(05-12-2021, 04:17 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Have we discussed this yet? https://nypost.com/2021/05/12/mark-cuban-throws-kristaps-porzingis-into-controversy-with-luka-doncic/

KP disputed Cuban's comments about "dust-ups" with Luka in a Spanish interview yesterday.

(05-12-2021, 04:14 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Let me go big picture. I don´t think Knicks KP was as good as some people want to make us believe. He was way better on defense (legit top 5 rim protector) but his offense was mediocre. Solid volume, below average scoring efficiency and no playmaking for others. The entire hype was based on KPs potential. A unicorn with deep 3-point range that could play like a guard on offense and dominate the paint on defense. It never translated to team success for the Knicks but the potential was obvious. In stretches KP was putting up outstanding numbers (25/10, 2+ blks, great shooting percentages). Overall he only had one season with above average 3-point shooting. This is the first season of his career with above average TS. He also struggled with minor injuries and faded as the season progressed (anemia related).

Don´t think the Mavs made a mistake when they traded for him. It was a gamble and in hindsight they probably would be more hesitant but at the time it was the right move.
And this is where it gets more complicated. I already mentioned that the entire KP hype was more about his potential (not his on court production). That hasn´t changed. The entire "Unicorn" fantasy sounds great but in reality he has clear limitaitons and instead of being a nightmare matchup for the opponent RC has to figure out ways to hide him on defense.
We are getting flashes (bubble last season) but overall he isn´t living up to his contract. Things could obviously change. Maybe he just needs to stay healthy and will take the next step within the next two years but that´s a big "maybe".
If the Mavs want to keep KP they are gambling on two things. Him staying healthy. Him improving as a player. I would gamble on his health if he would have Durant/Embiid/Davis impact. I would gamble on his development if he could stay healthy. He misses out in both cases. Not quite good enough to accept the big risk. Not healthy enough to expect big improvements.

(05-12-2021, 03:30 PM)F Gump Wrote: Too many here are advocating to "take whatever offer you get, and move on" based on the belief that KP has no NBA value, to the Mavs or anyone else, and they have to hope for a taker. In their mind, any return is a good deal.

That's just absurd.

If you decide you want to move him, you only get great value when you demand great value. And to some team, perhaps quite a few, a KP who might be ill-fitting in Dallas could be the piece they feel they have been waiting for. Tease, talk, dangle, bargain, let buyers figure out how much better KP will be on their team, let them compete to meet your price and more. The mindset should be to "negotiate for a good deal" and refuse to settle for less. Unicorns are expensive, EVERYONE knows that and starts with that mindset, and you're an idiot if you have a unicorn and only ask for scraps.

I'd equate it at the very least to the trades the Mavs made to move Antoine Walker and Antwan Jamison years ago. They were very talented players, who didn't fit. The Mavs looked for a return commensurate to how other teams valued those players, and they got it, rather than one based on the clunky fit in Dallas. They certainly didn't take "whatever they could get."

(05-12-2021, 04:14 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: The entire "Unicorn" fantasy sounds great but in reality he has clear limitaitons and instead of being a nightmare matchup for the opponent RC has to figure out ways to hide him on defense.
We are getting flashes (bubble last season) but overall he isn´t living up to his contract. Things could obviously change. Maybe he just needs to stay healthy and will take the next step within the next two years but that´s a big "maybe".
If the Mavs want to keep KP they are gambling on two things. Him staying healthy. Him improving as a player. I would gamble on his health if he would have Durant/Embiid/Davis impact. I would gamble on his development if he could stay healthy. He misses out in both cases. Not quite good enough to accept the big risk. Not healthy enough to expect big improvements.

(05-12-2021, 05:32 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: Your comment about RC having to hide him on Defense.  How was he in the Bubble on defense?  I dont really remember talk about him being trash.  I assume that in the Bubble when there is more at stake is the best way to determine how good or bad he is on Defense.  I dont know the game well enough to know if he did poorly or not on defense....or...a better way to ask regardless on if he did the small things good or not....was he a liability in the Bubble on Defense?

(05-12-2021, 05:32 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: Good response.

Do you think his play in the Bubble was just a good stretch?  Do you think he would be a liability in a WCF or Championship?

Your comment about RC having to hide him on Defense.  How was he in the Bubble on defense?  I dont really remember talk about him being trash.  I assume that in the Bubble when there is more at stake is the best way to determine how good or bad he is on Defense.  I dont know the game well enough to know if he did poorly or not on defense....or...a better way to ask regardless on if he did the small things good or not....was he a liability in the Bubble on Defense?

(05-12-2021, 04:29 PM)F Gump Wrote: Mavs world would be much better if Cuban learned to shut up. Unfortunately he's too in love with the sound of his own voice. So he'll keep shooting off his mouth and shooting himself in the foot, and Mavs fans will have to live with the fallout.

(05-12-2021, 06:04 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: This rebuttal paints an extremely inaccurate picture of where I am with this. 

I am not suggesting they "take what they can get." I am suggesting that his worth is what it is.

(05-12-2021, 07:03 PM)F Gump Wrote: Market or trade value is all perception, and negotiation, and tease, and salesmanship. Market value is what you make it, to a significant degree. You have to define the market value by your expectations - and then work to get even more.

(05-12-2021, 07:03 PM)F Gump Wrote: Some will walk because they are hoping you're in "take any offer we can get mode", but others will figure out how they can meet that cost - and those are your buyers.

(05-12-2021, 07:16 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: You can disagree with the idea that he makes the team worse, and who knows - next year he might come back and make this entire conversation silly. But, IF he REALLY is as bad as he has looked this year (and OMG has he looked bad this year) then I'm honestly unsure what we're arguing about.

(05-12-2021, 08:44 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: All the flaws you have been pointing out can be worked on and he can get better at. He still has youth on his side. He just hasn’t been healthy long enough to do so.

(05-12-2021, 07:16 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Ok, sure. 

But in this case, we're talking about a guy who misses a lot of games and often plays badly when healthy.etc etc etc

(05-12-2021, 09:45 PM)F Gump Wrote: The Mavs have The Unicorn. The Unicorn. Anyone buying is expecting they can find a way to lessen or erase the flaws, but they will shine a spotlight on the flaws. But the smart seller remembers "If you want a unicorn, you pay a unicorn price." Come hard after him, or don't bother at all, would be my attitude.

(05-12-2021, 09:45 PM)F Gump Wrote: Yes that's what the buyer says, trying to get him at half price.

Even if KP has a flaw here or there, I promise EVERY asset being offered in return will have its own flaws too! Those buyers will come to you, hoping to get your guy for players they aren't really satisfied with. They WANT what you have. And they think the flaws can be minimized or erased if they have that player. But before buying, those flaws are all they want the conversation to focus on, not the treasure or great and rare value you have in your hands.

Gotta think like a seller here.

The Mavs have The Unicorn. The Unicorn. Anyone buying is expecting they can find a way to lessen or erase the flaws, but they will shine a spotlight on the flaws. But the smart seller remembers "If you want a unicorn, you pay a unicorn price." Come hard after him, or don't bother at all, would be my attitude.