BRUNSON BURNER: to NYK for 4yrs/$104M (no SnT) | NYK docked 2025 2nd for tampering

[KillerLeft]

I agree with a lot of the above. I guess I’m in a different camp than you going forward though. I do not see the doom and gloom ahead now that they have Flagg, a potential top-5 guy. The hard part is done. The Mavs have a first round pick, some years multiple, in every year but next, even then it’s possible that they get a Top-2 selection there, with the new lottery rules.

I get that their picks are not likely to be at the top of the draft the next 4 seasons, but when you’re good, they’re not high either. So, let’s be good… yeah? I don’t remember talking about top draft picks so much when Dirk and Co. were winning 50+ games each year. How soon can Flagg be regarded as a Top-10/20 player? Nobody knows the answer for certain, but I’m not going to put a cap on it. This upcoming season? Year 3?

Sure, the new MBT will need to put talented players around Flagg that help make him better. That “fit”. But they have talented players now that we can all assume will be used in future trades to do just that. The single biggest thing to get back on the right track is nail this draft! They do that, and we won’t care that the Mavs are picking ~27th in 2028.


Mavs Future Picks:

'26: FRP (Own), FRP (OKC) | SRP (PHX)
'27: FRP owed to CHA if not Top-2 | SRP (CHI)
'28: FRP (OKC right to Swap)
'29: FRP (LAL) | SRP (HOU)
'30: FRP (SAS right to Swap), FRP (GSW-Top 20 Protected) | SRP (PHI)
'31: FRP (Own)
'32: FRP (Own) | SRP (Own)
'33: FRP (Own) | SRP (Own)


*If the '30 GSW pick doesn't convey, it converts to their '30 SRP

**Tradable FRP’s this summer:
2029, 2030 (1), 2031, 2033

I can agree that lucking into Flagg equates to skipping the hardest part, but as we just saw with the first half of Luka's career it's not the only hard part. Not by a long shot. 

Flagg is special, but not unique. So many other teams and fans out there are saying the same thing about Wembenyama, SGA, Anthony Edwards, Luka, Tatum, Brunson, Cunningham, etc. Soon, we'll potentially be adding guys like Dybantsa, Peterson and Boozer to the list with more on the way as each year passes. I'm not saying it's hopeless, and I'll be here for it rooting the Mavs on, but it would be better if they weren't still paying off credit card debt left over from the mismanagement of the Luka era. I think it's important to factor that reality into our expectations, personally. 

This is probably all a little off topic for this thread, and I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to argue about these things later, but these are the thoughts I have watching Brunson on his way to winning a championship this year.

[Smitty]

I can agree that lucking into Flagg equates to skipping the hardest part, but as we just saw with the first half of Luka's career it's not the only hard part. Not by a long shot. 

Flagg is special, but not unique. So many other teams and fans out there are saying the same thing about Wembenyama, SGA, Anthony Edwards, Luka, Tatum, Brunson, Cunningham, etc. Soon, we'll potentially be adding guys like Dybantsa, Peterson and Boozer to the list with more on the way as each year passes. I'm not saying it's hopeless, and I'll be here for it rooting the Mavs on, but it would be better if they weren't still paying off credit card debt left over from the mismanagement of the Luka era. I think it's important to factor that reality into our expectations, personally. 

This is probably all a little off topic for this thread, and I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to argue about these things later, but these are the thoughts I have watching Brunson on his way to winning a championship this year.

Absolutely! This league is as talented as ever right now. Winning a championship will most definitely be earned! Let’s hope they land the next Brunson in a few weeks..

[mvossman]

I can agree that lucking into Flagg equates to skipping the hardest part, but as we just saw with the first half of Luka's career it's not the only hard part. Not by a long shot. 

Flagg is special, but not unique. So many other teams and fans out there are saying the same thing about Wembenyama, SGA, Anthony Edwards, Luka, Tatum, Brunson, Cunningham, etc. Soon, we'll potentially be adding guys like Dybantsa, Peterson and Boozer to the list with more on the way as each year passes. I'm not saying it's hopeless, and I'll be here for it rooting the Mavs on, but it would be better if they weren't still paying off credit card debt left over from the mismanagement of the Luka era. I think it's important to factor that reality into our expectations, personally. 

This is probably all a little off topic for this thread, and I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to argue about these things later, but these are the thoughts I have watching Brunson on his way to winning a championship this year.

