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09-12-2020, 10:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2020, 10:48 PM by dirkfansince1998.)
(09-12-2020, 10:25 PM)cow Wrote: Imagine if you could deploy DFS, Tucker, Maxi and RoCo on the same team. Release the hounds.
That´s a dream come true. Maybe they just need less length/size/defense and more shooting. THJ is a natural fit in Houston. High volume 3-point chucker with questionable shot selection and bad defense. Make it happen Donnie.
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(09-12-2020, 10:43 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: They aren´t bigs.
I know that. It's obvious. That's why I put "bigs" in quotation marks like that. Sorry if it wasn't clear. I was simply agreeing with you that either is more suited to playing small ball big than Finney-Smith.
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(09-12-2020, 10:47 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: (09-12-2020, 10:25 PM)cow Wrote: Imagine if you could deploy DFS, Tucker, Maxi and RoCo on the same team. Release the hounds.
That´s a dream come true. Maybe they just need less length and defense and more shooting. THJ is a natural fit in Houston. High volume 3-point chucker with questionable shot selection and bad defense. Make it happen Donnie.
I think Morey and D'Antoni are gone so it could be open season to peck at Houston's corpse.
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(09-12-2020, 10:18 PM)cow Wrote: Miami also has Herro so they could offer some combination of Herro, Nunn, Robinson, Adebayo and they could also employee your future draft pick/pick swap strategy if they only wanted to give up two of four. That pu pu platter returns better talent than what the Mavs would offer if KP isn't part of the deal. I'd certainly turn the Mavs pu pu platter offer down if I'm MIL.
You also criticize the what's left scenario for Miami but don't do the same for the Mavs. If KP is in the deal, Giannis would arguably end up on a worse team that what he is leaving or what he could demand to be traded to (Miami). Plus he'd be in Miami which is a desirable location and with Pat Riley and continues to put title contending product on the court.
Maybe Giannis loves Luka, but if I'm going to take the reputation hit of leaving my team, there are surer bets out there.
I just totally disagree with you.
If Miami trades Adebayo+Robinson+Nunn+Herro+Plus the same amount of picks(and 10.7M contract to match the money Olynyk works if he opts in)that the Mavs offer, the rest of their roster will be as follows. Jimmy Butler, Giannis, Andre Igoudala, KZ Okapala (2-way), and Chris Silva. They'd have Dragic, Crowder, Udonis Haslem, Solomon Hill, DJJ. and Myers Leonard as cap holds. Miami in terms of draft capital remarkably looks similar to Dallas' own cupboard. First 1st rounder they can trade is 2025. If they kept all their FA, their team would be
Dragic/----
Butler/DJJ
Giannis/Hill
Crowder/Haslem
Leonard/----
With 0 cap space and a 6 mil taxpayer MLE to use.
In the 2 trade scenario's I proposed, 1 had KP+Brunson+Dodo+8 draft picks for Giannis and any bad contracts MIL wanted to get off. Which is as strong as any other offer that can be proposed by other teams. The other was based around a deal that OKC took for PG, that had Brunson+Wright+Dodo+THJ+10 draft picks with zero protections for Giannis and whatever bad contracts. In 1 case, Dallas still retains Kleber, Curry, Wright, Boban, Powell, THJ, and Jackson to pair with Luka and Giannis. A team that is as deep if not deeper than Miami's. In the other, Dallas creates a super big 3 that would be better than any other core of any other team. So either way Dallas would still be a better team.
BUT what is the major X-factor, and why no matter what Miami would be worse than Dallas is because Miami doesn't have Luka Wonderboy Doncic. He is better than every single player on the Heat. 31 year old Jimmy Butler does not compare to Luka. No duo in the league would be better than Giannis and Luka.
Because of Luka, the Mavs have the least amount of risk in throwing in as many draft picks as possible. By 2029 Luka will be 29 turning 30. For the Heat, Butler would be 39 turning 40. So I don't think any team could match the Mavs in terms of draft capital if the Mavs really want to throw all their chips in.
Obviously I'm biased, but because of how freaking good Luka Doncic is (remember he's a 30/10/10 player), it allows the Mavs for once to be actually competitive in these conversations.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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(09-12-2020, 11:28 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: (09-12-2020, 10:18 PM)cow Wrote: Miami also has Herro so they could offer some combination of Herro, Nunn, Robinson, Adebayo and they could also employee your future draft pick/pick swap strategy if they only wanted to give up two of four. That pu pu platter returns better talent than what the Mavs would offer if KP isn't part of the deal. I'd certainly turn the Mavs pu pu platter offer down if I'm MIL.
