BRUNSON BURNER: to NYK for 4yrs/$104M (no SnT) | NYK docked 2025 2nd for tampering

[hakeemfaan]

When all is said and done, Cuban let a 2 time MVP and a Finals MVP get away on his watch without getting anything back. For someone who still believes he is the smartest person in the room, I hope folks remind him of that every single time.

[cow]

When all is said and done, Cuban let a 2 time MVP and a Finals MVP get away on his watch without getting anything back.  For someone who still believes he is the smartest person in the room, I hope folks remind him of that every single time.

Not excusing Cuban's clownery, but I never got the impression that JB wanted to be here.  And yes, we can debate the would-be extension to death, but if he'd have signed that, he wouldn't be the same player he is today.  

The real debate in my mind is what was handled worse:

-Dirk post-2011
-JB
-Luka

I think I'd rank it Luka > Dirk (at least he climbed the mountain), JB.  We know Luka wanted to be here and he seemed as heartbroken as the fans with the trade and it's made all the worse by not refilling the hole we dug to put that team around him.  And that hole probably wouldn't have needed to be dug as deep had Cuban had a pinch of patience instead of trading for KP right away.

And just like KillerLeft was waiting for the Spurs to collapse in the 4th quarter tonight, I'm waiting for MBT3.0 to FUBAR the Flagg situation up.  I know there are reasons to be optimistic with Ujiri, but you can't kick this dog so many times and not expect me to flinch at every action you take.

[FireNicoHarrison]

Cuban was and still is a clown.
0 basketball knowledge.

Thanks God he is gone.

[hakeemfaan]

Not excusing Cuban's clownery, but I never got the impression that JB wanted to be here.  And yes, we can debate the would-be extension to death, but if he'd have signed that, he wouldn't be the same player he is today.  

The real debate in my mind is what was handled worse:

-Dirk post-2011
-JB
-Luka

I think I'd rank it Luka > Dirk (at least he climbed the mountain), JB.  We know Luka wanted to be here and he seemed as heartbroken as the fans with the trade and it's made all the worse by not refilling the hole we dug to put that team around him.  And that hole probably wouldn't have needed to be dug as deep had Cuban had a pinch of patience instead of trading for KP right away.

And just like KillerLeft was waiting for the Spurs to collapse in the 4th quarter tonight, I'm waiting for MBT3.0 to FUBAR the Flagg situation up.  I know there are reasons to be optimistic with Ujiri, but you can't kick this dog so many times and not expect me to flinch at every action you take.

I am talking about asset management. Other teams lose players too because they don’t want to play for them or because the team knows they won’t meet the player’ demands 

What separates bad organizations from great ones are that you have to constantly think about those scenarios and either proactively lock the player up or move on. 

You can’t lose Nash and Brunson in straight free agency without getting any assets  and say there was nothing we could have done. That is criminal mismanagement.

[Mavs2021]

Luka would still go first 100%. But Brunson always more likely to win a championship.

They both could have three, if the Mavs didn´t have a moron for an owner. Also let´s be real the East is a shitshow. You don´t win three play-off series in the West with KAT as your 2nd best player. You just don´t. Edwards, McDaniels, Gobert and Randle are no worse than the Knicks core. The Knicks just got the one West team they could beat, cause they were tired, inexperienced and imbalanced.

Worst of all Cuban wears all his dumb moves like a badge of honour.

[Fuerza1]

[Fuerza1]

Are the vibes immaculate now?

[F Gump]

With true hindsight?  Luka, maybe.  Just looking at all things as is today with full perspective on the injury vs ironman profile of the 2 players, Brunson could conceivably go number 1.  Both players are well positioned to compete for championships although clearly Jalen is in better position now.  

Player talent evaluation and talent projection is what separates the great GM/front offices from the also rans and the losers.  In hindsight on Mavs history, were Don & Donnie Nelson better than where the Mavs went after their run?  

I was on record as seeing something special in the Villanova crew that have now become the "Nova Knicks". Brunson/Bridges/Hart and even DiVincenzo have been beyond excellent because on the same team they brought NY fantastic team chemistry.  I thought they were all undervalued.  2 time NCAA champions.  The Sixers are another team that blew it spectacularly in the area of talent evaluation/projection by trading Mikal Bridges in an all time disastrous draft day deal.  That proved almost as bad as the Mavs failure to fully see what they had in Brunson.

FWIW if that draft was redone, it's possible neither Luka nor Brunson would get picked first. It might be SGA.

[myconsumerclub]

Watch Luka and LA win it all next year just to rub salt in our wounds. That would be absolutely hilarious. Cuban might be on suicide watch with regrets if that happens.

[F Gump]

When all is said and done, Cuban let a 2 time MVP and a Finals MVP get away on his watch without getting anything back.  For someone who still believes he is the smartest person in the room, I hope folks remind him of that every single time.

