HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | TRADED to WAS

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RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ClutchDirk - 06-01-2021

[Image: image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.onecms.io...oments.jpg]

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Aussiebballer - 06-01-2021

The big issue I see for the Mavs is any true title contention in the next few years depends on KP getting healthy and becoming a 2nd star player.
If they trade him now they are not getting back a player that moves them up to a top 5 team in the league.

So we all better hope KP is still recovering from various injuries and that a full offseason can get him back to great 2 way threat.

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-01-2021

(06-01-2021, 09:14 PM)Aussiebballer Wrote: So we all better hope KP is still recovering from various injuries and that a full offseason can get him back to great 2 way threat.

I think that ship has sailed

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Aussiebballer - 06-01-2021

Everyone seems to think KP is shot and won’t get his lateral movement back so will be a liability on D from now on.
If true I would believe the professional scouts employed by NBA teams will also come to this conclusion.
Hence the Mavs will get pennies back in any KP trade, especially as his contract is massive.

Is Horford and a late 1st going to move the Mavs up the ladder?

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-01-2021

(06-01-2021, 09:26 PM)Aussiebballer Wrote: Everyone seems to think KP is shot and won’t get his lateral movement back so will be a liability on D from now on.
If true I would believe the professional scouts employed by NBA teams will also come to this conclusion.
Hence the Mavs will get pennies back in any KP trade, especially as his contract is massive.

Is Horford and a late 1st going to move the Mavs up the ladder?

I think the first sentence is true but GMs will talk themselves into KP being a good fit for their team. He still had a good offensive season and maybe the Mavs "aren't using him right" or maybe he needs a full offseason where is isn't rehabbing. There is still enough potential and upside that I actually think you are able to sell as high as you are going to be able to sell this offseason.

There should be a market for KP and I don't think it will be 50 cents on the dollar. Maybe a team thinks hey I will get a discount, but thought goes away as soon as they know there are other offers on the table. I don't believe KP is going to yield some amazing Beal-type player but I do think Mavs can get a very good player or set of players that will help this team. KP defensively has been brutal and offensively he doesn't fit. I don't think he is contributing to winning basketball even when he scores like 18 points. I just believe if you can get some good players back that fit and have a good attitude, Mavs will be much better off.

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - DanSchwartzgan - 06-02-2021

(06-01-2021, 09:14 PM)Aussiebballer Wrote: The big issue I see for the Mavs is any true title contention in the next few years depends on KP getting healthy and becoming a 2nd star player.
If they trade him now they are not getting back a player that moves them up to a top 5 team in the league.

So we all better hope KP is still recovering from various injuries and that a full offseason can get him back to great 2 way threat.

First, let's define what we actually gave up for KP so we can see what 50-cents on the dollar looks like. The 21st pick this year, an unprotected pick in 2023 and what? Expiring guys that weren't retained and a former lottery pick who probably won't get his $7mm QO this summer (but who did, combined with a second, net expiring Derrick Rose). That's not much, but 50-cents on that is very little. I agree with SBJ that some GM will talk themselves into KP, but it will probably be as a third "star" on a team where the window is short. People will say things like "I don't want Bertans" in a Wiz deal or Tristan Thompson in a Boston deal. But, there will be some unpleasantness in what we get back...especially if it is a draft day trade where both teams have to trade match.

Second, we were better this season without KP, so it isn't critical that we get a star to replace him. KP cost us 4.9 points per 100 possessions any time he walked onto the court this season. We were fifth in the west for the season and our net rating was sixth in the league (the LEAGUE) from March first on. Where would this team have been without all of that craziness and with some net neutral guy playing center? The point being that we are probably already close and if you remove the negative and use cap space well, there is a path to getting there (because "there" isn't that far away).

