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(11-06-2022, 10:57 AM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: One thing I have come to expect from Hardy so far in his professional career is to see loads of potential and maddening inconsistency. I am not going to get pulled offsides anymore by him when he has a good night. I will clap and patiently wait until he strings even a few good performances together before I get excited. I am still hopeful, just patiently such. The kid needs time to hone his craft and develop into a consistent player. Talent without consistency can't play.
The positive is that by all accounts, he's a gym rat. All his weaknesses are fixable if the player has the dedication and perseverance to work at them. Get consistently lower with the handle and cut out/reduce the forced plays outside the flow of the offense. Improving those two things alone would make him an NBA rotation player minimum. If he does that, his skillset is a 20ppg player in this league on solid efficiency with some playmaking. The defense is harder to predict, but if it doesn't come along, he's prob an explosive 6th man off the bench type than starter. Which is still a great outcome.
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way to early 2022 re-draft article:
[b]Jaden Hardy, Mavericks: [/b] I had Hardy ranked in my top 10 for most of last season until the draft got closer and I dropped him to no. 17—which was still way higher than most other outlets and much higher than where he ended up going (no. 37). But I still may have undervalued him. Hardy is averaging 29 points per game in the G League while shooting 48.2 percent from 3 on 9.2 attempts a game. The dude is getting any shot he wants on the court, just like he did in high school when he was a top-ranked player. Granted, he still needs work as a defender and a playmaker, but he would have gone in the lottery had he scored like this last year. The Mavericks might have found a steal, but now the team needs to give him a chance in the big leagues.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/11/30...22-redraft
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(11-30-2022, 12:56 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: way to early 2022 re-draft article:
Jaden Hardy, Mavericks:[b] [/b]I had Hardy ranked in my top 10 for most of last season until the draft got closer and I dropped him to no. 17—which was still way higher than most other outlets and much higher than where he ended up going (no. 37). But I still may have undervalued him. Hardy is averaging 29 points per game in the G League while shooting 48.2 percent from 3 on 9.2 attempts a game. The dude is getting any shot he wants on the court, just like he did in high school when he was a top-ranked player. Granted, he still needs work as a defender and a playmaker, but he would have gone in the lottery had he scored like this last year. The Mavericks might have found a steal, but now the team needs to give him a chance in the big leagues.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/11/30...22-redraft
Thanks for posting this. My question about Hardy is whether his D will ever let him start next to Luka. Incredible potential for a valuable role, but on this team is he Jordon Clarkson (circa 2021 and prior) or Lou Williams? If he’s next to Luka against starters, the rest of the lineup would need to be GREAT defensively. Something like Defensive Center, DFS, Green, Hardy and Luka?
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11-30-2022, 01:35 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2022, 02:43 PM by KillerLeft.)
(11-30-2022, 01:29 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Thanks for posting this. My question about Hardy is whether his D will ever let him start next to Luka. Incredible potential for a valuable role, but on this team is he Jordon Clarkson (circa 2021 and prior) or Lou Williams?
The exact two players I used to make this point yesterday. SEE? You DO agree with me, sometimes.
And, it's not like projecting him into a role like that is a bad thing. Every team in the league wants guys like that and each year there are maybe 3-5 of them playing well. It's a valuable piece to have.
That's what Dinwiddie should be right NOW, imho.
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(11-30-2022, 01:29 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Thanks for posting this. My question about Hardy is whether his D will ever let him start next to Luka. Incredible potential for a valuable role, but on this team is he Jordon Clarkson (circa 2021 and prior) or Lou Williams? If he’s next to Luka against starters, the rest of the lineup would need to be GREAT defensively. Something like Defensive Center, DFS, Green, Hardy and Luka?
I am not sure, but it is an excellent question.
What I like about the roster you list above is in theory a defensive Center should not cost us a lot of assets. So you would still have picks and salary to find one more player. We just need Green to continue to improve and Hardy to be legit. If so, this team looks much more promising if they hit on the trade they are gearing up for. Although, Hardy and Green are probably going to be asked for in a lot of these discussions.
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For all the talk about how this team doesn't have or develop young talent, Hardy has certainly been a breath of fresh air and also could be a HUGE win for us. His timeline may be longer than game ready by next season but with our roster and salary construction we may not have a choice if we want to continue to use other assets to try to acquire talent.
