2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682) Pages:
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RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - mvossman - 07-07-2021 (07-07-2021, 04:46 PM)JamesConway Wrote: Kleber and Brunson make a sense for ATL in a SnT. Kleber could play the Collins role cheaper and they are reportedly looking for a backup PG. Should be a solid base for SnT negotiations. That seems steep. Especially when you are overpaying with the max. Not sure I would do that. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - omahen - 07-07-2021 (07-07-2021, 04:57 PM)mvossman Wrote: That seems steep. Especially when you are overpaying with the max. Agree. I would do it if their would be a way to still sign the Conley type. If JRich opts out we have 34 mil of cap space. Add Kleber to Collins SnT and we are up to 42 mil. If Collins signs for 25 there is 17 left. Probably light. Dump Burke and we are at 20. Could be enough RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - JamesConway - 07-07-2021 (07-07-2021, 04:57 PM)mvossman Wrote: That seems steep. Especially when you are overpaying with the max. Not sure I would do that.Together they might land you a top 20 pick Imo. For our standards that’s steep, yes, but not in the grand scheme of things around the league. It just sucks that we have barely anything of value outside of Luka. If you don’t want to go down the offer sheet route then you get to their names quickly. What else is there? Rick tried his best to ruin the young guys‘ values, Powell was suspect value before the achilles injury, JRich might be an option, Burke is a minimum guy who lucked into a slightly higher salary, trading DFS opens up another need. KP is the biggest question mark of them all. Maybe he solves the issue for you. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - JamesConway - 07-07-2021 (07-07-2021, 05:12 PM)omahen Wrote: Agree. I would do it if their would be a way to still sign the Conley type. If JRich opts out we have 34 mil of cap space. Add Kleber to Collins SnT and we are up to 42 mil. If Collins signs for 25 there is 17 left. Probably light. Dump Burke and we are at 20. Could be enoughPipe dream: Kleber + Brunson have enough value for ATL to accept Powell’s contract as the last piece in the SnT. That would solve A LOT of issues for us. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Kammrath - 07-07-2021 (07-07-2021, 03:43 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: Thinks Collins signs a max offer sheet with the Spurs Pop would take Collins and make him the center of a perennial playoff team. Collins has so much untapped potential IMO. Would be SO frustrated for him to end up featured in SA. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Tyler - 07-07-2021 (07-07-2021, 03:43 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: There is apparently a lot of momentum in the building towards a Conley + Oubre free agency, after the inevitable Kawhi strikeout. Utah is thirsty for some perimeter defenders and J-Rich + Kleber for Conley fits (Utah expects to let Niang walk as well). It will not be $20M per for Oubre. Interesting. A few thoughts: - Conley seems like a prime candidate for our big FA acquisition. He fits both a need (veteran secondary playmaker who also plays defense) and a pattern (previous big-name Mavs FA target where they finish 2nd but land him later after the contract ages). So I can totally see it. - If operating over the cap, JRich+Maxi can get Conley to $25mm in the first year. Which seems right. So taking your trade suggestion at face value, that makes me want to make other moves first to maximize the use of our cap space. - If Dallas lets THJ go, that leaves about $20mm in cap space. Interestingly, this is exactly what Oubre is rumored to want. So maybe there really is something going on there where Oubre's agent is publicly signaling his client's FA preference. - I don't think Oubre is worth $20mm. And I also don't think he's worth losing THJ for. So I can believe that something is going on with those two guys. But for it to make the most sense to me, one of two things would push it over the top: 1. Split the $20mm between Oubre and another player before trading for Conley. Oubre and that other player would need to be more valuable than THJ + a MLE free agent. For example, (and knowing that Maxi is traded) dividing that money between Oubre and Markkanen could be interesting. Having both on deals just over the MLE could be good options for them and good values for Dallas. Maybe they also let WCS go to free up a few more million to seal the deal. 2. Operate over the cap. Keep THJ, sign Oubre to the MLE, and trade for Conley. Surveying the FA options, I think either outcome could be a pretty effective offseason. The most important thing is to just add talent. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - DanSchwartzgan - 07-07-2021 (07-07-2021, 06:54 PM)Tyler Wrote: Interesting. I guess I picked a good day to initiate the “Kelly Oubre Jr. Day” conversation. I went the opposite in my assumptions. I think you use space on Conley. Utah isn’t going to want JRich. They need to spend their exception on a facilitator if Conley leaves…I’ve heard it said that JRich doesn’t do that well. I have difficulty seeing them going into the tax unless they are doing it for a star. If Oubre is the secondary target, you use the rest of your room (if JRich opts out) or you trade JRich to GS (who I think would be much more likely to spend LT money on a backup guard). JRich can trade match a pretty wide variety of salary levels. If you go through the list of 2021 FA’s, there really aren’t many athletic 3/4 types on the list. We need some athleticism and some force and it is hard to find. If I’m looking for a comp, DJJ got $9.7mm last summer. But, Oubre is a year removed from scoring 18 PPG instead of the 8.5 Jones put up before his deal. Beasley got $15mm and put up 20 per game with better three point shooting and worse D. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Tyler - 07-07-2021 (07-07-2021, 08:38 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I guess I picked a good day to initiate the “Kelly Oubre Jr. Day” conversation. For sure. I was mostly rolling with VP's trade suggestion under the assumption he heard something. But I could also see your approach, too, with Conley as the signing and Oubre as the trade. The benefit is that it would cap Oubre's contract to something a little more reasonable, but the downside is that the available MLE would be smaller for a 3rd guy since we would operate under the cap getting Conley. In any case, the fact that there could be multiple paths to a similar goal doesn't hurt the cause. BTW, I do sorta dig your vision of Luka/Oubre/DFS as a young and highly switchable core on defense. Green and Bey could be effective as the high-energy backups with more minutes. Like you, I might prefer to extend that one more starting spot with a guy like Ball. But assuming he's not an option, Conley would also be a nice get. So here's the natural follow-up to all the point guard talk -- Assuming Dallas signs a starting PG like Conley, Ball, etc, what do they do with Brunson? Keep him to always have two playmakers on the floor, or trade him before he's a FA and is looking for a larger role? RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Kammrath - 07-07-2021 RE: Oubre The guy is clearly athletic and you can see his raw talent....BUT.... 1) The dude can't shoot. Career high 35.2% from three....career 32.6% from three. Career 43.3% from the field. 2) The dude looks like a decent defender from time to time when locked in, but the reality is he does NOT help team D. In recent years he is -2.8, -1.6, +2.0 (half season in PHX), -3.8 (half season in WAS), and -3.4 in on/off D. 3) He also doesn't help O. In recent years he is -8.8, 0.0, +3.6 (half season in PHX), -4.8 (half season in WAS), -3.1, and -6.9 in on/off O. He had ONE half season in PHX where he was a "winning player" and that is it. He is the consummate journeyman who has enough talent and intrigue to keep getting more tries in the NBA, but no team REALLY wants him because the reality is that he is not a good team NBA player. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - cjeter24 - 07-07-2021 (07-06-2021, 11:16 PM)F Gump Wrote: While I tend to generally agree with your thinking that KP is very underrated in this forum, I am certain you are failing to properly recognize the value of DDR. I suspect you overlook the fact that he has a crucial skill that is hard to find (because you fail to mention it at all, in your analysis), yet he has it to a significant degree, and it can make a big difference. He does have secondary playmaking skills...He averaged like 7 assists this year. But in Toronto it was closer to 3 when he played with a legit pg. He's been able to dominate the ball in SA. We know that he's going to be used much more like his Toronto offensive role here because Luka dominates the ball here. Luka will always dominate the ball to an extent and he should. He's the pg and the top scorer. He gets off a ton of mid range shots for himself. and he's efficient in the shorter mid range areas. He's terrible 16-24 feet tho. His eFG has not been good his entire career at 47%. Derozan is the definition of empty stats. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - ClutchDirk - 07-07-2021 https://twitter.com/overtime/status/1412812362336325632?s=19 RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - cjeter24 - 07-07-2021 (07-06-2021, 11:49 PM)cow Wrote: People undervalue DDR because stat heads decided dunks and threes are the NBA. CP3 and Booker take a lot of mid range jumpers. Booker doesn't play a lot of defense. Look at who is in the finals. The difference between Derozan and Paul or Booker is that Booker and Paul are very good in the mid range. Chris Paul is ELITE. I believe the stat got passed around earlier this year that Paul and Luka were the only guys to shoot 50% in the mid range this year. Derozan is ok with his efficiency overall in the mid range. You really need to have high level efficiency there to make the #s work. Booker and Paul can both shoot 3s. Derozan's entire game is the mid range. