will never look like Shaqs finishes but the ability to simply extend his massive reach and get clean shot at the rim could be just as easy to do. I think the issue is not really about simple 'Post Up' but its really about inside, close to the basket high percentage shots you can go to in the 1/2 court game. I love the modern cuts and lobs however when the defense is set and has a wall packing the paint you're not going to consistently get those against the 1/2 court defenses of elite teams. That's where the Mavs high powered offense sometimes gets shut down completely for critical stretches of games. The same thing used to happen btw with Don Nelson offenses and Mike D'Antoni offenses which never got past the top teams.
Tim Duncan's 'Post up' was often a very reliable face up bank shot. Deadly. Run killer, run extender, money in the bank when Spurs shooter were cold.
Hakeem the Dream was devastating with footwork converting post ups to pivots, dream shakes, drives. Probably the only small center I can think of that could absolutely destroy the bigger stronger Shaq from the post.
Wilt still owns all the massive scoring records with posts into finger rolls and the ultimate machine was Kareem and his post up into the Sky Hook.
As the article I linked to in the OP points out, part of the issue is simply that modern bigs aren't good at inside scoring from the post any more. Very few have developed the refined skill to find some unguardable move or two that can produce efficiently starting from the post position.
(12-27-2019, 12:24 PM)fifteenth Wrote: Somehow this post up discussion is getting mixed into the discussion about the Mavs struggling with late game execution.
The deal is, someone can claim that post ups are useful in end of game scenarios, and that's fine, but in this case it's a non-sequitor.
The Mavs end game struggles aren't about needing low post sets, they're about how to handle pressure, how to keep composure, how to keep attacking, how to execute your stuff when the other team raises the intensity.
I take some blame for that 15th. As I've said if you listen closely to the remarks by the TNT guys its not really just about 'Post Ups' but they also talk about scoring close to the basket, in the paint and high percentage baskets. This is well known about the difference that happens for example in playoff basketball when teams are prepared to defend one team and 1/2 court offense will be forced and become totally relevant.
So I suggested that the ability to hold big leads better than other teams is related to not only defense but also to being able to score high % shots that slow down the opponents ability to catch up fast. Trading 3 for 2 or even getting the missed short inside shot off the rim doesn't catch up nearly as fast as getting the long missed jumper and bringing it back to quickly drop your own 3 pointers.
So yes, I'm saying there is a relationship here between blowing big leads fast and lacking inside scoring offense.