You also criticize the what's left scenario for Miami but don't do the same for the Mavs. If KP is in the deal, Giannis would arguably end up on a worse team that what he is leaving or what he could demand to be traded to (Miami). Plus he'd be in Miami which is a desirable location and with Pat Riley and continues to put title contending product on the court.
Maybe Giannis loves Luka, but if I'm going to take the reputation hit of leaving my team, there are surer bets out there.
I just totally disagree with you.
If Miami trades Adebayo+Robinson+Nunn+Herro+Plus the same amount of picks(and 10.7M contract to match the money Olynyk works if he opts in)that the Mavs offer, the rest of their roster will be as follows. Jimmy Butler, Giannis, Andre Igoudala, KZ Okapala (2-way), and Chris Silva. They'd have Dragic, Crowder, Udonis Haslem, Solomon Hill, DJJ. and Myers Leonard as cap holds. Miami in terms of draft capital remarkably looks similar to Dallas' own cupboard. First 1st rounder they can trade is 2025. If they kept all their FA, their team would be
Dragic/----
Butler/DJJ
Giannis/Hill
Crowder/Haslem
Leonard/----
With 0 cap space and a 6 mil taxpayer MLE to use.
In the 2 trade scenario's I proposed, 1 had KP+Brunson+Dodo+8 draft picks for Giannis and any bad contracts MIL wanted to get off. Which is as strong as any other offer that can be proposed by other teams. The other was based around a deal that OKC took for PG, that had Brunson+Wright+Dodo+THJ+10 draft picks with zero protections for Giannis and whatever bad contracts. In 1 case, Dallas still retains Kleber, Curry, Wright, Boban, Powell, THJ, and Jackson to pair with Luka and Giannis. A team that is as deep if not deeper than Miami's. In the other, Dallas creates a super big 3 that would be better than any other core of any other team. So either way Dallas would still be a better team.
BUT what is the major X-factor, and why no matter what Miami would be worse than Dallas is because Miami doesn't have Luka Wonderboy Doncic. He is better than every single player on the Heat. 31 year old Jimmy Butler does not compare to Luka. No duo in the league would be better than Giannis and Luka.
Because of Luka, the Mavs have the least amount of risk in throwing in as many draft picks as possible. By 2029 Luka will be 29 turning 30. For the Heat, Butler would be 39 turning 40. So I don't think any team could match the Mavs in terms of draft capital if the Mavs really want to throw all their chips in.
Obviously I'm biased, but because of how freaking good Luka Doncic is (remember he's a 30/10/10 player), it allows the Mavs for once to be actually competitive in these conversations.
I didn't say all four, a said a combination of two-three of the 4 plus the same pick/swap strategy is a stronger offer than your idea of a non-KP Mavs package. And if you did have to include KP then Giannis would have a stronger team to compete immediately by staying put or demanding his way to Miami. Giannis has a ton of leverage here because of his ability to sign an extension or not to entice or scare away suitors.
Obviously I'd love Giannis here and I adore Luka, but don't overvalue him or at least, don't count out the many downsides to Dallas (MBT team building capabilities and while Carlisle is a great coach, I don't think most players like playing for him and the power dynamic in the NBA has completely shifted to players).
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Always a good day when the Rockets get sent home! Now I can finally stop hearing from Rockets fans talking about how small ball is unstoppable and how their defense is elite
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(09-12-2020, 11:39 PM)cow Wrote: (09-12-2020, 11:28 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: (09-12-2020, 10:18 PM)cow Wrote: Miami also has Herro so they could offer some combination of Herro, Nunn, Robinson, Adebayo and they could also employee your future draft pick/pick swap strategy if they only wanted to give up two of four. That pu pu platter returns better talent than what the Mavs would offer if KP isn't part of the deal. I'd certainly turn the Mavs pu pu platter offer down if I'm MIL.
You also criticize the what's left scenario for Miami but don't do the same for the Mavs. If KP is in the deal, Giannis would arguably end up on a worse team that what he is leaving or what he could demand to be traded to (Miami). Plus he'd be in Miami which is a desirable location and with Pat Riley and continues to put title contending product on the court.
Maybe Giannis loves Luka, but if I'm going to take the reputation hit of leaving my team, there are surer bets out there.
I just totally disagree with you.