Below is a narrowed and amended (thanks to DF98) list of what I think is realistic from the perspective of the other team. I've removed GS, Detroit and Toronto from my list and I'm not buying the proposed additions of NO and SA:

Boston: RWIII plus Smart + Thompson - They have Fournier and youth to replace Smart who can walk in a year
Charlotte: Rozier plus youth (McDaniels?) - They have Graham/Monk to replace Rozier who can walk in a year
Washington: Bertans and Bryant plus Avdija - We have to eat overpaid but useful Bertans to get young but so-far disappointing Avdija

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - TXBamanut - 06-02-2021

(06-01-2021, 02:59 PM)Benskix2 Wrote: Again, because he misses too much time to develop a consistent rhythm with his teammates or is too physically limited to be effective. I think we would be better off with a player 75-80% of his skill level that played 30% more games.

Well, with the intention of just dropping him from the offense, will ensure you get 60-70% of the skill level in trade. You will probably get your wish. But be careful what you wish for. Hail to the Davis Bertans era starting in Dallas!

If Rick does this, I hope you are right.

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Kammrath - 06-02-2021

(06-02-2021, 07:41 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: we were better this season without KP, so it isn't critical that we get a star to replace him.

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Chicagojk - 06-02-2021

(06-02-2021, 07:41 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: First, let's define what we actually gave up for KP so we can see what 50-cents on the dollar looks like. The 21st pick this year, an unprotected pick in 2023 and what? Expiring guys that weren't retained and a former lottery pick who probably won't get his $7mm QO this summer (but who did, combined with a second, net expiring Derrick Rose). That's not much, but 50-cents on that is very little. I agree with SBJ that some GM will talk themselves into KP, but it will probably be as a third "star" on a team where the window is short. People will say things like "I don't want Bertans" in a Wiz deal or Tristan Thompson in a Boston deal. But, there will be some unpleasantness in what we get back...especially if it is a draft day trade where both teams have to trade match.

Second, we were better this season without KP, so it isn't critical that we get a star to replace him. KP cost us 4.9 points per 100 possessions any time he walked onto the court this season. We were fifth in the west for the season and our net rating was sixth in the league (the LEAGUE) from March first on. Where would this team have been without all of that craziness and with some net neutral guy playing center? The point being that we are probably already close and if you remove the negative and use cap space well, there is a path to getting there (because "there" isn't that far away).

Below is a narrowed and amended (thanks to DF98) list of what I think is realistic from the perspective of the other team. I've removed GS, Detroit and Toronto from my list and I'm not buying the proposed additions of NO and SA:

Boston: RWIII plus Smart + Thompson - They have Fournier and youth to replace Smart who can walk in a year
Charlotte: Rozier plus youth (McDaniels?) - They have Graham/Monk to replace Rozier who can walk in a year
Washington: Bertans and Bryant plus Avdija - We have to eat overpaid but useful Bertans to get young but so-far disappointing Avdija

The KP equation is so tricky. You have fit issues, is he happy, does Luka like him, and the ever present injury concerns. I maintain the easiest and quickest way for the Mavs to be a contender is getting KP to play to his potential.

I look at the names you mention above, I like several of those guys. Am intrigued by others. You mention the Mavs have played better when KP is off the floor and that is a good point. But I just keep on coming back to the point is how do the mavs elevate themselves to contender status against teams like a healthy Brooklyn, a healthy Denver, a healthy Philadelphia, etc moving forward. The guys listed above are good players, but I don't know if any move the needle. The Stephen Adams, Bertans, etc are just guys imo. Some may help long term, but I think it just leaves us as a team that doesn't have enough.

So I am still holding out for KP to work here. It doesn't look good now. But I would hate to trade him without me seeing how I think he should be utilized.

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Kammrath - 06-02-2021

(06-02-2021, 07:41 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Boston: RWIII plus Smart + Thompson

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1400097834448326665

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - SleepingHero - 06-02-2021

We are all forgetting rule number 1 here:

Never trade with Danny Ainge

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-02-2021

(06-02-2021, 07:41 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Boston: RWIII plus Smart + Thompson - They have Fournier and youth to replace Smart who can walk in a year
Charlotte: Rozier plus youth (McDaniels?) - They have Graham/Monk to replace Rozier who can walk in a year
Washington: Bertans and Bryant plus Avdija - We have to eat overpaid but useful Bertans to get young but so-far disappointing Avdija

1. Boston - I think this is a good move for both teams if Mavs can't find a better deal and basically have to sell somewhat low. Smart would be a great addition to the backcourt finally, RW and Thompson would probably be useful rotation players altho Thompson I think would end up being TDL filler (which is fine). For Celtics this is an easy deal to pull the trigger on. They have 2 great wing defenders so they can help clean up mistakes for KP on the defensive end.

