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RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - mavsluvr - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 06:34 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Sounds great but in reality he is only shooting 36.4% from 3 in the series. Richardson is worse. THJ, Luka, DFS, Maxi and JB are all in the 40% + range.Wrt Maxi, as long as he is passing up shots, you really have to count him as another non-shooter, despite his season percentage.
What do you think is going on with this?
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - omahen - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 06:38 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: What do you think is going on with this?
Imho, Maxi needs like 7 seconds to shoot it. He is only shooting wiiiiiiiiide open threes and can't really put it on the floor, never mind couple of surprises in this series. This is good enough for regular season where defense is a bit loose and there are a couple of instances with Maxi completely open each game. But as defense tightens in the playoffs, those wiiiiiiiiide open looks are mostly gone and time you have to shoot it is greatly reduced.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - KillerLeft - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 06:38 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: What do you think is going on with this?
I've beaten this dead horse a lot, and while some might dismiss it as being overly simple, I'm pretty convinced it's the problem:
Kleber is a good shooter, but his release is simply too damn slow. When he rushes it, they don't go in, and in the playoffs "open" doesn't look the same as it does in the regular season. I have heard JJ Redick discuss this on his podcast with probably five or six different shooters. They think in terms of being able to get shots off, not in terms of making them. Getting them off, when the defense KNOWS you're a shooter, THAT is what separates the guys who get paid from the ones who don't. There was a video making the rounds last year in the bubble of Duncan Robinson starting his shooting motion LITERALLY before the ball reached his hands. Before he caught the ball. THAT's why the league was excited about him, not just because of the percentage.
Maybe Kleber can work on this. Maybe he can learn to get shots off faster. But if not, he'll only be a spacer that can't be all out ignored, whereas guys with quicker releases are guys you can't even consider helping off of.
(06-05-2021, 06:42 PM)omahen Wrote: Imho, Maxi needs like 7 seconds to shoot it. He is only shooting wiiiiiiiiide open threes and can't really put it on the floor, never mind couple of surprises in this series. This is good enough for regular season where defense is a bit loose and there are a couple of instances with Maxi completely open each game. But as defense tightens in the playoffs, those wiiiiiiiiide open looks are mostly gone and time you have to shoot it is greatly reduced.
You were writing this at the same time I was answering. Your explanation is more succinct and just as correct, imo. I agree totally.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - dirkfansince1998 - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 06:38 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: Wrt Maxi, as long as he is passing up shots, you really have to count him as another non-shooter, despite his season percentage.
What do you think is going on with this?
Still made the same amount of 3s. KP is 8/22. Maxi is 8/18.
Back to the topic. I am not concerned about his shooting. His slow release is a problem against long an athletic wing defenders with a quick close out. I am concerned about his movement. We know that he has achilles issues. We know that he had COVID. He has no bounce and lost his lateral quickness. Looks like a completly different player. From best defender on the roster to borderline unplayable within a few month.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ItsGoTime - 06-05-2021
BTW, as far as Powell minutes and PnR play. How many people (including me) said the playoffs takes that away when defenses get tighter and more focused on shutting down individuals? RC agrees with us.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - dirkfansince1998 - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 06:48 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: BTW, as far as Powell minutes and PnR play. How many people (including me) said the playoffs takes that away when defenses get tighter and more focused on shutting down individuals? RC agrees with us.
That´s one of the strangest decisions. Luka-Powell pick and roll was unstoppable in game 5. Let´s not try it in game 6. Would be unfair and we don´t want to embarass the Clippers.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ItsGoTime - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 06:44 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: But if not, he'll only be a spacer that can't be all out ignored, whereas guys with quicker releases are guys you can't even consider helping off of.That position is filled with KP.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - mavsluvr - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 06:42 PM)omahen Wrote: Imho, Maxi needs like 7 seconds to shoot it. He is only shooting wiiiiiiiiide open threes and can't really put it on the floor, never mind couple of surprises in this series. This is good enough for regular season where defense is a bit loose and there are a couple of instances with Maxi completely open each game. But as defense tightens in the playoffs, those wiiiiiiiiide open looks are mostly gone and time you have to shoot it is greatly reduced.
Agree that his slow release is a problem, and probably accounts for a lot of why his defenders feel comfortable helping off him, despite his regular-season percentage. (KP needs much less time to get off a shot, and his defender correspondingly normally sticks to him, even though he is generally less efficient on the more difficult shots that he takes.) But Maxi is actually getting open looks, and intentionally passing them up. Looks like he has totally lost his confidence, although maybe he has an undisclosed injury or something, who knows.
If Maxi can't or doesn't want to shoot, it is puzzling that he is being used like he can and does. I was really taken aback at the Maxi-Willie combo in the fourth, and even mildly surprised that he was in the closing unit. Maybe this is all easy for me to say with the benefit of hindsight, but I really did wonder about it in real time.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - mavsluvr - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 06:44 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I've beaten this dead horse a lot, and while some might dismiss it as being overly simple, I'm pretty convinced it's the problem:Had not heard the podcast info, thanks for mentioning.
