Posts: 2,657
Threads: 6
Likes Received: 2,632 in 1,157 posts
Likes Given: 2,122
Likes Received: 2,632 in 1,157 posts
Likes Given: 2,122
Joined: Nov 2020
(10-26-2023, 07:19 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Probably not as long as THJ is getting nearly 30 minutes ![Sad Sad](https://www.mavsboard.com/images/smilies/sad.png)
But, at this point, I think you lump him in with those other three guys as one-dimensional.
Hardy's lack of minutes last night were due to injury. I would not think the minutes distribution of THJ 28, Hardy 0 will be the preferred typical plan.
But I do wonder if Hardy's defense, or the total lack thereof, is going to keep his minutes relatively low. Every time I see him used, he just doesn't seem to buy into the need to play the other end of the floor, and while THJ is certainly not a great defender by any means, I think you get way more effort on that end from him. In light of the limits of Luka and Kyrie, I think any edge in defense will really matter when it comes to getting minutes. Hopefully the kid will get it.
Posts: 4,093
Threads: 13
Likes Received: 4,058 in 1,485 posts
Likes Given: 2,084
Likes Received: 4,058 in 1,485 posts
Likes Given: 2,084
Joined: Sep 2019
(10-26-2023, 06:42 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Since this is a Green thread, I’ll mention that the Lively, GWill, Green, Luka and Irving minutes were outstanding last night. They played together mid-second (+3) and to close the second (+6). Same thing in the second half. They were together mid-fourth (-6) and closed the game +9. That grouping isn’t an issue whether you call Green a starter or not.
Sefant posted in Discord that this group had a net rating of +62 while the actual starters were -73 in net rating.
Posts: 3,718
Threads: 0
Likes Received: 3,032 in 1,624 posts
Likes Given: 2,325
Likes Received: 3,032 in 1,624 posts
Likes Given: 2,325
Joined: Dec 2020
10-26-2023, 09:12 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2023, 09:13 AM by mvossman.)
(10-26-2023, 06:42 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I don’t think you can beat Kidd up for this decision. It worked. Even the most optimistic Lively Fan Boys among us didn’t see this coming. We can’t know if we’d have seen the same thing had he started.
The Maxi minutes were awful. He had two positive stints (early second and end of third). Both of those would have been against subs. All of his minutes against starters were just awful. But, Lively can’t play 48. I’m actually more shocked at 30 minutes than I am at the scoring. He’s going to get points off of lobs. The pleasant surprise (and we saw this in preseason) is the non lob scoring. There is more to his game than the Duke highlights show. History tells me we will eventually be fine between Powell and Maxi in the non-Lively minutes once Kidd puts Lively in the starting lineup.
Since this is a Green thread, I’ll mention that the Lively, GWill, Green, Luka and Irving minutes were outstanding last night. They played together mid-second (+3) and to close the second (+6). Same thing in the second half. They were together mid-fourth (-6) and closed the game +9. That grouping isn’t an issue whether you call Green a starter or not.
What we really need is one more guy who takes the DJJ/Exum/Curry minutes (23 last night). We essentially ran a playoff-tight 7 man rotation with these three guys sharing an 8th spot. Each of them has an NBA skill, but not all the skills a rotation player needs. This kind of points out the beauty of someone like Green. He does all of the things that are the best skills of those three guys (D, secondary creation and outside shooting) at a fairly high level and is only 22. We could probably use another Green, not less of the one we have.
I can see this settling fairly quickly into a starting front court of Lively/Williams and the second unit being Powell/Maxi, with 5 or 10 minutes of small ball shenanigans.
Exum has the best chance to be the 8th man out of those guys. We need a point of attack defender when Green is off the court and he possesses some secondary playmaking skills. If his 3 translates from Europe, he will be the perfect backup to Green.
Posts: 366
Threads: 0
Likes Received: 202 in 122 posts
Likes Given: 250
Likes Received: 202 in 122 posts
Likes Given: 250
Joined: Nov 2019
10-26-2023, 09:48 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2023, 09:49 AM by Nowitzki Way.)
(10-26-2023, 09:12 AM)mvossman Wrote: I can see this settling fairly quickly into a starting front court of Lively/Williams and the second unit being Powell/Maxi, with 5 or 10 minutes of small ball shenanigans.
Exum has the best chance to be the 8th man out of those guys. We need a point of attack defender when Green is off the court and he possesses some secondary playmaking skills. If his 3 translates from Europe, he will be the perfect backup to Green.
I agree on Exum. I think he's the best of that bunch to earn more minutes. But i'm also super high on Hardy.
In a perfect world, THJ would be gone and Hardy gets most of his minutes. But having them both out there on the 2nd unit would be a disaster.