Besides Brunson and Nash, Cuban's colossal blunders in player evaluation included Giannis and Tyson Chandler (after the title). Cuban wanted to be a great NBA GM, so he hired himself to make the important decisions, and he just wasn't.

[cow]

Besides Brunson and Nash, Cuban's colossal blunders in player evaluation included Giannis and Tyson Chandler (after the title). Cuban wanted to be a great NBA GM, so he hired himself to make the important decisions, and he just wasn't.

Shane Larkin #NeverForget

[Dahlsim]

FWIW if that draft was redone, it's possible neither Luka nor Brunson would get picked first. It might be SGA.

Thanks for that reminder.  I agree, SGA, Brunson/Luka or Luka/Brunson all very feasible if drafting again right now. 
A lot of big shifts visible if redrafting 2018. 

1. Deandre Ayton — Phoenix Suns
   
2. Marvin Bagley III — Sacramento Kings
   
3. Luka Dončić — Atlanta Hawks (traded to Dallas Mavericks)
   
4. Jaren Jackson Jr. — Memphis Grizzlies
   
5. Trae Young — Dallas Mavericks (traded to Atlanta Hawks)
   
6. Mohamed Bamba — Orlando Magic
   
7. Wendell Carter Jr. — Chicago Bulls
   
8. Collin Sexton — Cleveland Cavaliers
   
9. Kevin Knox — New York Knicks
   
10. Mikal Bridges — Philadelphia 76ers (traded to Phoenix Suns)
    
11. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander — Charlotte Hornets (traded to L.A. Clippers)
    
12. Miles Bridges — L.A. Clippers (traded to Charlotte Hornets)
    
13. Jerome Robinson — L.A. Clippers
    
14. Michael Porter Jr. — Denver Nuggets
    
15. Troy Brown Jr. — Washington Wizards
    
16. Zhaire Smith — Phoenix Suns (traded to Philadelphia 76ers)
    
17. Donte DiVincenzo — Milwaukee Bucks
    
18. Lonnie Walker IV — San Antonio Spurs
    
19. Kevin Huerter — Atlanta Hawks
    
20. Josh Okogie — Minnesota Timberwolves
    
21. Grayson Allen — Utah Jazz
    
22. Chandler Hutchison — Chicago Bulls
    
23. Aaron Holiday — Indiana Pacers
    
24. Anfernee Simons — Portland Trail Blazers
    
25. Moritz Wagner — Los Angeles Lakers
    
26. Landry Shamet — Philadelphia 76ers
    
27. Robert Williams III — Boston Celtics
    
28. Jacob Evans — Golden State Warriors
    
29. Džanan Musa — Brooklyn Nets
    
30. Omari Spellman — Atlanta Hawks
    
31. Svi Mykhailiuk — Los Angeles Lakers
    
32. Jevon Carter — Memphis Grizzlies
    
33. Jalen Brunson — Dallas Mavericks
    
34. Devonte’ Graham — Atlanta Hawks (traded to Charlotte Hornets)
    
35. De’Anthony Melton — Atlanta Hawks (traded to Houston Rockets)
    

[SleepingHero]

Lol good to see Fuerza back.

Congrats dude.

[Chicagojk]

Recency bias? Maybe.

Correct? Very debatable

Still though. Amazing.

I am mostly really happy for Jalen. One of my top five Mavs. Although the anger does hit every once in a while. The last few years have made me be pain resistant with all the craziness.

https://x.com/billsimmons/status/2066927...26081?s=46

[DallasMaverick]

Quote:

1. Deandre Ayton — Phoenix Suns
   
2. Marvin Bagley III — Sacramento Kings
   
3. Luka Dončić — Atlanta Hawks (traded to Dallas Mavericks)
   
4. Jaren Jackson Jr. — Memphis Grizzlies
   
5. Trae Young — Dallas Mavericks (traded to Atlanta Hawks)
   
6. Mohamed Bamba — Orlando Magic
   
7. Wendell Carter Jr. — Chicago Bulls
   
8. Collin Sexton — Cleveland Cavaliers
   
9. Kevin Knox — New York Knicks
   
10. Mikal Bridges — Philadelphia 76ers (traded to Phoenix Suns)
    
11. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander — Charlotte Hornets (traded to L.A. Clippers)
    