I think Flagg is going to be closer to SGA/Wemby than those other guys (including the draft guys).  Time will tell, but if true it means Mavs wont have to put quite as much talent around him as the others.  It is also encouraging that for the first time in memory they have a competent FO, and one with a history adding a lot of high quality players to the roster with limited assets.  I would argue Mavs are in a better position asset wise than they were after they traded for KP (especially when take into account that they ended up trading KP for negative assets and let Brunson walk for nothing).  Combine that with a much better FO and Flagg may get to the finals in less than the 6 years it took Luka.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

NBA Base: The Jalen Brunson camp reportedly "laughed" at the Mavericks when Dallas tried to offer him a 4-year, $55M extension near the 2022 trade deadline, per @TheSteinLine. "The Brunson camp basically laughed at them and said, 'Uh, we'll take our chances in free agency now, you guys had your chance.' ... The Mavs still had the option at that point of picking up the phone and saying, 'Jalen, we completely screwed this up, we are deeply sorry, we've disrespected you, we want to make this right, we're going to offer you 150 over five.' They could have even gone to 175 over five... They had the wherewithal to give Jalen Brunson a blow-away offer, and they didn't do it." ​"If they re-signed him, they either could have kept him with Luka or their phone would have been ringing off the hook with trade offers and they would have had so much better optionality... losing Jalen Brunson for nothing when you combine that with how the Luka trade turned out, like I said, where I live there is a lot of pain when the Knicks are on television."

x.com

[DallasMaverick]

Just a reminder about how Brunson was viewed before the draft.

https://youtu.be/W37us9sU0RQ?si=rKoQ42t7CBWmm9m9

[Chicagojk]

Just a reminder about how Brunson was viewed before the draft.

https://youtu.be/W37us9sU0RQ?si=rKoQ42t7CBWmm9m9

Not sure what this proves.  He was a second rounder.  It was well known there were questions about his upside.   Are we going to Jokic or Maxey next?

The GM role is very tough and mistakes will be made.  I just hold them to a higher standard when they are around a guy for 4 years every day and still not being able to properly evaluate a guy who will get every ounce of his potential out of him.   Even if we all agree that very few thought he had all NBA potential during his stay on the Mavs.    There is a huge gap what the Mavs thought of him and what he turned out to be.  It would have been nice if they had a tad more skill in evaluation and knew what they might have (not even talking about what he turned out to be either).

[F Gump]

NBA Base: The Jalen Brunson camp reportedly "laughed" at the Mavericks when Dallas tried to offer him a 4-year, $55M extension near the 2022 trade deadline, per @TheSteinLine. "The Brunson camp basically laughed at them and said, 'Uh, we'll take our chances in free agency now, you guys had your chance.' ... The Mavs still had the option at that point of picking up the phone and saying, 'Jalen, we completely screwed this up, we are deeply sorry, we've disrespected you, we want to make this right, we're going to offer you 150 over five.' They could have even gone to 175 over five... They had the wherewithal to give Jalen Brunson a blow-away offer, and they didn't do it." "If they re-signed him, they either could have kept him with Luka or their phone would have been ringing off the hook with trade offers and they would have had so much better optionality... losing Jalen Brunson for nothing when you combine that with how the Luka trade turned out, like I said, where I live there is a lot of pain when the Knicks are on television."

x.com

The Mavs did NOT have the ability to offer JB a bigger deal at the TDL than the 4/55M deal they offered. 

Yes, they COULD HAVE outbid NY once they got to free agency, but whether they could have swayed a player who held all the cards and wanted his own team is something we have no way of knowing. As I recall, at that point as they headed into free agency, Cuban smugly thought Brunson was going nowhere, and that the Mavs offer was more than enough (and that JB would be eager to get it and stay) -- when the Mavs didn't even get a real meeting and had no clue how much it would take to sign him.

Personally I wanted the Mavs to keep JB, and to pay more if they needed to. I saw huge value in JB. His play in those playoffs showed a killer instinct, his game reminded me of Nash, and he worked well with Luka.

At the same time, if your negotiating team is incompetent, and the owner doesn't see a real need to hire an expert, bad outcomes like that are basically inevitable. We knew this from all the way back in the days of the Nash fiasco, and it was never fixed.

[DallasMaverick]

1. Deandre Ayton
2. Marvin Bagley
3. Luka Doncic
4. Jaren Jackson
5. Trae Young
6. Mo Bamba
7. Wendell Carter
8. Collin Sexton
9. Kevin Knox
10. Mikal Bridges

If the draft occurred today, how many of these picks would go higher than Brunson?

[KillerLeft]

1. Deandre Ayton
2. Marvin Bagley
3. Luka Doncic
4. Jaren Jackson
5. Trae Young
6. Mo Bamba
7. Wendell Carter
8. Collin Sexton
9. Kevin Knox
10. Mikal Bridges

If the draft occurred today, how many of these picks would go higher than Brunson?

