Posts: 15,587
Threads: 52
Likes Received: 7,926 in 4,307 posts
Likes Given: 9,678
Likes Received: 7,926 in 4,307 posts
Likes Given: 9,678
Joined: Aug 2020
(02-10-2022, 04:39 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I understand they really wanted to get off KP. Why not choose the deal that gets you a first AND Luka's buddy Goran then?
Apply logic.
What's more likely, that the Mavs are complete idiots, or that a more favorable deal than this one simply didn't exist?
I honestly think that either A) KP's contract is so hated that a more traditional salary dump offer wasn't out there or B) for some reason, the Mavs didn't want his money to expire. They wanted to chop it up into (slightly) more movable pieces.
Posts: 9,168
Threads: 1
Likes Received: 3,368 in 2,004 posts
Likes Given: 355
Likes Received: 3,368 in 2,004 posts
Likes Given: 355
Joined: Sep 2019
(02-10-2022, 04:36 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: So here is another question:
Why in the world do you not insist to ADD Thomas Bryant to the trade, if necessary via the TPE.
The Wizards are tanking. Bryant is expiring.
Thomas Bryant is 24 years old. Last year he averaged 14/6, shooting 64% from the field, 42% from 3pt range.
I guess the Mavs didn´t want him either, right.
Answer: Mark Cuban
Posts: 4,625
Threads: 5
Likes Received: 1,998 in 1,179 posts
Likes Given: 708
Likes Received: 1,998 in 1,179 posts
Likes Given: 708
Joined: Feb 2021
(02-10-2022, 04:42 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Apply logic.
What's more likely, that the Mavs are complete idiots, or that a more favorable deal than this one simply didn't exist?
I honestly think that either A) KP's contract is so hated that a more traditional salary dump offer wasn't out there or B) for some reason, the Mavs didn't want his money to expire. They wanted to chop it up into (slightly) more movable pieces.
Well what are the odds that you come to the correct conclusion?
Posts: 1,497
Threads: 8
Likes Received: 647 in 250 posts
Likes Given: 162
Likes Received: 647 in 250 posts
Likes Given: 162
Joined: Sep 2019
(02-10-2022, 04:31 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I was surprised at first, too.
I think it should tell us something about how two, smaller bad contracts are preferred over one, huge one, even if the money is the same, overall.
People are acting like the Mavs did a salary dump for WAS, and I get how they're looking at it that way (added a year of hell, potentially). But that pick signals to me that it was Dallas trying to dump KP, not the other way around.
Can't say this enough: they just flat out wanted KP off the team. That was the biggest goal here.
I think we all hoped that changing up the FO, even with Cuban remaining the central figure would result in positive changes. Maybe the decision making will be proven to be improved, but this at least argues that negotiating skills remain poor.
In my fictional multiverse for this, the Mavs should have gotten a pick 950/1000 times, come out neutral 49/1000 times, and give up a pick 1/1000. Even if goal #2 of the season after winning a championship was getting rid of KP, this part of the deal remains ridiculous to me.
Posts: 801
Threads: 0
Likes Received: 647 in 314 posts
Likes Given: 42
Likes Received: 647 in 314 posts
Likes Given: 42
Joined: Oct 2021
(02-10-2022, 04:35 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Then I look at Bertans shooting 32% on 4 threes in FIFTEEN minutes a game, makes me want to drink more.Â
By almost everyone's calculation, this season is an outlier for Bertans. He has hit 40% on 3's for his career.
Every player in this trade needed a change of venue. But KP is not a player that can "come off the bench" to play. The Mavs weren't going to do that to KP. Both Dinwiddie and Bertans will come off the bench... and not complain about it.
Posts: 15,587
Threads: 52
Likes Received: 7,926 in 4,307 posts
Likes Given: 9,678
Likes Received: 7,926 in 4,307 posts
Likes Given: 9,678
Joined: Aug 2020
(02-10-2022, 04:43 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Well what are the odds that you come to the correct conclusion?
Not quite following, sorry.
Is this an overt insult of my intelligence, or are you trying to add nuance to my point?
No judgement on either, I just want to know if it's worth engaging further.
Posts: 9,549
Threads: 26
Likes Received: 2,775 in 1,559 posts
Likes Given: 1,890
Likes Received: 2,775 in 1,559 posts
Likes Given: 1,890
Joined: Sep 2019
(02-10-2022, 04:42 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Apply logic.