If Miami trades Adebayo+Robinson+Nunn+Herro+Plus the same amount of picks(and 10.7M contract to match the money Olynyk works if he opts in)that the Mavs offer, the rest of their roster will be as follows. Jimmy Butler, Giannis, Andre Igoudala, KZ Okapala (2-way), and Chris Silva. They'd have Dragic, Crowder, Udonis Haslem, Solomon Hill, DJJ. and Myers Leonard as cap holds. Miami in terms of draft capital remarkably looks similar to Dallas' own cupboard. First 1st rounder they can trade is 2025. If they kept all their FA, their team would be
Dragic/----
Butler/DJJ
Giannis/Hill
Crowder/Haslem
Leonard/----
With 0 cap space and a 6 mil taxpayer MLE to use.
In the 2 trade scenario's I proposed, 1 had KP+Brunson+Dodo+8 draft picks for Giannis and any bad contracts MIL wanted to get off. Which is as strong as any other offer that can be proposed by other teams. The other was based around a deal that OKC took for PG, that had Brunson+Wright+Dodo+THJ+10 draft picks with zero protections for Giannis and whatever bad contracts. In 1 case, Dallas still retains Kleber, Curry, Wright, Boban, Powell, THJ, and Jackson to pair with Luka and Giannis. A team that is as deep if not deeper than Miami's. In the other, Dallas creates a super big 3 that would be better than any other core of any other team. So either way Dallas would still be a better team.
BUT what is the major X-factor, and why no matter what Miami would be worse than Dallas is because Miami doesn't have Luka Wonderboy Doncic. He is better than every single player on the Heat. 31 year old Jimmy Butler does not compare to Luka. No duo in the league would be better than Giannis and Luka.
Because of Luka, the Mavs have the least amount of risk in throwing in as many draft picks as possible. By 2029 Luka will be 29 turning 30. For the Heat, Butler would be 39 turning 40. So I don't think any team could match the Mavs in terms of draft capital if the Mavs really want to throw all their chips in.
Obviously I'm biased, but because of how freaking good Luka Doncic is (remember he's a 30/10/10 player), it allows the Mavs for once to be actually competitive in these conversations.
I didn't say all four, a said a combination of two-three of the 4 plus the same pick/swap strategy is a stronger offer than your idea of a non-KP Mavs package. And if you did have to include KP then Giannis would have a stronger team to compete immediately by staying put or demanding his way to Miami. Giannis has a ton of leverage here because of his ability to sign an extension or not to entice or scare away suitors.
Obviously I'd love Giannis here and I adore Luka, but don't overvalue him or at least, don't count out the many downsides to Dallas (MBT team building capabilities and while Carlisle is a great coach, I don't think most players like playing for him and the power dynamic in the NBA has completely shifted to players).
Based on what? Every star that has played under RC had nothing but high praise for him.
Reggie Miller, Ron Artest, Billups, Dirk. Those are the only players whose opinion matter to a guy like Giannis. Never mind Lebron was pushing for Cavs to get him when they had Blatt.
Giannis is a winner, he is here to make a legacy, and RC is the type of coach who will make him win.
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https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/statu...98788?s=20
The Rockets are out of real moves imo. Westbrick didn't work and now you have to live with that choice.
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Bradley Beal trade request video:
https://streamable.com/msm5u3
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09-13-2020, 11:57 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2020, 12:16 PM by StepBackJay.)
(09-13-2020, 09:09 AM)Hypermav Wrote: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/statu...98788?s=20
I think they can swap some pieces. Doesn't mean they'll get better. I would like them to get Ibaka who would actually be a fit there and would recreate the OKC Thunder minus Durant which I know we all want to see. The ultra small ball is dumb to me, you want shot-blocking. Why not get a big that can shoot outside? You get Ibaka or any PF/C hybrid that can block shots and shoot outside and you are a lot better.
Miami will probably just wait and try to land Giannis in 2021 unless it becomes clear that the Bucks will have to trade him now. I don't think they will do that, most teams don't give up on their star unless and until the star demands a trade.
IF Giannis told the Bucks to trade him things would get interesting. At that point Miami and others would have to calculate whether or not shedding all their assets to outbid a rival team is worth it. Miami has a lot of good players. Raptors would have Siakam. Giannis would have a short-list of teams I am sure so some teams like the 76ers may or may not be in the running even if they have assets.
I don't see the motivation for Giannis to do that. Sure he could go to Miami with Butler and cap space that could then add another max guy but you don't want to waste a year assembling a team. If you have to wait a year before the roster is set then you are worse off then if you just give the Bucks one year to build a championship team. Why not do that, leave on a high note and go to a Miami or Toronto team that still has assets they would otherwise be giving up for you?