Luka, probably. None of the others.

[KillerLeft]

I just re-read through this entire thread. Two takeaways:

1) I was accused by some people I respect of not going SCORCHED EARTH to the extent I promised in the event Brunson was lost for nothing. I still disagree. I think my reaction fell well into SCORCHED EARTH range, and I feel like I can basically pinpoint the moments where decade-long friendships were lost because I couldn't find it in myself not to overreact about this turn of events. Frankly, I'm not sure my ability to post cogently or rationally about the Mavs ever fully recovered from this debacle. I was making some awesome contributions to the discussion early on in this thread, but I've had one leg in SCORCHED EARTH mode ever since he left, I believe.

2) Man, has it been difficult to maintain Mavs fandom these past 4-5 seasons. Our team has basically been on a roller coaster of alternating between near greatness and extinction-level catastrophes. Draft a savior? Nah, the coach leaves. Cuban steps aside as GM, finally? Nah, he chooses a shoe salesman to replace him. The young team makes it to the WCF? Nah, they let their 2nd best player, a top-5 offensive engine in the league, walk out the door for nothing. The team makes it back to the finals? Nah, the shoe salesman gives the savior away in a deal not one person on planet Earth would ever have predicted. Team lucks into a new savior? Well, if the pattern holds (here's hoping it doesn't), we're in for the other shoe dropping in a major way soon. 

We Mavs fans deserve medals.

[mvossman]

I just re-read through this entire thread. Two takeaways:

1) I was accused by some people I respect of not going SCORCHED EARTH to the extent I promised in the event Brunson was lost for nothing. I still disagree. I think my reaction fell well into SCORCHED EARTH range, and I feel like I can basically pinpoint the moments where decade-long friendships were lost because I couldn't find it in myself not to overreact about this turn of events. Frankly, I'm not sure my ability to post cogently or rationally about the Mavs ever fully recovered from this debacle. I was making some awesome contributions to the discussion early on in this thread, but I've had one leg in SCORCHED EARTH mode ever since he left, I believe.

2) Man, has it been difficult to maintain Mavs fandom these past 4-5 seasons. Our team has basically been on a roller coaster of alternating between near greatness and extinction-level catastrophes. Draft a savior? Nah, the coach leaves. Cuban steps aside as GM, finally? Nah, he chooses a shoe salesman to replace him. The young team makes it to the WCF? Nah, they let their 2nd best player, a top-5 offensive engine in the league, walk out the door for nothing. The team makes it back to the finals? Nah, the shoe salesman gives the savior away in a deal not one person on planet Earth would ever have predicted. Team lucks into a new savior? Well, if the pattern holds (here's hoping it doesn't), we're in for the other shoe dropping in a major way soon. 

We Mavs fans deserve medals.

Nash, the post championship breakup and Brunson were all brutal, but nothing had me as close to bailing on the Mavs as the Nico experience.  I can't even imagine where this thing would be if they had not lucked into Flagg.  No chance Masai would be here.  I had one foot out the door before the ping pong balls, and I don't know when I would have come back if it had not played out the way it did.

[cow]

I think it was 100% on Cuban.  Nico was GM in name only.  Cuban brought him in for his rolodex.  In fact with Nico being completely clueless (zero experience in FO) I think Cuban took over even more responsibility.  Cuban has always called the shots and the only question was who was influencing him the most.  Many times it wasn't the GM, whether it was a player (Parsons) a gambler or a consultant (the Linsdey year was the only time this FO looked competent).  I am definitely glad we are done with that mess.

Again, I'm not saying losing Brunson is on Nico's shoulders and the previous MBT put him in a nosedive no one could have pulled out of, but when the one tangible GM skill you have in your toolbelt is player relationships, not being able to get a conversation with Jalen was a failure on Nico's part. All his inexperience aside, being in the shoe game is about building relationships and he had a year on the job to do so with Brunson. You'd figure he could at least get a conversation with Jalen and his team even if the outcome would have been the same. I remember posting about this at the time and it was the first Nico red flag for me during his tenure.

[mvossman]

Again, I'm not saying losing Brunson is on Nico's shoulders and the previous MBT put him in a nosedive no one could have pulled out of, but when the one tangible GM skill you have in your toolbelt is player relationships, not being able to get a conversation with Jalen was a failure on Nico's part.  All his inexperience aside, being in the shoe game is about building relationships and he had a year on the job to do so with Brunson.  You'd figure he could at least get a conversation with Jalen and his team even if the outcome would have been the same.  I remember posting about this at the time and it was the first Nico red flag for me during his tenure.