Kleber is a good shooter, but his release is simply too damn slow. When he rushes it, they don't go in, and in the playoffs "open" doesn't look the same as it does in the regular season. I have heard JJ Redick discuss this on his podcast with probably five or six different shooters. They think in terms of being able to get shots off, not in terms of making them. Getting them off, when the defense KNOWS you're a shooter, THAT is what separates the guys who get paid from the ones who don't. There was a video making the rounds last year in the bubble of Duncan Robinson starting his shooting motion LITERALLY before the ball reached his hands. Before he caught the ball. THAT's why the league was excited about him, not just because of the percentage.
Maybe Kleber can work on this. Maybe he can learn to get shots off faster. But if not, he'll only be a spacer that can't be all out ignored, whereas guys with quicker releases are guys you can't even consider helping off of.
Made my reply to omahen before reading your post, and looks like you better made the case for Maxi possibly being unwilling to shoot because he is afraid he can't get the shot off.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - KillerLeft - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 06:50 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: That position is filled with KP.
What position is that?
I hope you don't mean "guy they don't consider helping off of" about KP, because all of the other KP apologists have been telling me nonstop that "if Luka just passed it to KP when he's open...blah, blah."
I actually think they're helping off of KP quite a bit. Same as Kleber.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - mavsluvr - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 06:46 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Still made the same amount of 3s. KP is 8/22. Maxi is 8/18.
Back to the topic. I am not concerned about his shooting. His slow release is a problem against long an athletic wing defenders with a quick close out. I am concerned about his movement. We know that he has achilles issues. We know that he had COVID. He has no bounce and lost his lateral quickness. Looks like a completly different player. From best defender on the roster to borderline unplayable within a few month.
Thank you, very good points on Maxi and his injury/illness. It has indeed been a sad and dismaying thing to witness this (hopefully temporary) steep decline.
The other thing that interests me about the shooting is that the Mavs have developed this tendency to shy away from shooting as this series progresses. It is most pronounced with Maxi, but also applies to some of the other Mavs. I admit that I didn't see this coming. It's almost like they're afraid of the moment. Or, maybe it's something coming from the coaching staff, I don't know. But seems very uncharacteristic.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ItsGoTime - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 06:46 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I am concerned about his movement. We know that he has achilles issues. We know that he had COVID. He has no bounce and lost his lateral quickness. Looks like a completly different player. From best defender on the roster to borderline unplayable within a few month.Wasn't he having back issues right before the playoffs too (that was at least the reported issue)? That's a lot of things all in 1 season.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - KillerLeft - 06-05-2021
Yeah, the regression on Kleber's defense has been depressing.
Is it temporary, due to some current, nagging injuries, or is he just at a point where NBA life has gradually sapped him of enough quickness and mobility that we're starting to notice?
I don't know, but if it's the latter I think his days as a rotation player on a good NBA team are somewhat numbered.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ItsGoTime - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 07:16 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: or is he just at a point where NBA life has gradually sapped him of enough quickness and mobility that we're starting to notice?Only if his name is Kristaps.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - KillerLeft - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 07:24 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Only if his name is Kristaps.
Same questions apply to Porzingis, too. I agree.
With him there's even more though, as it is now beyond obvious to anyone paying attention that he and the organization (and probably he and Luka) aren't really on the same page.
In Kleber's case, it's a bummer if he's declining already, but it's not the end of the world. Easy to trade. And if not, he just expires and we forget he ever existed. Porzingis gets paid more than Dirk used to, and was supposed to be a foundational piece of the team moving forward. Yikes. Big, big, HUGE problem.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - jesusshuttlesworth82 - 06-05-2021
Maxi is hurt again at playoff time. Been questionable with a sore achilles almost the whole series. He's my 2nd favorite Mav but he seems to always be hurt at key times, kinda like Seth was here.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - omahen - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 06:50 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: That´s one of the strangest decisions. Luka-Powell pick and roll was unstoppable in game 5. Let´s not try it in game 6. Would be unfair and we don´t want to embarass the Clippers.
It was unstoppable against Zubac
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - dirkfansince1998 - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 07:29 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Same questions apply to Porzingis, too. I agree.
With him there's even more though, as it is now beyond obvious to anyone paying attention that he and the organization (and probably he and Luka) aren't really on the same page.
In Kleber's case, it's a bummer if he's declining already, but it's not the end of the world. Easy to trade. And if not, he just expires and we forget he ever existed. Porzingis gets paid more than Dirk used to, and was supposed to be a foundational piece of the team moving forward. Yikes. Big, big, HUGE problem.
Would need to find a new guy from Wurzburg. There always needs to be on guy from Wurzburg on the roster.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ItsGoTime - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 07:35 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Would need to find a new guy from Wurzburg. There always needs to be on guy from Wurzburg on the roster.How much do I need to pay someone to get my son's birth certificate changed to Wurzburg? Guaranteed money when he gets out of HS!!!
There's my retirement plan!
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - mavsluvr - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 07:34 PM)omahen Wrote: It was unstoppable against Zubac
a key point