I see very little reason why Giannis would demand a trade now and absent that there is no reason for the Bucks to trade him unless they are convinced and terrified he's leaving no matter what. We have seen for the most part front offices try to keep their guy even if it means losing him for nothing.
The only advantage the Mavs have is that they would be willing to give up any non-KP, Luka assets without a guarantee that Giannis would resign. I am sure they would give up their entire roster leaving just Giannis, Luka and KP + whatever cruft the Bucks don't want. Bucks would then be in full tear-down mode and sell off all their assets for picks.
Again I don't see that happening. Bucks could just try to win a championship even if they are 50/50 on it working. The Raptors went all-in on Kawhi and won a championship. The Bucks would have the advantage that if they DID win a championship, Giannis would probably stay.
If you think you are losing your star and will have to do a tear-down anyway why not just see what happens? If you aren't getting a star in return you might as well wait.
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09-13-2020, 12:18 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2020, 12:19 PM by Tyler.)
(09-13-2020, 09:09 AM)Hypermav Wrote: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/statu...98788?s=20
"We're a piece away."
Compare and contrast to an equally disappointed Luka talking after game 6 about how he loves his teammates and wants to improve his own game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKtENcfUSuU
Harden has played with 115 teammates over the years. His attitude is Houston's problem in a nutshell. https://www.basketball-reference.com/fri...s%20Harden&pid=hardeja01&idx=players&type=t
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09-13-2020, 01:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2020, 01:30 PM by Kammrath.)
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D'Antoni is a smart dude, and this a smart move.
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(09-13-2020, 01:30 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: D'Antoni is a smart dude, and this a smart move.
Yep, have to think the PHI job might already be unofficially lined up for him.
HOU is a cesspool right now and that is not going to change until Harden is gone.
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09-13-2020, 01:35 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2020, 01:38 PM by cow.)
(09-13-2020, 04:33 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: (09-12-2020, 11:39 PM)cow Wrote: (09-12-2020, 11:28 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: (09-12-2020, 10:18 PM)cow Wrote: Miami also has Herro so they could offer some combination of Herro, Nunn, Robinson, Adebayo and they could also employee your future draft pick/pick swap strategy if they only wanted to give up two of four. That pu pu platter returns better talent than what the Mavs would offer if KP isn't part of the deal. I'd certainly turn the Mavs pu pu platter offer down if I'm MIL.
You also criticize the what's left scenario for Miami but don't do the same for the Mavs. If KP is in the deal, Giannis would arguably end up on a worse team that what he is leaving or what he could demand to be traded to (Miami). Plus he'd be in Miami which is a desirable location and with Pat Riley and continues to put title contending product on the court.
Maybe Giannis loves Luka, but if I'm going to take the reputation hit of leaving my team, there are surer bets out there.
I just totally disagree with you.
If Miami trades Adebayo+Robinson+Nunn+Herro+Plus the same amount of picks(and 10.7M contract to match the money Olynyk works if he opts in)that the Mavs offer, the rest of their roster will be as follows. Jimmy Butler, Giannis, Andre Igoudala, KZ Okapala (2-way), and Chris Silva. They'd have Dragic, Crowder, Udonis Haslem, Solomon Hill, DJJ. and Myers Leonard as cap holds. Miami in terms of draft capital remarkably looks similar to Dallas' own cupboard. First 1st rounder they can trade is 2025. If they kept all their FA, their team would be
Dragic/----
Butler/DJJ
Giannis/Hill
Crowder/Haslem
Leonard/----
With 0 cap space and a 6 mil taxpayer MLE to use.
In the 2 trade scenario's I proposed, 1 had KP+Brunson+Dodo+8 draft picks for Giannis and any bad contracts MIL wanted to get off. Which is as strong as any other offer that can be proposed by other teams. The other was based around a deal that OKC took for PG, that had Brunson+Wright+Dodo+THJ+10 draft picks with zero protections for Giannis and whatever bad contracts. In 1 case, Dallas still retains Kleber, Curry, Wright, Boban, Powell, THJ, and Jackson to pair with Luka and Giannis. A team that is as deep if not deeper than Miami's. In the other, Dallas creates a super big 3 that would be better than any other core of any other team. So either way Dallas would still be a better team.
BUT what is the major X-factor, and why no matter what Miami would be worse than Dallas is because Miami doesn't have Luka Wonderboy Doncic. He is better than every single player on the Heat. 31 year old Jimmy Butler does not compare to Luka. No duo in the league would be better than Giannis and Luka.