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - ClutchDirk - 07-07-2021 https://twitter.com/All_Things_Mavs/status/1412912092659732482 RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Kammrath - 07-07-2021 (07-07-2021, 09:44 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: https://twitter.com/overtime/status/1412812362336325632?s=19 I would SO much rather spend $20M on Ball than Oubre. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - cjeter24 - 07-07-2021 I really like the idea of overpaying Conley on a 2 year deal with a team option if Richardson opts in. Dallas could SNT THJ and whoever else needed to make it the cap space work. Why the overpay? Dallas can choose to enter free agency with cap space next year or keep Conley with the option. I think Conley is a nice upgrade over THJ due to the playmaking and defense he creates and he's still a good shooter. Going with the over the cap route, then would allow Dallas to use the MLE to sign forward help. Batum? Maybe you can split it between multiple guys. You would still have Richardson, Powell, and Kleber to salary match deals depending on what you had to use for salary matching Conley. Also some possible SNT pieces or expiring trade scenarios with Conley. You can accept his team option and deal him with your pick at the draft next year. It's a nice group of non max free agents next year better and the max free agents are pretty good too. You would not have cap space going into free agency next year but you'd be able to create it pretty easily IMO. Everyone but KP, Luka, Josh Green and whoever you signed to a longer deals this summer would be expiring. Likely only your MLE. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Tyler - 07-07-2021 (07-07-2021, 04:46 PM)JamesConway Wrote: Kleber and Brunson make a sense for ATL in a SnT. Kleber could play the Collins role cheaper and they are reportedly looking for a backup PG. Should be a solid base for SnT negotiations. If Collins wants Dallas, I'm not sure it will take that much. By my calculations, if you assume Dallas lets THJ and WCS go then they'll have about $23.4mm in cap space. Let's say they want in on Collins at his $28mm max. The easy way is for JRich to decline his option and become a FA. But that's out of the team's control, so let's try the hard way. There was that rumor at the trade deadline that Dallas offered Atlanta Maxi for Collins. Atlanta declined at the time, as that deal wasn't good enough for them during the season. Fair enough. But now things are more complicated in terms of money. To me, the play is easy. Maxi is a pretty good role player on a reasonable contract who would be super easy to gift to any team with cap space or a TPE for nothing but a pick in return. Do that, and Dallas could sign Collins to max offer sheet. So Nico's call to Atlanta is pretty simple -- "Do you want Maxi or not? Because we're trading him and offering Collins a max deal regardless. Your choice." Worst case is that they decline the trade, milk the waiting period, and leave Dallas hanging on other FAs they like before matching. But there's already enough smoke around the ownership hedging their bets about retaining Collins that I'm not sure they'd go that route. So it's certainly not without risk, but it's also something that I think could be negotiated ahead of time via the agent (Schwartz) with a pretty high degree of confidence of what Atlanta plans to do with his client. It will be really interesting to see which teams Collins shows the most mutual interest in outside of Atlanta. Knowing how this business works, I suspect we'll start seeing some rumors leak soon enough. If it's Dallas, I think they have a real shot. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Scott41theMavs - 07-08-2021 (07-07-2021, 09:58 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I would SO much rather spend $20M on Ball than Oubre. $20 mil is Ball's Chicago price. For Dallas, it's likely far closer to $25 mil. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Mapka - 07-08-2021 (07-07-2021, 11:58 PM)Tyler Wrote: If Collins wants Dallas, I'm not sure it will take that much. This means we replace THJ with Collins and lose Maxi on the way. We will be worse on offense and defense ofter this. (07-07-2021, 11:58 PM)Tyler Wrote: There was that rumor at the trade deadline that Dallas offered Atlanta Maxi for Collins. Atlanta declined at the time, as that deal wasn't good enough for them during the season. Fair enough. But now things are more complicated in terms of money. That´s the point. But it didn't complicate the things for the Hawks but for us. I hope, if the Mavs think about Collins, it's plan ß. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - SleepingHero - 07-08-2021 (07-08-2021, 12:02 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: $20 mil is Ball's Chicago price. For Dallas, it's likely far closer to $25 mil. What kind of logic is that? CHI finished 11th in a top heavy east. Mavs finished 5th in a loaded west. If Ball wants to win the choice is easy. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Scott41theMavs - 07-08-2021 (07-08-2021, 12:27 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: What kind of logic is that? He has his supposed choices of where he wants to end up. Dallas isn't one of them. |