Posts: 1,751
Threads: 2
Likes Received: 1,074 in 610 posts
Likes Given: 1,119
Likes Received: 1,074 in 610 posts
Likes Given: 1,119
Joined: Mar 2021
Really happy to see the top 5 play even better than expectations, hopefully the rotation is built around that unit moving forward although we've seen weirder things from Kidd.
I agree that we established our top 7 and that one of Seth/Hardy/Exum will always be fighting for 8th man roles but I'm starting to think we may have to use Hardaway and/or Maxi to find a Maxi upgrade long term and if Hardaway leaves then two of three will end up with larger roles which I'm not necessarily opposed to.
I hope I'm wrong about Maxi but I don't think he's moving the same since his injury last year. He had a few moments last night but his defense is just not what it used to be and I feel like it may not come back. It's important that we have a center on roster that allows us to play 5 out (those PJ Washington rumors come immediately to mind) but if Maxi is playing at this level all year then he's really not playable. I'm not one to look at individual +/- but I will say that the +/- between Lively and Maxi tells the story of last night pretty well.
I could be wrong though and Maxi is just doing weird Maxi stuff. He was playing probably the worst basketball of his career the month leading into our conference finals run but that was a major injury ago.
Posts: 4,093
Threads: 13
Likes Received: 4,058 in 1,485 posts
Likes Given: 2,084
Likes Received: 4,058 in 1,485 posts
Likes Given: 2,084
Joined: Sep 2019
Some fun with numbers (since we all know that advanced stats are the be-all/end-all in the NBA).
YTD our rookie center has a PER of 24.7. He leads the team in WS/48 at a superstar level .308 (some guy named Luka is second at .268 and Josh Green is third at .223). Lively this season sports an O/D-Rating of 165/109, but Green is actually the offensive juggernaut for this team at 177/114. Fortunately some guy from Slovenia is holding the D together with a 105 D-Rating.
Lively also leads the team in the all-important On-Minus-Off rating at 64.7 (thank you Maxi). Omahen was always quick to point out that not everyone can have a positive On-Court when I pointed out that we rid ourselves of all the negative On-Court guys from last season. He was right of course as only 9 of our 11 players were positive last night (led by Curry at +50 in four minutes of play).
Non-starters Lively and Green also lead the team in shooting this season with TS%’s of .858 and .814 respectively. I predict that if they keep that up, they will eventually find their way into the starting lineup.
Posts: 1,751
Threads: 2
Likes Received: 1,074 in 610 posts
Likes Given: 1,119
Likes Received: 1,074 in 610 posts
Likes Given: 1,119
Joined: Mar 2021
(10-26-2023, 10:40 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I predict that if they keep that up, they will eventually find their way into the starting lineup.
Ya, like within 48 hours hopefully.
Posts: 9,516
Threads: 26
Likes Received: 2,737 in 1,539 posts
Likes Given: 1,856
Likes Received: 2,737 in 1,539 posts
Likes Given: 1,856
Joined: Sep 2019
I was busy whole day, so I will just post my observations here, before reading the actual game thread. Mavs won, although the overall performance was not that impressive. Defense, especially first half, was terrible. Offense remains three point heavy, which is ok as long as the teams shoots well. 31 % was far from impressive, but enough for SA.
Lively was of course awesome, far above anything it was expected in the summer or preseason. Hope he can keep it up. Maxi being terrible made him look even greater. On the Maxi topic - wasn't it established long ago, that Maxi as the only big on the floor just doesn't work?
DJJ "experiment" (predictably) failed in the first instance, although his pairing with Maxi makes way more sense than with Lively. Defense was terrible even with him on the court at game start and he doesn't bring much (anything in this game) to offense. Personally I still firmly believe any team should start 5 best players and rotate afterwards. Green is the clear starter as the second guard and the only possible alternative (imho) that could be considered is THJ.
Green was basically himself. Always active and still passive offensively. Five shots in 30 minutes is just meh. Its great that he hits most of those, but Guys like THJ have zero problem launching almost every time they touch the ball, while Green is the definition of opposite. If he wants to earn big money anytime in his career, he will have to step it up. Good things do happen when he is on court, the question is if that is good enough for a starter spot on a contender.
GW was efficient and is quick to pull the trigger. The rest were around at what is expected from them. Kyrie was not terribly efficient, but we can expect this is more of a one game thing.
Looks like Mavs don't intend to play Holmes, as he didn't saw the floor even with Powell out and Maxi being bad. I wish some minutes would be found for OMax.