2. Charlotte - A Rozier-based trade makes sense in that Charlotte will not want to risk a lot given that KP might not be thrilled to arrive at a non-contender. If they make a move for KP I don't think they would put a lot on the table.

3. Washington - I also think this is pretty fair. I don't believe Bertans is overpaid, I think if you look at high volume, high % outside shooters, 15 mil+ is the going rate. Shooting from the forward position is also a premium in that there are fewer high % shooting bigs than there are guards so that also pushes up the price. I have no doubt Mavs would have use for Bertans. Mavs need to collect as many shooters as possible. Ideally Mavs would have more 2-way players like the Clippers but the supply of those players exceed the demand. For the Mavs to take full advantage of Luka they need a roster full of shooters.

I do believe there will be other offers and probably one that is better than the ones mentioned above but these are fair deals to me even if the Mavs have to sell low on KP. I don't believe KP is in the Kemba bucket (yet) of being basically untradable.

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-02-2021

(06-02-2021, 09:49 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: We are all forgetting rule number 1 here:

Never trade with Danny Ainge

Well DA might not be around much longer. Also the bloom is off of that rose. He used to be the gold standards for GMs but no longer.

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-02-2021

(06-02-2021, 09:26 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: So I am still holding out for KP to work here. It doesn't look good now. But I would hate to trade him without me seeing how I think he should be utilized.

I am over it. I think there's only downside from here on out. Dude is a loner, defense is getting worse, injury concerns are mounting, fit in the offense just isn't there. Mavs will get more trading him now than trying to make it work one more year.

He is really 1 big injury away from becoming virtually untradable. The best news right now is that he doesn't have an injury so GMs could talk themselves into a summer of conditioning, etc. to get him back to the "old" KP. I picture him being more like late career Aldridge, who became a major liability on defense and KP is much less efficient than even late career LA.

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - dirkfansince1998 - 06-02-2021

(06-02-2021, 07:41 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: RWIII plus Smart + Thompson - They have Fournier and youth to replace Smart who can walk in a year

I am still thinking about a Fournier + Smart package. As mentioned Smart is their best trade asset and I am not sure if they are all in on keeping Fournier but I am sure that they are all in on not losing Fournier for nothing. They probably want to stay in the over the cap / no tax sweet spot.
Would create a shortage of SG minutes for them but they have three former first round picks (Pritchard, Langford, Nesmith) on the roster that can play at SG.
For the Mavs I would absolutely love it. Resigned THJ+Fournier should be enough to compensate for the lack of another allstar level creator. Healthy Smart would probably be the defender in franchise history (that´s just sad). Throw the remaining capspace at a PF/C (maybe enough for Collins).

(06-02-2021, 07:41 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Charlotte: Rozier plus youth (McDaniels?) - They have Graham/Monk to replace Rozier who can walk in a year

Makes a lot of sense for both teams. Not the biggest fan of Rozier but maybe he can rediscover his defense in a different system. Would prefer Bridges but the Mavs cannot be too picky. McDaniels brings length and athleticism. Something the Mavs are missing right now.

(06-02-2021, 07:41 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Bertans and Bryant plus Avdija - We have to eat overpaid but useful Bertans to get young but so-far disappointing Avdija

Probably my least favorit option among the three proposed deals. Bryant reminds me of Harrell with better outside shooting. Nice to have on offense but with the same defensive short comings. Also coming back from an ACL injury. Same for Bertans. Great shooter. Liability on defense. I like Avdija but he has a long way to go. Would probably ask for another asset (probably a pick or Gafford).