12. Miles Bridges — L.A. Clippers (traded to Charlotte Hornets)
    
13. Jerome Robinson — L.A. Clippers
    
14. Michael Porter Jr. — Denver Nuggets
    
15. Troy Brown Jr. — Washington Wizards
    
16. Zhaire Smith — Phoenix Suns (traded to Philadelphia 76ers)
    
17. Donte DiVincenzo — Milwaukee Bucks
    
18. Lonnie Walker IV — San Antonio Spurs
    
19. Kevin Huerter — Atlanta Hawks
    
20. Josh Okogie — Minnesota Timberwolves
    
21. Grayson Allen — Utah Jazz
    
22. Chandler Hutchison — Chicago Bulls
    
23. Aaron Holiday — Indiana Pacers
    
24. Anfernee Simons — Portland Trail Blazers
    
25. Moritz Wagner — Los Angeles Lakers
    
26. Landry Shamet — Philadelphia 76ers
    
27. Robert Williams III — Boston Celtics
    
28. Jacob Evans — Golden State Warriors
    
29. Džanan Musa — Brooklyn Nets
    
30. Omari Spellman — Atlanta Hawks
    
31. Svi Mykhailiuk — Los Angeles Lakers
    
32. Jevon Carter — Memphis Grizzlies
    
33. Jalen Brunson — Dallas Mavericks
    
34. Devonte’ Graham — Atlanta Hawks (traded to Charlotte Hornets)
    
35. De’Anthony Melton — Atlanta Hawks (traded to Houston Rockets)
    

Thanks for that reminder.  I agree, SGA, Brunson/Luka or Luka/Brunson all very feasible if drafting again right now. 
A lot of big shifts visible if redrafting 2018. 

Here's a thought exercise for ya:

How significantly has the scouting/ranking methodology changed since 2018?  

Are GM's and front offices much better equipped now to make determinations about player trajectories than they were 8 years ago?

I look at the 2018 draft, and I think: there were 32 GM's who made horrid, completely misguided player evaluations.  Some even worse than others.

Why do we think that 2026 will be any different?

I hear guys talking about top-5 or top-10 or top-15 picks as sure-fire, guaranteed superstars, or at least solid NBA starters.  

They are just lottery tickets, many of whom will be worth little to nothing.

[mvossman]

Here's a thought exercise for ya:

How significantly has the scouting/ranking methodology changed since 2018?  

Are GM's and front offices much better equipped now to make determinations about player trajectories than they were 8 years ago?

I look at the 2018 draft, and I think: there were 32 GM's who made horrid, completely misguided player evaluations.  Some even worse than others.

Why do we think that 2026 will be any different?

I hear guys talking about top-5 or top-10 or top-15 picks as sure-fire, guaranteed superstars, or at least solid NBA starters.  

They are just lottery tickets, many of whom will be worth little to nothing.

I think it would be better now for a couple of reasons.  There were some unique circumstances at the top.  Ayton had the Arizona connection.  Divac avoided Luka for Euro reasons and because he was an idiot.  A lot of folks thought that Shai should have gone higher (including our own Schmitz).  I think front offices are slowly starting to realize that on court production and the right mental makeup is more valuable than combine measurements and projection.  There would still be plenty of misses.  Its not an exact science.  But if you go look at draft history, you still have way better odds the earlier you pick.

[DallasMaverick]

I think it would be better now for a couple of reasons.  There were some unique circumstances at the top.  Ayton had the Arizona connection.  Divac avoided Luka for Euro reasons and because he was an idiot.  A lot of folks thought that Shai should have gone higher (including our own Schmitz).  I think front offices are slowly starting to realize that on court production and the right mental makeup is more valuable than combine measurements and projection.  There would still be plenty of misses.  Its not an exact science.  But if you go look at draft history, you still have way better odds the earlier you pick.

Absolutely better odds drafting earlier. 

But the idea that we’re getting a sure-fire stud at #9, or even at #4, is simply not supported by history.

[KillerLeft]

Absolutely better odds drafting earlier. 

But the idea that we’re getting a sure-fire stud at #9, or even at #4, is simply not supported by history.

No, you're right about that. But you keep bringing it up like it's some new idea. Everyone here knows that, I'm pretty sure. We also shouldn't pretend it's not expected to get sure-fire stud there and treat the opportunity in this draft like "found money," which seems to be your thesis, unless I'm misunderstanding you. It IS expected to succeed in the draft. Winning during roster building windows is part of how you win on the court. 

Some teams will choose the right guys and then develop them effectively (that second part is the overlooked part). Others won't, you're quite right. Teams from the first group will get better and possibly even experience some winning, eventually, teams in the second group will suffer, not improve as quickly as they could and some of their GM's will even get fired. There's chance in the mix FOR SURE, but it's also as binary and clear as Wembenyama having the chance to sink two free throws in order to clinch game 4.

[cow]

Just looking at the Luka/JB draft, I guess my expectations at #9 would be a Grayson Allen level player (whatever tier you want to stick him in).  Maybe that's setting my expectations too low, but all I can really think about is DSJ.

[KillerLeft]

Just looking at the Luka/JB draft, I guess my expectations at #9 would be a Grayson Allen level player (whatever tier you want to stick him in).  Maybe that's setting my expectations too low, but all I can really think about is DSJ.

Either DSJ or Grayson Allen would be huge bummers. I agree there's a chance it ends up that way, but if I assumed that was likely I'd be very, very depressed.