Posts: 3,718
Threads: 0
Likes Received: 3,032 in 1,624 posts
Likes Given: 2,325
Likes Received: 3,032 in 1,624 posts
Likes Given: 2,325
Joined: Dec 2020
(10-26-2023, 11:07 AM)omahen Wrote: I was busy whole day, so I will just post my observations here, before reading the actual game thread. Mavs won, although the overall performance was not that impressive. Defense, especially first half, was terrible. Offense remains three point heavy, which is ok as long as the teams shoots well. 31 % was far from impressive, but enough for SA.
Lively was of course awesome, far above anything it was expected in the summer or preseason. Hope he can keep it up. Maxi being terrible made him look even greater. On the Maxi topic - wasn't it established long ago, that Maxi as the only big on the floor just doesn't work?
DJJ "experiment" (predictably) failed in the first instance, although his pairing with Maxi makes way more sense than with Lively. Defense was terrible even with him on the court at game start and he doesn't bring much (anything in this game) to offense. Personally I still firmly believe any team should start 5 best players and rotate afterwards. Green is the clear starter as the second guard and the only possible alternative (imho) that could be considered is THJ.
Green was basically himself. Always active and still passive offensively. Five shots in 30 minutes is just meh. Its great that he hits most of those, but Guys like THJ have zero problem launching almost every time they touch the ball, while Green is the definition of opposite. If he wants to earn big money anytime in his career, he will have to step it up. Good things do happen when he is on court, the question is if that is good enough for a starter spot on a contender.
GW was efficient and is quick to pull the trigger. The rest were around at what is expected from them. Kyrie was not terribly efficient, but we can expect this is more of a one game thing.
Looks like Mavs don't intend to play Holmes, as he didn't saw the floor even with Powell out and Maxi being bad. I wish some minutes would be found for OMax.
I agree with most of this, but Maxi as the only big was a big part of our WCF run. The problem is he doesn't look like the same player right now. I'm worried this is the new Maxi, and if that is the case that contract is not good. I will give it more than one game, but it is a concern.
Posts: 13,722
Threads: 342
Likes Received: 5,305 in 2,985 posts
Likes Given: 3,085
Likes Received: 5,305 in 2,985 posts
Likes Given: 3,085
Joined: Sep 2019
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
Posts: 1,056
Threads: 1
Likes Received: 276 in 189 posts
Likes Given: 958
Likes Received: 276 in 189 posts
Likes Given: 958
Joined: Oct 2022
As much as I was harping on Luka to play off the ball, it seems the focus is for him to add defense to game and stop complaining to the refs. IMO, this is SO MUCH more important than playing off the ball. Luka has shown flashes of defensive brilliance; it's just been a matter focus and dedication. This could make Luka the hands down best player in the league.
Posts: 1,365
Threads: 0
Likes Received: 507 in 299 posts
Likes Given: 853
Likes Received: 507 in 299 posts
Likes Given: 853
Joined: Sep 2019
Kyrie played a team-high 36 minutes, while Luka played 34 (Williams played 35). Are these good target PTs for our star players, specifically Kyrie?
He was sort of the Swiss Army knife and will be a key to success this season, and hopefully post-season.
Posts: 1,335
Threads: 5
Likes Received: 759 in 443 posts
Likes Given: 2,436
Likes Received: 759 in 443 posts
Likes Given: 2,436
Joined: Mar 2020
(10-27-2023, 10:25 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: As much as I was harping on Luka to play off the ball, it seems the focus is for him to add defense to game and stop complaining to the refs. IMO, this is SO MUCH more important than playing off the ball. Luka has shown flashes of defensive brilliance; it's just been a matter focus and dedication. This could make Luka the hands down best player in the league.
It also seems like Luka was intent on pushing the ball up the court, unlike last year.
Maybe they made him read “Seven Seconds or Less” this summer.
Posts: 1,017
Threads: 8
Likes Received: 708 in 402 posts
Likes Given: 1,048
Likes Received: 708 in 402 posts
Likes Given: 1,048
Joined: Nov 2022
The averages should come down a little due to blowouts. But yeah, mid 30s is pretty darn common.
Pessimism doesn’t make you smart, just pessimistic.
Posts: 6,571
Threads: 17
Likes Received: 3,261 in 1,907 posts
Likes Given: 180
Likes Received: 3,261 in 1,907 posts
Likes Given: 180
Joined: Oct 2020
(10-27-2023, 11:45 AM)michaeltex Wrote: Kyrie played a team-high 36 minutes, while Luka played 34 (Williams played 35). Are these good target PTs for our star players, specifically Kyrie?
He was sort of the Swiss Army knife and will be a key to success this season, and hopefully post-season.
We will see. Luka prefers to play the whole quarter but i liked him getting breaks earlier. With this being early in the year and him coming off an injury, I would like to see them do this to start the year. I think Luka likes getting into a flow, but I think at the end of quarters where he plays the whole quarter is where you also get the lazy step back shots, the mental mistakes and the complaining.