I guess my bar was just a lot lower on Nico.  I always considered him a pure figurehead who was hired specifically due to his prior connections with many potential free agents (and probably played some part in the Kyrie trade).  Besides, I think Bruson was gone by that point.  The real mistake was not offering him the extension when they had the chance.  I do wonder if some of that is on Rick.  I'm not sure he truly appreciated Brunson for what he was.

[FireNicoHarrison]

1. Deandre Ayton
2. Marvin Bagley
3. Luka Doncic
4. Jaren Jackson
5. Trae Young
6. Mo Bamba
7. Wendell Carter
8. Collin Sexton
9. Kevin Knox
10. Mikal Bridges

If the draft occurred today, how many of these picks would go higher than Brunson?

Now? Maybe not even Luka... But it's not so funny this game with Bruson in the Finals and all others (but Bridges) at Cancun.

[FireNicoHarrison]

Anyway Jalen was a winner, he is a winner and he will be a winner.

[windjc]

Luka would still go first 100%. But Brunson always more likely to win a championship.

[KillerLeft]

My Youtube algorithm is suddenly pushing a never-ending series of talking heads from years ago talking about how underwhelming and pointless it was for NY to so relentlessly pursue Brunson, lol. It's pretty funny.

[Dahlsim]

1. Deandre Ayton
2. Marvin Bagley
3. Luka Doncic
4. Jaren Jackson
5. Trae Young
6. Mo Bamba
7. Wendell Carter
8. Collin Sexton
9. Kevin Knox
10. Mikal Bridges

If the draft occurred today, how many of these picks would go higher than Brunson?

With true hindsight?  Luka, maybe.  Just looking at all things as is today with full perspective on the injury vs ironman profile of the 2 players, Brunson could conceivably go number 1.  Both players are well positioned to compete for championships although clearly Jalen is in better position now.  

Player talent evaluation and talent projection is what separates the great GM/front offices from the also rans and the losers.  In hindsight on Mavs history, were Don & Donnie Nelson better than where the Mavs went after their run?  

I was on record as seeing something special in the Villanova crew that have now become the "Nova Knicks". Brunson/Bridges/Hart and even DiVincenzo have been beyond excellent because on the same team they brought NY fantastic team chemistry.  I thought they were all undervalued.  2 time NCAA champions.  The Sixers are another team that blew it spectacularly in the area of talent evaluation/projection by trading Mikal Bridges in an all time disastrous draft day deal.  That proved almost as bad as the Mavs failure to fully see what they had in Brunson.

[hakeemfaan]

Nash, the post championship breakup and Brunson were all brutal, but nothing had me as close to bailing on the Mavs as the Nico experience.  I can't even imagine where this thing would be if they had not lucked into Flagg.  No chance Masai would be here.  I had one foot out the door before the ping pong balls, and I don't know when I would have come back if it had not played out the way it did.

I seriously considered bailing and just supporting some players than teams. Then reality hit that I could never not support this team, and what kept me rooted here was knowing that Dirk won a title here and no one could ever take that away. This was even before the Flagg ping pong lottery. 

I made my peace that I would be bitter at the front office and the ownership (strange way to put it ), but Dirk is the one that will keep me as a Mavs fan always, no matter how many more kick to the nuts we'll continue to get as fans, and I do expect we'll get many more. At the same time, we're blessed as a franchise that somehow we got 3 generational players and now 4 if you look at Brunson, whereas many other franchises haven't got one in a long time. So maybe that's nature's way of evening things out...give us highs and give us lows.

[cow]

I seriously considered bailing and just supporting some players than teams. Then reality hit that I could never not support this team, and what kept me rooted here was knowing that Dirk won a title here and no one could ever take that away. This was even before the Flagg ping pong lottery. 

I made my peace that I would be bitter at the front office and the ownership (strange way to put it ), but Dirk is the one that will keep me as a Mavs fan always, no matter how many more kick to the nuts we'll continue to get as fans, and I do expect we'll get many more. At the same time, we're blessed as a franchise that somehow we got 3 generational players and now 4 if you look at Brunson, whereas many other franchises haven't got one in a long time. So maybe that's nature's way of evening things out...give us highs and give us lows.

It's tough to square the incompetence of the organization with one's fandom.  Dirk does a LOT to tip the scales as you could not ask for an easier guy to cheer for.  I'd love to be done with Dallas sports as I've lived away from DFW longer than the time I spent growing up there.  Sadly, you can't pick where you were born or who you love.