To me the Mavs quickest path back to real contention relies on Hardy becoming a rotation piece by next year's playoffs. Is it possible? Time will tell.
Good asset management in my opinion would look like:
Shop Wood/Bullock at the deadline (maybe with a second rounder or whatever attached but no more).
Use Dinwiddie's contract along with all our picks this offseason after the draft to go hunting again for Luka's number 2 in the starting lineup to replace Dinwiddie.
Hope Hardy can play his way into a 6th man role ahead of everyone's schedule.
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(11-30-2022, 01:29 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Thanks for posting this. My question about Hardy is whether his D will ever let him start next to Luka. Incredible potential for a valuable role, but on this team is he Jordon Clarkson (circa 2021 and prior) or Lou Williams? If he’s next to Luka against starters, the rest of the lineup would need to be GREAT defensively. Something like Defensive Center, DFS, Green, Hardy and Luka?
I'm a little confused by the question as both of those guys are 6th man shooting guards coming off the bench and neither play particularly good defense. I think Clarkson is a good comp and Hardy will likely play a 6th man type role.
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Dinwiddie is already among the worst defensive players in the league based on Raptor and my eye test and he starts next to Luka. Hardy could only be an improvement.
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(11-30-2022, 02:34 PM)mvossman Wrote: I'm a little confused by the question as both of those guys are 6th man shooting guards coming off the bench and neither play particularly good defense. I think Clarkson is a good comp and Hardy will likely play a 6th man type role.
Getting a Lou/Clarkson of a secondrounder would for sure be a success.
But that should never be the goal to anyone.
They are players who never reached their potential.
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(11-30-2022, 02:34 PM)mvossman Wrote: I'm a little confused by the question as both of those guys are 6th man shooting guards coming off the bench and neither play particularly good defense. I think Clarkson is a good comp and Hardy will likely play a 6th man type role.
Rereading, I can see the confusion. Question was meant to be whether Hardy would end up being a Clarkson/Lou Will 'type'. Not whether he'd be like one or another. I consider both similar.
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Jordan Clarkson, Lou Will, Jamal Crawford ... all good comps for a 6th man, instant offense type who can handle and make plays. Jason Terry.
I've only really seen Hardy's highlights. He's a longer guard, like Clarkson, but with a bigger frame that may fill out over time. Seems to have great footwork and strong understanding of how to use leverage to get by his guy rather than relying on an explosive first step. He's shooting the light out -- looks like a lottery-level talent to me -- but the best news comes from his teammates who instantly declared Hardy a steal in training camp. He has a very modern game.
Granted, we haven't seen him play NBA minutes but if I have lottery SG, a dead-eye shooter with handles, I have much higher expectations than 6th man who doesn't play defense. By accounts, Hardy is a hard worker who should be able to defend -- though he doesn't have to be a stopper if he's going to score 20 PPG!
Really like the fit of a dream future starting lineup ... Luka (23) Hardy (20) Green (22)
The next young pieces to find should be a big wing / forward to develop behind DFS, a kid who can guard 1-5 and shoot, and a modern center.
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(12-01-2022, 09:31 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: The next young pieces to find should be a big wing / forward to develop behind DFS, a kid who can guard 1-5 and shoot, and a modern center.
I love you.
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(12-01-2022, 12:56 AM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: Dinwiddie is already among the worst defensive players in the league based on Raptor and my eye test and he starts next to Luka. Hardy could only be an improvement.
Based on EPM he is bad, but not even the worst on the team. If you are going to move Din for defensive purposes, Hardy is probably not going to be your choice to replace.
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(12-01-2022, 09:31 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: Jordan Clarkson, Lou Will, Jamal Crawford ... all good comps for a 6th man, instant offense type who can handle and make plays. Jason Terry.
I've only really seen Hardy's highlights. He's a longer guard, like Clarkson, but with a bigger frame that may fill out over time. Seems to have great footwork and strong understanding of how to use leverage to get by his guy rather than relying on an explosive first step. He's shooting the light out -- looks like a lottery-level talent to me -- but the best news comes from his teammates who instantly declared Hardy a steal in training camp. He has a very modern game.