Because of Luka, the Mavs have the least amount of risk in throwing in as many draft picks as possible. By 2029 Luka will be 29 turning 30. For the Heat, Butler would be 39 turning 40. So I don't think any team could match the Mavs in terms of draft capital if the Mavs really want to throw all their chips in.
Obviously I'm biased, but because of how freaking good Luka Doncic is (remember he's a 30/10/10 player), it allows the Mavs for once to be actually competitive in these conversations.
I didn't say all four, a said a combination of two-three of the 4 plus the same pick/swap strategy is a stronger offer than your idea of a non-KP Mavs package. And if you did have to include KP then Giannis would have a stronger team to compete immediately by staying put or demanding his way to Miami. Giannis has a ton of leverage here because of his ability to sign an extension or not to entice or scare away suitors.
Obviously I'd love Giannis here and I adore Luka, but don't overvalue him or at least, don't count out the many downsides to Dallas (MBT team building capabilities and while Carlisle is a great coach, I don't think most players like playing for him and the power dynamic in the NBA has completely shifted to players).
Based on what? Every star that has played under RC had nothing but high praise for him.
Reggie Miller, Ron Artest, Billups, Dirk. Those are the only players whose opinion matter to a guy like Giannis. Never mind Lebron was pushing for Cavs to get him when they had Blatt.
Giannis is a winner, he is here to make a legacy, and RC is the type of coach who will make him win.
Every star? How'd that Rondo trade work out for us? He also butted heads with Kidd before relinquishing the keys to the offense. I'm sure Kidd would only say positive things about Carlisle now (winning a chip helps and the coaches fraternity) but there is more to that story. There are grumblings throughout the league about Carlisle and the landscape has changed. And credit to Rick for realizing this and changing his approach with Luka.
(09-13-2020, 12:18 PM)Tyler Wrote: (09-13-2020, 09:09 AM)Hypermav Wrote: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/statu...98788?s=20
"We're a piece away."
Compare and contrast to an equally disappointed Luka talking after game 6 about how he loves his teammates and wants to improve his own game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKtENcfUSuU
Harden has played with 115 teammates over the years. His attitude is Houston's problem in a nutshell. https://www.basketball-reference.com/fri...s%20Harden&pid=hardeja01&idx=players&type=t
Not really a fair comparison. Luka is young and hasn't faced the disappointment that James has. James is also smart enough to know that his window in Houston has closed thanks to all the moves Morey has made. They've painted themselves in a corner.
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(09-13-2020, 01:35 PM)cow Wrote: moves Morey has made
Morey? It was Harden who demanded CP3 trade and brought his buddy Westbrook. This was crucial for this year demise. Because of this trade Houston had to get rid of Capella, as you can't survive with two non shooters in the line-up.
Why Harden demanded a trade? Because CP3 commented that Harden type of play might not be best possible, which is totally true. CP3 is a very high IQ basketball player, one of best. Harden should listen, not sulk.
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Look, I don't know who was the driving force behind creating the style of play and roster approach in Houston. I don't know who was responsible for bringing CP3 there. You could tell me Morey, D'Antoni, Harden, or a combination of all, and it would make sense.
What seems clear is that they traded for Westbrook, who 100% of the basketball world knew instantly would not fit, because Harden couldn't get along with Paul. So, we can put that one on him, because you'll never convince me that Morey or D'Antoni wanted that dude there.
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(09-13-2020, 01:46 PM)omahen Wrote: (09-13-2020, 01:35 PM)cow Wrote: moves Morey has made
Morey? It was Harden who demanded CP3 trade and brought his buddy Westbrook. This was crucial for this year demise. Because of this trade Houston had to get rid of Capella, as you can't survive with two non shooters in the line-up.
Why Harden demanded a trade? Because CP3 commented that Harden type of play might not be best possible, which is totally true. CP3 is a very high IQ basketball player, one of best. Harden should listen, not sulk.
There is more to the Houston mess than the most recent Westbrook trade.
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(09-13-2020, 12:18 PM)Tyler Wrote: (09-13-2020, 09:09 AM)Hypermav Wrote: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/statu...98788?s=20
"We're a piece away."
Compare and contrast to an equally disappointed Luka talking after game 6 about how he loves his teammates and wants to improve his own game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKtENcfUSuU
Harden has played with 115 teammates over the years. His attitude is Houston's problem in a nutshell. https://www.basketball-reference.com/fri...s%20Harden&pid=hardeja01&idx=players&type=t When you refer to your teammates as role players and you the star instead of saying you love your team and I could have played better even though Luka had a 50/20/20 type game that night...
Josh Green is a top 5 Mavs player...
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