This would be logical, if Mavs had a history of success. Problem is, that Mavs have a history of failures. So using logic, one could conclude that this deal is bad
Posts: 9,168
Threads: 1
Likes Received: 3,368 in 2,004 posts
Likes Given: 355
Likes Received: 3,368 in 2,004 posts
Likes Given: 355
Joined: Sep 2019
(02-10-2022, 04:42 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: What's more likely, that the Mavs are complete idiots, or that a more favorable deal than this one simply didn't exist?
Or they didn't know how to find a better deal. We tend to have favorites with the teams we like to do business with.
Posts: 83
Threads: 0
Likes Received: 79 in 36 posts
Likes Given: 90
Likes Received: 79 in 36 posts
Likes Given: 90
Joined: Jan 2022
(02-10-2022, 04:42 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Apply logic.
What's more likely, that the Mavs are complete idiots, or that a more favorable deal than this one simply didn't exist?
I think they picked this deal because they think Dinwiddie and Bertans can help them win now.
I think they're complete idiots that didn't pick the "better deal" because they didnt want to come away "empty handed" for KP. They can sell this as two rotation players in exchange for KP.
Posts: 1,398
Threads: 0
Likes Received: 541 in 315 posts
Likes Given: 916
Likes Received: 541 in 315 posts
Likes Given: 916
Joined: Sep 2019
(02-10-2022, 04:42 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Apply logic.
What's more likely, that the Mavs are complete idiots, or that a more favorable deal than this one simply didn't exist?
I honestly think that either A) KP's contract is so hated that a more traditional salary dump offer wasn't out there or B) for some reason, the Mavs didn't want his money to expire. They wanted to chop it up into (slightly) more movable pieces.
IF the huge contracts of Hardin, Wall, CP3 (twice!) and others can be moved, then the relatively small deals of Bertans and Dinwiddie are tradeable.
TBH, I'm a little surprised DAL even found a trading partner for KP. Since the team has been playing well without him, I don't think the trade will have any on-court negatives this year. It will be more about getting the new guys integrated and there is an ASB coming up to help with that.
Posts: 4,625
Threads: 5
Likes Received: 1,998 in 1,179 posts
Likes Given: 708
Likes Received: 1,998 in 1,179 posts
Likes Given: 708
Joined: Feb 2021
(02-10-2022, 04:45 PM)omahen Wrote: This would be logical, if Mavs had a history of success. Problem is, that Mavs have a history of failures. So using logic, one could conclude that this deal is bad
BINGO.
@"KillerLeft"
There is your answer.
Posts: 15,587
Threads: 52
Likes Received: 7,926 in 4,307 posts
Likes Given: 9,678
Likes Received: 7,926 in 4,307 posts
Likes Given: 9,678
Joined: Aug 2020
(02-10-2022, 04:43 PM)DrMav Wrote: I think we all hoped that changing up the FO, even with Cuban remaining the central figure would result in positive changes.
I hate the resulting roster (today), but I could look you in the eye with a straight face and claim that letting go of the stubborn need to prove KP is a star (he's not) or even a fit with Luka (he's not) by keeping him and pretending everything is fine IS a positive change.
But who knows, this might've happened anyway, even with Donnie. I think it was just time.
Posts: 83
Threads: 0
Likes Received: 79 in 36 posts
Likes Given: 90
Likes Received: 79 in 36 posts
Likes Given: 90
Joined: Jan 2022
(02-10-2022, 04:44 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Not quite following, sorry.
Is this an overt insult of my intelligence, or are you trying to add nuance to my point?
No judgement on either, I just want to know if it's worth engaging further.
He's saying his logic suggests the Mavs are complete idiots.
Your point was that logic would lead you to believe they couldnt do better.
Posts: 1,751
Threads: 2
Likes Received: 1,074 in 610 posts
Likes Given: 1,119
Likes Received: 1,074 in 610 posts
Likes Given: 1,119
Joined: Mar 2021
(02-10-2022, 04:46 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: BINGO.
@"KillerLeft"
There is your answer.
Yes, surely it couldn't be because you overvalued a potential KP return package.
But hey now we have a reason to go after you boy Mo Bamba.
Posts: 14,010
Threads: 347
Likes Received: 5,591 in 3,114 posts
Likes Given: 3,213
Likes Received: 5,591 in 3,114 posts
Likes Given: 3,213
Joined: Sep 2019
(02-10-2022, 04:42 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Apply logic.
What's more likely, that the Mavs are complete idiots, or that a more favorable deal than this one simply didn't exist?
I honestly think that either A) KP's contract is so hated that a more traditional salary dump offer wasn't out there or B) for some reason, the Mavs didn't want his money to expire. They wanted to chop it up into (slightly) more movable pieces.