Granted, we haven't seen him play NBA minutes but if I have lottery SG, a dead-eye shooter with handles, I have much higher expectations than 6th man who doesn't play defense. By accounts, Hardy is a hard worker who should be able to defend -- though he doesn't have to be a stopper if he's going to score 20 PPG!
Really like the fit of a dream future starting lineup ... Luka (23) Hardy (20) Green (22)
The next young pieces to find should be a big wing / forward to develop behind DFS, a kid who can guard 1-5 and shoot, and a modern center.
Agree with all of this. Green's development and Hardy's potential could fill two important roster holes for years to come (whether Hardy is a starter or a sixth man instant offense type) if you don't trade them away. I wasn't setting a ceiling on Hardy. I was asking if he has the defensive chops to play next to Luka. Of course, some optimist (like Dan) would probably tell me that we got to the WCF's with Brunson next to Luka and he wasn't some fantastic defender either.
As I've contemplated trades, one of the things I've tried to do is add in a developmental player. For instance, I think Kai Jones has a shot at being a modern center (athletic, mobile and can hit 3's). I've been trying to add him into Gordon Hayward trade proposals. I tried to do similar things with trade ideas this summer. Another benefit of Green/Hardy becoming significant contributors is it makes the Hardaway/Bullock types more expendable as outgoing salary match. There was some sentiment this summer that Bullock was indispensable. I didn't think so, but I was early on what Green would become. This team has more rotation players than it needs and could probably use a 'consolidation trade' to convert two or more guys into one guy to ease the logjam.
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(12-01-2022, 09:31 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: The next young pieces to find should be a big wing / forward to develop behind DFS, a kid who can guard 1-5 and shoot, and a modern center.
If OG Anuoby wants to go somewhere where he isn't the 4th option I really do think Dinwiddie and 2 unprotected firsts and 3rd one that is lottery protected and reverts to two seconds if the protection hits makes a lot of sense and now you have your young versatile wing.
I still think Dan's idea of Wood/Bullock for Collins also makes a lot of sense and while he may not be what some are picturing as a modern center, I think he fits into what we're doing with our frontcourt reallllllly nicely. (I can also talk myself into the Kai Jones swing too)
We just have to make sure whatever we land with is a true contender because if you sign a guy like OG to a big deal and take on Collins contract it's going to be hard to reverse course.
Luka/Hardy
Hardaway/Green
OG/???
DFS/Collins
Maxi/Powell(?)
Just pie in the sky thoughts but this is kind of the best case scenario I've landed on.
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A lower cost guy I'm keeping an eye on is Chuma Okeke (24). Big wing, multi-positional disruptive defender and dirty work guy. Has been up and down and profiles as a solid 3&D if he ever shoots straight. He profiles as a guy who might develop slowly over four years and could change teams as a restricted free agent if Orlando would rather invest in veteran leadership around their young core. Not a home run, for sure, and maybe not the "better-than-DFS" type you'd hope for, but nowhere near as expensive as OGA, and Dallas should have money available.
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(12-01-2022, 10:57 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: If OG Anuoby wants to go somewhere where he isn't the 4th option I really do think Dinwiddie and 2 unprotected firsts and 3rd one that is lottery protected and reverts to two seconds if the protection hits makes a lot of sense and now you have your young versatile wing.
OG is at the top of my list for great fits. In fact, other than Jaylen Brown (will Boston take the risk of getting "Brunsoned"?), OG is my list. I think if you could get him, you can make a lot of things around Luka/Green/OG/DFS work.
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(12-01-2022, 12:11 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: OG is at the top of my list for great fits. In fact, other than Jaylen Brown (will Boston take the risk of getting "Brunsoned"?), OG is my list. I think if you could get him, you can make a lot of things around Luka/Green/OG/DFS work.
That defense around Luka would be FLYING all over the court.
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With all the talk about Hardy, I´d like to point he has played 10 minutes, which ranks 54th amongst rookies. Maybe we let him get on the floor firstm before we announce culture changes.
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Yes, please, to OG. He’s also my dream #2 behind Jaylen Brown. He’d have to want Dallas though and they’d have to accommodate him. We likely won’t have capsace after next season, right?
I looked and Hardy and Anfernee Simons are both listed at 6’3 w/6/9 wingspans. Simons is a twitchier athlete. But I would say that’s about our BEST case for Hardy. Would also be thrilled if he even turns into another Clarkson
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