Edit: Just mentioned that the Mavs cannot be too picky. Should apply the same logic to my own posts.

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-02-2021

(06-02-2021, 10:13 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I am still thinking about a Fournier + Smart package.

Ya a Fournier S&T package would be good in that you get another shooter altho he is sort of redundant with THJ. For Celtics they would be basically getting KP for Smart since they didn't have to give up much for Fournier. Mavs would be very guard-heavy. I might also try to get RW3 for Burke since the trade is weighted in BOS' favor.

Main rotations would be something like:

Luka/Brunson
Smart/Green
THJ/Fournier (interchangeable in starting lineup)
DFS/Maxi/FA wing (Batum, etc.)
Powell/RW3/WCS

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - SleepingHero - 06-02-2021

Are we overrating Smart perhaps a bit? Sure he's an emotional leader and his defense, when he's on, is All-NBA level.

But he's also a horrid scorer. He at times becomes a black hole (at least thats what avid Celts fan Bill Simmons says). Trading KP for him would be a step back.

I like Smart. I just don't know if he'd be a good fit around Luka especially because he can't space the floor.

Another way to think of it as, does Smart bring something new to the table that Josh Richardson didn't have? And seeing how Richardson failed mostly because he couldn't space the floor, I'm wary to bring Smart in to play that same role.

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - dirkfansince1998 - 06-02-2021

(06-02-2021, 11:46 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Another way to think of it as, does Smart bring something new to the table that Josh Richardson didn't have? And seeing how Richardson failed mostly because he couldn't space the floor, I'm wary to bring Smart in to play that same role.

Shooting is definitely a concern but even with his terrible shooting splits he still had a better TS% than Richardson on slightly higher volume. Smart is a super streaky shooter. Can be borderline unplayable. Can be a legit 2nd or 3rd option.
And for all the black hole talk Smart averages 4+ assists for his career. Nearly six this season. He is a better ballhandler and passer. Especially in the pick and roll.
Richardson did not only fail because he couldn´t shoot. He would probably be starting right now if he could defend PG or Kawhi. Or any of the star level guards that torched the Mavs this season. Smart would be a big upgrade on defense.

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - dirkfansince1998 - 06-02-2021

(06-02-2021, 11:35 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: Ya a Fournier S&T package would be good in that you get another shooter altho he is sort of redundant with THJ. For Celtics they would be basically getting KP for Smart since they didn't have to give up much for Fournier. Mavs would be very guard-heavy. I might also try to get RW3 for Burke since the trade is weighted in BOS' favor.

Main rotations would be something like:

Luka/Brunson
Smart/Green
THJ/Fournier (interchangeable in starting lineup)
DFS/Maxi/FA wing (Batum, etc.)
Powell/RW3/WCS

Should be at least 15m left to upgrade the front court. And the rE.
Let´s say THJ+Fournier 35m, Smart 14.3m. RW3 is still on a rookie deal.

RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-02-2021

(06-02-2021, 12:30 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Shooting is definitely a concern but even with his terrible shooting splits he still had a better TS% than Richardson on slightly higher volume. Smart is a super streaky shooter. Can be borderline unplayable. Can be a legit 2nd or 3rd option.
And for all the black hole talk Smart averages 4+ assists for his career. Nearly six this season. He is a better ballhandler and passer. Especially in the pick and roll.
Richardson did not only fail because he couldn´t shoot. He would probably be starting right now if he could defend PG or Kawhi. Or any of the star level guards that torched the Mavs this season. Smart would be a big upgrade on defense.

Agreed with all of these points. The challenge with Smart is going to be making him more selective with his shots. He will jack up some shots that will make us nuts. If he is able to be more of a facilitator then I think his numbers will go up. That will be Rick's challenge. But man in a playoff series having Luka and Smart as your backcourt would be badass.

Mavs could opt to keep THJ as a scorer of the bench if they want to start DFS as your glue guy then have a big defensive wing (Batum, Maxi) + a rim-roller.