The fact that I'm honestly considering the two choices is enough to sow doubt that they POSSIBLY didn't choose a more favorable deal on the table.
I don't think KP's contract was as hated as we're trying to rationalize. I really do think the Mavs (read Cuban) liked Dinwiddie and rehabbing Bertans versus trading KP for air and Dragic. KP for all of his positives just didn't play in enough games and the Mavs wanted to turn him into some guys that could contribute. It remains to be seen if Dinwiddie and Bertans can contribute to a playoff team. The fact we're unsure means it's a bad trade from the get-go no matter what.
Still the Mavs sold as low as they possibly could have, which is just piss poor asset management. If you're giving up your supposed 2nd best player and eating a bad contract in the process, you have to get AT LEAST get something in return. Whether that be a first, a prospect like Kispert, Avdija, Rui, or even a freaking 2nd.
The Mavs failed so hard at that. Which has been a common theme in EVERY TRADE they've made the last 4 years. The only constant is Cuban. He's a buffoon.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
Posts: 4,728
Threads: 78
Likes Received: 1,853 in 991 posts
Likes Given: 3,273
Likes Received: 1,853 in 991 posts
Likes Given: 3,273
Joined: Sep 2019
(02-10-2022, 04:33 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: We should absolutely have asked for a FRP and stood firm.
If that's your position I take no issue with it. I'm not confident in my ability to know whether the Mavs should have been able to extract a first. But where I disagree is that I'm glad they didn't keep KP rather than take the available trade. Getting a first would have been better, but imo, moving KP is better than keeping him until the summer.
Not very astute ^^^^
Posts: 83
Threads: 0
Likes Received: 79 in 36 posts
Likes Given: 90
Likes Received: 79 in 36 posts
Likes Given: 90
Joined: Jan 2022
(02-10-2022, 04:48 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I really do think the Mavs (read Cuban) liked Dinwiddie and rehabbing Bertans versus trading KP for air and Dragic.
This is where I am also.
Posts: 1,751
Threads: 2
Likes Received: 1,074 in 610 posts
Likes Given: 1,119
Likes Received: 1,074 in 610 posts
Likes Given: 1,119
Joined: Mar 2021
(02-10-2022, 04:48 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I don't think KP's contract was as hated as we're trying to rationalize. I really do think the Mavs (read Cuban) liked Dinwiddie and rehabbing Bertans versus trading KP for air and Dragic. KP for all of his positives just didn't play in enough games and the Mavs wanted to turn him into some guys that could contribute. It remains to be seen if Dinwiddie and Bertans can contribute to a playoff team. The fact we're unsure means it's a bad trade from the get-go no matter what.
Still the Mavs sold as low as they possibly could have, which is just piss poor asset management. If you're giving up your supposed 2nd best player and eating a bad contract in the process, you have to get AT LEAST get something in return. Whether that be a first, a prospect like Kispert, Avdija, Rui, or even a freaking 2nd.
There's only 30 people on earth who know how true those bolded statements are.
Posts: 9,168
Threads: 1
Likes Received: 3,368 in 2,004 posts
Likes Given: 355
Likes Received: 3,368 in 2,004 posts
Likes Given: 355
Joined: Sep 2019
Ujiri probably asked for a FRP.
Posts: 15,587
Threads: 52
Likes Received: 7,926 in 4,307 posts
Likes Given: 9,678
Likes Received: 7,926 in 4,307 posts
Likes Given: 9,678
Joined: Aug 2020
(02-10-2022, 04:45 PM)omahen Wrote: This would be logical, if Mavs had a history of success. Problem is, that Mavs have a history of failures. So using logic, one could conclude that this deal is bad
No argument there.
I'm just saying, I think this is them trying to get out from under what might be the worst mistake they've ever made. I don't like how they did it, and have said so many times, but damnit, I'm happy to finally have KP in the rearview mirror. They think this is a step in the right direction, I'm sure, both on the court and in terms of flexibility, and they were unable to find a deal they liked better.
We'll see what happens.
I'm just trying to understand it. We're powerless to act, and we don't know what was available/not available, so the fun part to me is trying to figure out why they did what they did.
Trading for KP was a bad move (I would've made it, too).
Signing him to that MASSIVE extension without ever seeing him play a single game in a Mavs uniform was a terrible move (I would've made it, too).
I'm way not excited about Dinwiddie/Bertans, believe me, but I think there's a decent chance this is a reasonable stepping stone along a path out of this mess.
|