One of the things I think that gets passed over last year that the coaching staff and front office deserve massive blame for is the overplaying of Luka. There were games mid year where he was playing the full second half. That is malpractice. Kidd for doing it and the front office for not getting the right kind of support players here. We saw Luka was broken down by the time of the Kyrie trade. Was the overplaying the reason for this? Maybe or maybe not. Or maybe just a part. But just a terrible plan all the way around.
Posts: 4,832
Threads: 22
Likes Received: 1,159 in 659 posts
Likes Given: 3,530
Likes Received: 1,159 in 659 posts
Likes Given: 3,530
Joined: Sep 2019
(10-27-2023, 12:18 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: We will see. Luka prefers to play the whole quarter but i liked him getting breaks earlier. With this being early in the year and him coming off an injury, I would like to see them do this to start the year. I think Luka likes getting into a flow, but I think at the end of quarters where he plays the whole quarter is where you also get the lazy step back shots, the mental mistakes and the complaining.
One of the things I think that gets passed over last year that the coaching staff and front office deserve massive blame for is the overplaying of Luka. There were games mid year where he was playing the full second half. That is malpractice. Kidd for doing it and the front office for not getting the right kind of support players here. We saw Luka was broken down by the time of the Kyrie trade. Was the overplaying the reason for this? Maybe or maybe not. Or maybe just a part. But just a terrible plan all the way around.
If the plan was to get us Dereck Lively, I'll take it.
Posts: 618
Threads: 1
Likes Received: 712 in 325 posts
Likes Given: 502
Likes Received: 712 in 325 posts
Likes Given: 502
Joined: Jun 2021
(10-27-2023, 11:45 AM)michaeltex Wrote: Kyrie played a team-high 36 minutes, while Luka played 34 (Williams played 35). Are these good target PTs for our star players, specifically Kyrie?
He was sort of the Swiss Army knife and will be a key to success this season, and hopefully post-season.
Kyrie probably deserves more love on this board. He seems like an ideal superstar next to Luka- willing to defer on offense and play off-ball but able to step in and run the offense at an elite level when Luka rests.
Kyrie works hard on defense as well and although he's not great defensively, he's better than a lot of other superstar point guards- e.g. Dame Lillard, Steph Curry and Ja Morant.
I still think the Kyrie trade was one of the best moves the Mavericks organization has made since 2011. I also think Kyrie took a small discount to stay a Maverick. I am aware of his off-court history elsewhere but thus far, he has been excellent as a Maverick so I'll judge him based upon that.
Posts: 1,056
Threads: 1
Likes Received: 276 in 189 posts
Likes Given: 958
Likes Received: 276 in 189 posts
Likes Given: 958
Joined: Oct 2022
(10-27-2023, 01:32 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: Kyrie probably deserves more love on this board. He seems like an ideal superstar next to Luka- willing to defer on offense and play off-ball but able to step in and run the offense at an elite level when Luka rests.
Kyrie works hard on defense as well and although he's not great defensively, he's better than a lot of other superstar point guards- e.g. Dame Lillard, Steph Curry and Ja Morant.
I still think the Kyrie trade was one of the best moves the Mavericks organization has made since 2011. I also think Kyrie took a small discount to stay a Maverick. I am aware of his off-court history elsewhere but thus far, he has been excellent as a Maverick so I'll judge him based upon that.
As it pertains to his willingness to default to Luka, 100%. As it pertains to size and position, not as much. In a perfect world you match Luka with a superstar big SF, a PF, or a C. But, because Luka is either a point SF/PF or huge PG, Kyrie works, or should work.
Posts: 274
Threads: 0
Likes Received: 181 in 94 posts
Likes Given: 24
Likes Received: 181 in 94 posts
Likes Given: 24
Joined: Jun 2021
Kyrie does deserve more love. He's barely been here and immediately took a team friendly deal. Gotta respect the team first players that are focused on winning over getting every possible cent. I don't think there's any amount of his random off court drama that should make his salary less than FVV but here we are.
Posts: 15,375
Threads: 52
Likes Received: 7,650 in 4,196 posts
Likes Given: 9,407
Likes Received: 7,650 in 4,196 posts
Likes Given: 9,407
Joined: Aug 2020
This is the first video of this gentleman's that I've come across. I guess YouTube knows how much I love Luka, at this point. Anyway, I don't think he's a Mavs content creator, but rather the NBA as a whole, and I have to say I think he hits the nail on the head with pretty much every word of this. Pretty good watch, imho.
https://youtu.be/wC9SnWgO0FM?si=uXqY3sEpfCESPwK4
|