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(10-19-2022, 11:26 AM)mvossman Wrote: I can see the argument to being done with bigs after the Wood signing. A lot depends on whether Wood can hold his own as the single big. I am skeptical and prefer pairing him with Maxi, which would mean less need for a big wing and more need for big depth.
Yeah, so maybe that's the point where the divergence happens, once all is boiled down.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're thinking "to make Wood work, they might have to view him as the 4 in a 2-big system more than I'd like, but if that's what it takes they should try it." Is that a fairly accurate summation of your logical starting point?
Mine is more like "if Wood can't (eventually) show that he's capable of being a solo big (not expecting it in game 1 - it would be a process) then I'd prefer he play for a different team."
I just feel really strongly that, while maintaining the option and personnel to go 2-bigs when needed is important, I really, really don't want to build my best (top 6 guys) lineups around the idea that two slow guys will be out there at the same time.
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Hoping the stock market picks up by the trade deadline just in case we have to pay the tax to sign Wood.
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(10-19-2022, 11:41 AM)mvossman Wrote: I know this is a really low bar, but I feel like we will get more out of this tax MLE (McGee/Hardy) than we did out of the full MLE two years ago (Burke/WCS/Terry).
This is a pretty reasonable point and will probably end up being true.
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(10-19-2022, 08:22 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: However, now that we're talking about this specific angle, I would caution people not to assume McGee is going to be a "competent, playable center" by playoff time. He has already lost enough of a step to convince Monty Williams he wasn't playable when their season was on the line.
Coaching malpractice. The Biyambo thing was a gimmick a la Carlisle starting Boban in that Clippers series but it was easy to see that you couldn't keep going back to that well. I also wouldn't trust his handling of big men with the Ayton situation, especially with how exploitable Dallas was in that area. And that's not me saying McGee doesn't have flaws as he certainly does and there will be matchups very unfavorable for keeping him on the floor.
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10-19-2022, 12:33 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2022, 12:34 PM by KillerLeft.)
(10-19-2022, 11:07 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: He's simply a better rebounding Powell who will play a similar role and I think the roster will make more sense again by the playoffs, there's no reason to keep Powell on this roster with his expiring.
As to the comparison:
I believe McGee is absolutely the better rebounder, but I don't think rebounding is nearly as important these days as most people believe, especially when there are guys out there sacrificing defensive position in favor of rebounding position. DAJ was the worst about this, and I sure hope McGee is more plugged into the team defense than he was. I'm worried.
I also agree that he's a better rim protector than Powell, but that this improvement, too, comes with a lower level of defensive positioning. Think about it...is McGee going to be faster or slower than Powell when it's time to leave his man and help in the paint? After the ball is diverted out of the paint, which player would you bet on having the change of direction and motor needed to recover back out to a shooter?
I know it's not popular, but I'm honestly not sure McGee is going to be better than Powell, just different. I sure hope I'm wrong.
On your point regarding Powell's expiring, I totally agree. They have to be thinking of his contract as a means of building a mid-season trade. It's the only sane reason to go into the season with both of them on the roster. Maybe you'll be right and they'll make a good one that makes this conversation seem silly.
(10-19-2022, 12:22 PM)cow Wrote: Coaching malpractice. The Biyambo thing was a gimmick a la Carlisle starting Boban in that Clippers series but it was easy to see that you couldn't keep going back to that well. I also wouldn't trust his handling of big men with the Ayton situation, especially with how exploitable Dallas was in that area. And that's not me saying McGee doesn't have flaws as he certainly does and there will be matchups very unfavorable for keeping him on the floor.
Very possible. I know @"SleepingHero" feels this way, too.
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@"KillerLeft" please go ahead and set up the McShaqtin hater group and I’ll join you after 2.64789 games of trying to be positive. I almost gave up already in the last preseason game when he caught it at the 3 point line and just decided to turbo into a dude standing still for the charge.
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- IamDougieFresh (05-20-2023, 04:39 AM)
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(10-19-2022, 01:27 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: @"KillerLeft" please go ahead and set up the McShaqtin hater group and I’ll join you after 2.64789 games of trying to be positive. I almost gave up already in the last preseason game when he caught it at the 3 point line and just decided to turbo into a dude standing still for the charge.
You? Trying to be positive? On three time champion JaVale McGee?
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(10-19-2022, 01:43 PM)cow Wrote: You? Trying to be positive? On three time champion JaVale McGee?
![[Image: spiderman-funny.gif]](https://media.tenor.com/8jlC25Qb-jEAAAAM/spiderman-funny.gif)
Yeah I’ll give just about anybody a chance
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- IamDougieFresh (05-20-2023, 04:39 AM)
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(10-19-2022, 12:03 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Yeah, so maybe that's the point where the divergence happens, once all is boiled down.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're thinking "to make Wood work, they might have to view him as the 4 in a 2-big system more than I'd like, but if that's what it takes they should try it." Is that a fairly accurate summation of your logical starting point?
Mine is more like "if Wood can't (eventually) show that he's capable of being a solo big (not expecting it in game 1 - it would be a process) then I'd prefer he play for a different team."
I just feel really strongly that, while maintaining the option and personnel to go 2-bigs when needed is important, I really, really don't want to build my best (top 6 guys) lineups around the idea that two slow guys will be out there at the same time.
It's not that I necessarily think we have to play Wood in a 2 big system, its more that I really like Maxi/Wood pairing as they help cover each others deficiencies on defense (rebounding/rim protection) and compliment each other so well on offense. The more you can get away with McGee on the court, the more you can play Maxi and Wood together.
