2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682) Pages:
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RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - RDB - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 04:48 PM)omahen Wrote: Because it is not necessary, they will have to pay max. So why pay max upfront? Perhaps there will be no max offer on the table for him and they will negotiate for less. Worst case, they just match the max offer he gets. Plus, because they didn't extend him at max, they have one more season to determine how much he is worth. It would be impossible to trade him, if he would sign his extension. This way they have all the options open. What I am certain - option that they just let him walk for nothing (not match whatever offer he gets) is not on a table for them. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 02-11-2021 Seeing as how the Mavs already have a pretty good arsenal of guards I feel like the spot to upgrade would be to get a scoring big. That's why I like Gallo. Drummond would be good on paper but then I don't think the Mavs have a deal that would make sense for both sides. Horford brings a lot to the table. They would need to take Powell back but I think he's another guy that help with defense, rebounding and even scoring off the bench. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 03:51 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: My gut says that this would be a short term solution at best, and as I've said in the past, I don't have much interest in those right now for the Mavericks. I think they're too far away to waste time with those. They aren't likely to last long enough to pay off, imo.I'm mostly with you on these thoughts, however it does depend. If someone is long in the tooth, but a really good mentor type for one of our 2 "guys" in Luka or KP, I think the long term benefit is they get that mentoring on how to navigate the regular season and playoffs to maximum efficiency for their talents. That is long term value IMO. Love, Horford and Lowry might be these types, not sure Tucker and Young are though. I don't know if JJB was enough of one though and he was pretty much past being useful on the court. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 05:47 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I feel like the spot to upgrade would be to get a scoring big.I'm coming around on this thought IF we can teach KP some tips and tricks to lower his center of gravity so he can bang with the big guys on defense. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - Fuerza1 - 02-11-2021 Not surprised to see more Brunson trade ideas. Keep in mind, 99% of people here wanted to trade him and the rest of the Mavs farm last season for a 30-year old bum currently shooting 34% from the field, 30% from 3, with a 7.5 ppg average. Somebody should post Kyle Lowry's stats when he was the same age as Brunson. Don't forget to include the minutes per game. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - RDB - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 05:08 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: That's the only reason you have a shot to get him. Last year he was a near all-star on a good team. This year he is in a different role and ATL doesn't really know how to use him effectively. Dallas would. Gotta buy low. He would give some scoring punch from the PF spot and I believe you can get him without giving up a top 7 rotation player which is key. Maybe so...I guess I would just like to see us get another major piece that will be around when we get to post max Luka. At some point we are going to have to make some hard decisions on who we want to be. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - Kammrath - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 06:04 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: Kyle Lowry's stats when he was the same age as Brunson I don't want anything to do with Lowry and think Brunson is better. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 05:45 PM)RDB Wrote: Because it is the smart thing to do if he is a cornerstone. We are just spinning in a circle. They were not sure, if he is a cornerstone... They offered 90 mil contract, because this is how much they thought he is worth. He thought he is worth more and decided to bet on himself. This doesn't mean their path is over... Now the Hawks will reevaluate based on half of season performance and make a decision. Trade or keep. (02-11-2021, 05:45 PM)RDB Wrote: Mav’s New Plan A For John Collins Trigg Here is a piece from The Athletic with Hollinger and Atlanta beat writer: https://theathletic.com/2376322/2021/02/09/atlanta-hawks-john-collins-deandre-hunter-cam-reddish/ Quote: What I can’t see happening is Schlenk letting Collins walk in free agency for nothing like what Sacramento did with Bogdanovic. There are really only two options that I can foresee happening: Collins returning on a significant salary or the Hawks trading him in a splashy move. I’m sure they will listen to offers, but keeping Collins just seems like the wise decision because of the player he has grown into. He’s one of the best young power forwards in the league. Even if Atlanta would be willing to just let Collins walk in FA (not match offer sheet), the cost for Mavs would be JRich and THJ, and basically no other way to replace their production. The way for Mavs is to transfer Johnson into a rotation player at TDL and resign their guys, imho. If trade opportunity for a player like Collins appears, you take it, of course. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - RDB - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 06:17 PM)omahen Wrote: We are just spinning in a circle. They were not sure, if he is a cornerstone... They offered 90 mil contract, because this is how much they thought he is worth. He thought he is worth more and decided to bet on himself. This doesn't mean their path is over... Now the Hawks will reevaluate based on half of season performance and make a decision. Trade or keep. On this we agree. I can’t read the article as I am not a member but I think I get the gist from your notes. I also agree that he will not walk for free and have been consistent with that thought. Did you look at the article I posted in my reply regarding thoughts with the Mav’s. https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/dallas-mavs-trade-idea-a-new-plan-a-for-hawks-john-collins RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 06:16 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I don't want anything to do with Lowry and think Brunson is better. I can't agree with this claim. Perhaps Brunson will be better in a few years, but he is certainly not better now. Not even close. Putting aside what it would cost, Lowry would bring exactly what this team needs. Toughness, vet leadership, secondary playmaking, a loud and respected voice in the lockerroom, capable of keeping the youngsters focused, clutch plays. The questions with Lowry are: 1. How long till he starts seriously declining. One could be optimistic, look at CP3 and say - he has a couple more years easily. Not really something we could know, teams have access to far, far, far more data to make a better educated decision on this. 2. Are Mavs really just one (good) vet piece away from becoming a serious contender? In my opinion, the answer is yes. Than we come to the cost. I am of course not willing to throw serious assets for what can become just a 30 mil vet rental. His 30 mil salary makes it a tough match and I assume Toronto doesn't want long term money. Johnson salary is certainly a start, but we need more. We can go three team way by sending Powell somewhere else. OKC still doesn't own all the picks in the league, for example, so they might be willing to help. Alternatevly we could do Johnson+JRich. Or we could do Johson+THJ while Toronto adds Powell. As for assets. I would be all over it if Toronto would take any combination of Green and Terry. I would also give 2027 FRP instead. But I am affraid, Brunson would be most likely the price needed. If the option would be Johnson+THJ+Brunson for Lowry and Powell, I'd do it. Luka, Lowry, JRich, Maxi, KP with Powell, Burke, DFS, WCS/Powell as main bench guys would be a very good rotation. Bring a decent PF with MLE in the summer and here we go. J.Green or Portis would be interesting options. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 06:05 PM)RDB Wrote: Maybe so...I guess I would just like to see us get another major piece that will be around when we get to post max Luka. At some point we are going to have to make some hard decisions on who we want to be. Well sure but that might not be available right now or any time soon, RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 06:17 PM)omahen Wrote: Quote: What I can’t see happening is Schlenk letting Collins walk in free agency for nothing like what Sacramento did with Bogdanovic. There are really only two options that I can foresee happening: Collins returning on a significant salary or the Hawks trading him in a splashy move.This is why you force their hand to either make him a long term player for them or make them deal with you by signing him up with a max no trade clause contract. You then get to deal for him in a position of strength if they decide he isn't a long term player for their team and they make a pennies on the dollar trade for him. That is why they need to decide now if he is a long term player for their team and trade him at the deadline or keep him and match all offers, including a no trade clause one. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 06:48 PM)omahen Wrote: I can't agree with this claim. Perhaps Brunson will be better in a few years, but he is certainly not better now. Not even close. Putting aside what it would cost, Lowry would bring exactly what this team needs. Toughness, vet leadership, secondary playmaking, a loud and respected voice in the lockerroom, capable of keeping the youngsters focused, clutch plays. I would hate to give up Brunson but I think you would have to include Powell as well. I don't see how you get to salary matching Lowry without JJ + one of THJ, Rich, Powell. I am definitely not giving up THJ or Rich. Shedding Powell's money would help with salary obligations bc you would likely be extending Lowry as part of the trade. Rich + JJ for Lowry would be an interesting move if you think the Mavs like Lowry more than Rich. I would consider it but you could argue that it's sort of a lateral move. You give up some defense and outside shooting for a more all-around player in Lowry. Lowry is a good defender and actually rebounds surprisingly well in addition to giving you much better playmaking. I don't think Mavs are looking to move Rich but I would consider a Lowry swap. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 06:39 PM)RDB Wrote: Did you look at the article I posted in my reply regarding thoughts with the Mav’s. Yes I did. It basically assumes Atlanta would have to give him away relatively cheaply (either at TDL or SnT), because they don't want to resign him for max and I utterly disagree with this notion. Contrary to what Trigg is saying, there is also great value to have him in house at TDL, because the buyer gets his RFA status. The quality of players price Mavs would have to pay at TDL is probably much lower than what they would have to give up in FA to make an offer for Collins. With Gallo Atlanta actually has a lot of flexibility with their roster, because it allows them to trade Collins for a piece that is not a PF. Gallo is not guaranteed in his last year, so he is basically expiring next season, if they decide to keep Collins. As I already wrote, it is not true they have any cap problems keeping Collins, even at max contract. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - Fuerza1 - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 06:16 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I don't want anything to do with Lowry and think Brunson is better. I mean not saying Brunson is at Lowry level now nor ever will be but per 36 minutes: Lowry, 34 years old: 17.8 ppg, 6.8 apg, 5.8 rpg. Brunson, 24 years old: 17.7 ppg, 5.4 apg, 4.7 rpg Even if you're in the Lowry camp, why trade valuable assets for a declining PG who will be an Unrestricted Free Agent this summer? Mavs may not even make it to the 2nd round with Lowry if things go right. Lowry could also walk. Mavs are desperate but not that desperate. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 06:54 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: This is why you force their hand to either make him a long term player for them or make them deal with you by signing him up with a max no trade clause contract. You then get to deal for him in a position of strength if they decide he isn't a long term player for their team and they make a pennies on the dollar trade for him. That is why they need to decide now if he is a long term player for their team and trade him at the deadline or keep him and match all offers, including a no trade clause one. Of course, totally agree. They will either trade him or match anything. Hence, there is really no possibility to get him in the summer. This is what I am claiming all the time. That also doesn't mean he will be available for cheap at TDL. Plenty of teams would gladly trade for him. And don't forget - Collins has to accept the offer sheet to squeeze Atlanta. It is also possible they just sign new (max) contract as soon as FA opens. Same as Mavs did with KP. This way they avoid those unwanted no trade clauses you are mentioning. If I am not wrong, they can offer him more (additional year) than other teams can with an offer sheet. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 02-11-2021 I think even to have a shot at Collins you would have to put together your best package of non-KP assets in a deal. So something like Maxi, DFS, Brunson for Collins, Snell would be legal. Would you do that to form a big 3 of Luka, KP, Collins? Starters would be Luka, Rich, THJ, Collins, KP and bench would be pretty thin. You might keep THJ on the bench and put Snell in the starting lineup for defense. This move would probably be more about the future than doing anything this season. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 07:19 PM)omahen Wrote: Of course, totally agree. They will either trade him or match anything. Hence, there is really no possibility to get him in the summer. This is what I am claiming all the time. That also doesn't mean he will be available for cheap at TDL. Plenty of teams would gladly trade for him. Right if I am ATL I don't mess around with Collins, I would just offer him that max contract out of the gate and he will for sure sign it. I think if he makes it to FA he is likely staying with ATL. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 07:28 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: So something like Maxi, DFS, Brunson for Collins, Snell would be legal. Would you do that to form a big 3 of Luka, KP, Collins? I would. We would be a bit thin at back up PF and PG, which we would have to solve with MLE RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 02-11-2021 (02-11-2021, 07:34 PM)omahen Wrote: I would. We would be a bit thin at back up PF and PG, which we would have to solve with MLE Ya I would do it too. Atlanta would be getting some nice pieces including 2 good defenders which they could use. Mavs would be getting their 3rd core piece. As you say Mavs would need to figure out the rest of the roster later. |