2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682) Pages:
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RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - cow - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 04:13 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Mavs would offer him a max deal so he would be a "max" player. We can argue all day whether he should be a max player but the team that signs him will sign him to a max deal so even if he's the "third" fiddle he is still a max RFA guy with potential to be a max UFA in the future. I'm not talking about this contract. Grant took the same contract to go to a lesser team so that he could be featured (bet on himself) so that he could maximize his next contract. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 03:10 PM)Mavs03 Wrote: On Day 1 of free agency...I'm at John Collin's door and presenting him with a contract in the 4 year 110 million range (near the max). He already turned down Atlanta's offer of 4 years 90 million. Atlanta put themselves in a bind by offering ridiculous contracts to Gallinari, Bogdanovic, and Dunn (43 million combined salary). At least they shed Rondo's 7 million contract but they're in a tough spot. Can someone confirm what Collins' max number would be? I was thinking it was lower than some of these other RFAs. I know that Siakim's deal started at 29 mil I believe. I imagine if you are going to money whip Atlanta you need to offer the full max otherwise you run the risk of them just matching. The other scenario is you aren't offering the max but you are having to send Atlanta assets not to match (see Brogdan S&T from a couple of years ago). RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 04:16 PM)cow Wrote: I'm not talking about this contract. Grant took the same contract to go to a lesser team so that he could be featured (bet on himself) so that he could maximize his next contract. Ya I guess that's always possible. I doubt the money was that different though. A lot of these guys want to be on good teams. To me Grant is a little bit different because he was being pigeon-holed as a 3D guy. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - mavsluvr - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 03:48 PM)ballsrchr Wrote: .am I the only one harboring a tiny bit of angst that Luka might not be happy with the direction the Mavericks are taking--and he might not be here in 4 or 5 years? Dirk was one of a kind as a player and for loyalty toward his team. I don't think we'll ever see another like him, nor do I expect Luka to follow in Dirk's footsteps. If the Mavericks let Luka slip through their fingers (and money is not the only factor)...I don't know what I'll do. After 40 years rooting for the Mavs it would be hard to consider moving to another team...but I might... I don't think that's a farfetched idea. Certainly if he's not happy with the team at that point. But, maybe more distressingly, he might leave even if he's okay with the team direction, possibly for reasons largely unrelated to the organization. Young single rich guys like him can find the lure of brighter lights and bigger cities irresistible. A lot depends on Luka's circumstances at the time. I think the takeaway is that we should enjoy our young superstar while we have him. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - omahen - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 04:39 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: single He is not single. He has no family though, if that is what you meant RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - mavsluvr - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 04:40 PM)omahen Wrote: He is not single. He has no family though, if that is what you meant what do you mean? RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - Mavs2021 - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 02:11 PM)omahen Wrote: Max for Markanen??? If you don´t tank properly so you draft Markkannen, Fox, Isaac, then pick DSJ over Mitchell, Adebayo and Monk, you end up in this situation. Seriously. I´m not sure what makes Collins a surefire max contract player and Markkanen not. Both are 23 years old. Collins 55/38/84 18.2 PPG 7.8 RPG 1.5 APG 0.5 SPG 1.0 BPG Markkanen 48/39/84 17.2 PPG 6.0 RPG 1.0 APG 0.5 SPG 0.4 BPG The difference in production is hardly earth-shattering. Both had some injuries, but that would concern me more with Markkanen. At least with Markkanen though you know that the Bulls won´t match a big offer, given all the rumours and that they offered him an extension of 70/4-ish. Furthermore if Collins had an issue with the ball dominance of Young, it won´t be any different with Luka. Ultimately this is just about the upward trajectory of either guy. You win some, you lose some, but what´s even worse is not playing at all. I liked that they took a chance on Barnes. Didn´t work out 100% as they hoped, but I think signing shitty Matthews and Jordan were the far bigger problems. They should have gone after Lavine with a big offer. I think he´d have come here over Kings/Bulls. Though the Bulls might have matched it. That Julius Randle thing is still the most bizarre decision of this franchise. The season before his free agency, when he got the huge Dallas tattoo: 21.4 PPG 8.7 RPG 3.1 APG 0.7 SPG 0.6 BPG Shooting 52/34/75 So I don´t care whether it´s Markkanen, Collins, Ball, Allen, Monk, Collins, it´s upside player trajectory AND trade value. You can trade Markkanen for Beal. You can´t trade Theis and THJ. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - omahen - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 04:42 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: what do you mean? He has a girlfriend for like 7 years now. One of the Mavs beat writers even said they got engaged this summer, although that was the only time I saw it mentioned. I guess Slovenian media would be all over it. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - BasketballJones41 - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 04:45 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: If you don´t tank properly so you draft Markkannen, Fox, Isaac, then pick DSJ over Mitchell, Adebayo and Monk, you end up in this situation.+41 +77 RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - mavsluvr - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 04:49 PM)omahen Wrote: He has a girlfriend for like 7 years now. One of the Mavs beat writers even said they got engaged this summer, although that was the only time I saw it mentioned. I guess Slovenian media would be all over it. Well, if he's not married, he's single. But it's possible that a long-time girlfriend would have similar influences as a wife. Or, that he'll be married and maybe even a dad by that time. The thought being that the siren song of a vibrant nightlife might be less important to a family man. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - mvossman - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 03:53 PM)BasketballJones41 Wrote: I don’t think it’s going to take anywhere near a max to get him. I bet we could work out a pretty low-cost sign and trade for him in the off-season. The bulls have moved him to the bench and it’s pretty obvious he doesn’t have a future there. I’d be willing to bet that his price is somewhere around $15 million to $18 million range. He’d give you a lot of the same things that John Collins would but on a cheaper deal. The other thing I like about him is that I don’t believe we would have any trouble convincing him to come here. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if we were his preferred destination. Don't really get the point of going after someone like Markkanen. He does not really fit any need, not a great fit as I think we need a high level defender in the frontcourt with KP, will cause us to renounce THJ and JRich and operate under the cap (likely accumulating fewer assets), and we will have to overpay to ensure it does not get matched (and even then we could be surprised). RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - MFFL - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 04:45 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: If you don´t tank properly so you draft Markkannen, Fox, Isaac, then pick DSJ over Mitchell, Adebayo and Monk, you end up in this situation. But if we HAD drafted Mitchell, Adebayo or Monk, they would be in New York right now as part of the KP trade RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - ItsGoTime - 04-02-2021 The deal to trade the 22 unprotected for the 23 protected, there could be a new rule but my memory is that you have to have a pick in any 2 consecutive years. That means you can’t trade 22 because we won’t be picking in 21. Now, if we can buy a late 1st, pick it, then trade it away to the team that wants the player (or keep him if we believe in him). That makes the proposed deal available. I think. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - khaled1987 - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 05:55 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: The deal to trade the 22 unprotected for the 23 protected, there could be a new rule but my memory is that you have to have a pick in any 2 consecutive years. That means you can’t trade 22 because we won’t be picking in 21. Now, if we can buy a late 1st, pick it, then trade it away to the team that wants the player (or keep him if we believe in him). That makes the proposed deal available. I think. The rule is that you can't have no 1st round picks for 2 consecutive "future" years RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - BasketballJones41 - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 05:08 PM)mvossman Wrote: Don't really get the point of going after someone like Markkanen. He does not really fit any need, not a great fit as I think we need a high level defender in the frontcourt with KP, will cause us to renounce THJ and JRich and operate under the cap (likely accumulating fewer assets), and we will have to overpay to ensure it does not get matched (and even then we could be surprised). The way I see it, Markkanen is already better and a more valuable asset than JRich or THJ. Then you add in the fact that he’s much younger and and still has quite a bit of upside that I believe he would reach in our system. Getting getting into specifics, I’ll try my best to explain my reasoning but I’m really bad at this format so sorry in advance: Offense: I think the potential two-man game between Luka/Lauri would be everything that we hoped we were getting with Luka/KP. He sets excellent screens and rolls hard to the basket. He can also pull up from anywhere on the floor. I also believe that he could play off of Luka and KP because he moves really well without the ball and he would give them all kinds of space. I think about the debates that we had last year over who should be starting between Maxi and DP. DP was a great screen and roll man but he provided no spacing. Maxi gave you the spacing but he didn’t consistently set quality screens and roll to the basket. Markkanen gives you both of their skill sets all rolled