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(10-19-2022, 02:00 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: Yeah I’ll give just about anybody a chance
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(10-19-2022, 12:33 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: As to the comparison:
I believe McGee is absolutely the better rebounder, but I don't think rebounding is nearly as important these days as most people believe, especially when there are guys out there sacrificing defensive position in favor of rebounding position. DAJ was the worst about this, and I sure hope McGee is more plugged into the team defense than he was. I'm worried.
I also agree that he's a better rim protector than Powell, but that this improvement, too, comes with a lower level of defensive positioning. Think about it...is McGee going to be faster or slower than Powell when it's time to leave his man and help in the paint? After the ball is diverted out of the paint, which player would you bet on having the change of direction and motor needed to recover back out to a shooter?
I know it's not popular, but I'm honestly not sure McGee is going to be better than Powell, just different. I sure hope I'm wrong.
On your point regarding Powell's expiring, I totally agree. They have to be thinking of his contract as a means of building a mid-season trade. It's the only sane reason to go into the season with both of them on the roster. Maybe you'll be right and they'll make a good one that makes this conversation seem silly.
I honestly don't disagree with any of this.
I wasn't super stoked on the McGee signing and I'm not as low as Powell as most of this board and I'm with you that this may be more of a lateral move than many are hoping for but I would push back on this notion (which has gained some popularity here in certain corners) that Powell has become this great team defender. I agree that he probably understands assignments better when he gets spread out and will hustle more than McGee but we still got smoked during Powell minutes in the playoffs and he proved to be unplayable.
I understand McGee may prove to be unplayable too but we're in a place where our unplayable front court players will hopefully eat up even less minutes than last year if Wood proves to be valuable. I feel the same concerns about Wood's defense as you do but I look at a lineup of Luka/Bullock/DFS/Maxi/Wood and see the best spread high PnR offense in the league that happens to have 3 very switchable defenders. To steal a line from Kidd, I'm seeing a rotation that is going to have enough good defenders where Luka and Wood simply have to "participate" on defense. I may prove to be too high on Wood and I know he's going to piss me off when he jogs back or takes bad shots from time to time but one thing I feel very confident about is that this offensive pairing is going to work soooooo much better than Luka/KP and will win us a ton of games.
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After watching McGee tonighth, he got busy....
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This roster needs another big man if Kidd is going to not play McGee or DP or CW while only riding Maxi when it matters. If Kidd keeps this up and there are not roster adjustments the win potential of this team is going to tank.
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Luka - Dinwiddie - DFS - Maxi - Wood is the ideal closing lineup. Swap Bullock for Maxi in the starting lineup.
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- IamDougieFresh (05-20-2023, 04:39 AM)
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I thought the Wood "lone big" minutes were fine!! Some of the best stretches of the game!
I thought the Kleber/Wood tandem was awkward and not at all as we hoped. Hopefully, it will improve with time.
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(10-20-2022, 07:48 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I thought the Wood "lone big" minutes were fine!! Some of the best stretches of the game!
I thought the Kleber/Wood tandem was awkward and not at all as we hoped. Hopefully, it will improve with time.
The Maxi "lone big" minutes were the issue.
If my rough count is right: Two minutes in the first half that were fine, but that was because the Mavs had all the momentum at that point and the Suns were a mess (and Ayton was out). Then two minutes in the third that were bad and a harbinger of the futility of that lineup, then five minutes in the 4th that were utterly disastrous.
If Kidd keeps riding Maxi as the "lone big" this is going to be a long season.
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Campazzo is probably going to get a real chance to make the rotation...and they are going to need him to have a career-best season
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10-20-2022, 11:24 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2022, 01:52 PM by KillerLeft.)
(10-20-2022, 09:13 AM)Kammrath Wrote: The Maxi "lone big" minutes were the issue.
If my rough count is right: Two minutes in the first half that were fine, but that was because the Mavs had all the momentum at that point and the Suns were a mess (and Ayton was out). Then two minutes in the third that were bad and a harbinger of the futility of that lineup, then five minutes in the 4th that were utterly disastrous.
If Kidd keeps riding Maxi as the "lone big" this is going to be a long season.
Well, since you had a problem with those stretches and they also didn't really seem to have much chemistry (on either end) when playing together, I suppose we should just hope that Kleber simply had an off night and things will get better.
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Man, I keep having a recurring thought on how much better I would like our lineup if you replaced Hardaway with a wing who could create and defend. I am not sure a big enough upgrade will present itself this year though so we will need to find a way to make Hardaway work. If it doesn't work, that will be a really tough pill to swallow.
I just envision a starting lineup of Luka, DFS, Bullock, Wing TBD and C (I will leave C generic for now). The wing acts like a secondary creator and allows Dinwiddie to go to the bench. Hopefully Green and Jaden develop and take some backup two guard minutes. A minimum third PG can be added for your 4th or 5th ball handler.
it is just tricky finding that type of wing. Maybe Gordon Hayward but I would really like to see him play for 30 games to see if he can stay healthy. Hornets may hold out for a Laker package with picks though if their season goes south. Ideally, I would like to use Hardaway plus future picks and swaps for a higher tier than Hayward, but these types of players are hard to find and/or get.
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(10-20-2022, 11:32 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Hardaway
Carlisle used Hardaway in an optimum way - as elite spot up shooter. Kidd is trying to increase his responsibility and he is back to inefficient chucker he was his whole career.
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