into one on steroids. Plus I love the idea of Luka having 2 7 ft snipers out there creating room for him. Defense: I actually think he has a lot of untapped potential here. When I watch him play he seems to move his feet really well. And he’s got the quickness to stay in front of smaller players. that was actually even in one of his scouting reports coming out of college. Basically I think he could do a lot of what Maxi does minus the shot blocking. I also think that he would improve our rebounding. His second year in the league he grabbed 25% of available defensive rebounds. I see no reason why he can’t do that here. What I can’t wrap my head around is why anybody has watched the season up to this point and is still interested in running it back with Jrich. I’ve seen enough to know that I don’t want that dude back at all. So if the price of playing the restricted free agent game is losing him then I think it’s a risk worth taking. I’d rather work on ways to sign Markkanen and keep Hardaway. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - SleepingHero - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 05:02 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: Well, if he's not married, he's single. I fundamentally just disagree with ya here mavsluvr. A long term girlfriend of 7 years means Luka is most certainly not single. Maybe in the governmental sense, but I don't see why that would matter here. Further, I don't think Luka really cares about vibrant nightlife or anything of that lifestyle. We know he's an avid gamer, and there have been numerous times where Luka answers what he does off the court is eat, practice, and play video games. Here's what his mom thinks about Luka in Dallas long term (at 2:51) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1U_7GepTQk&ab_channel=WFAA "Honestly pretty sure he's going to be there long term." Does he want to spend his career with one team? An emphatic "Yeah". Of course things change. This is by no means etched in stone. What we know for sure is that Luka has strong family values. He likes stability. And he doesn't care much for strippers or what have you. But the one important thing above all is that Luka wants to win. MBT better provide that or he'll leave faster than we can say step-back. And I wouldn't blame him one bit. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - loki - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 05:55 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: The deal to trade the 22 unprotected for the 23 protected, there could be a new rule but my memory is that you have to have a pick in any 2 consecutive years. That means you can’t trade 22 because we won’t be picking in 21. Now, if we can buy a late 1st, pick it, then trade it away to the team that wants the player (or keep him if we believe in him). That makes the proposed deal available. I think. It would have to occur after the 21 draft, and I believe it would have to be two separate trades. 1) 23 protected pick back to Dallas. Now they have both 22 and 23 1sts. 2) 22 unprotected pick to NY. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - mavsluvr - 04-02-2021 (04-02-2021, 06:07 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: A long term girlfriend of 7 years means Luka is most certainly not single.Well, if he tries to file a joint return with her, he'll quickly find out that he's single. And if they break up, and she wants a share of his moolah, she'll quickly find out the same. I don't see any advantage in quibbling about whether one could consider him married in some more spiritual sense. The point is that, even if the Mavs come up with a decent strategic plan, ultimately, whether Luka stays here for all or most of his career is not something the Mavs have total control over. The previous poster posed a question to the effect of whether he was being a little crazy having angst over whether Luka will leave in four or five years. Luka may really want to stay. Or, he may want to move on for reasons not reflecting on the organization. Ergo, the poster is not crazy, and we should enjoy Luka as much as we can while he's here, since tomorrows are inherently not guaranteed. Not intending to make a prediction way or another, as, this far in advance, it's unpredictable with any substantial degree of certainty. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - F Gump - 04-03-2021 (04-02-2021, 04:20 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Can someone confirm what Collins' max number would be? Starting salary max would be $28,103,550. Max 4-year total with a new team $120,845,265. NOTE for Loki - re the idea of Mavs trading with NY to move their owed 2023 pick to another year: (a) after 2021 draft has ended, no rule would prevent such a trade, if the teams wanted to do so, and it could be as simple as trading Dallas's 2022 pick (with whatever protections are negotiated on the 2022 pick) for its 2023 pick (b) trading to essentially move an already-traded pick is something that might be new (don't recall ever seeing it), which makes it extremely far-fetched the teams would consider it -- and perhaps doubly so, as Mavs don't have a tendency to come up with new rules-stretching ideas © it also feels like Mavs want talented prospects to be able to develop sooner, not later, in light of their team trajectory with Luka RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo - 04-03-2021 Luka needs a roll-man. If the Mavs can't get Collins, there's still Richaun Holmes. I think Richaun is quick enough to be a PF. KP-RH-Maxi-Melli-Bobi. rotation looks good to me. |