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RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - dynamicalVoid - 05-02-2021
I didnt read everything here on the Charlotte and KP trade...
And...I dont know anything about Charlottes books...
What is the word on Charlotte other than they need a center? I know they are stacked with backcourt guys. I know nothing about Nick Richards, Jalen McDaniels, Vernon Carey Jr, Bismack Biyombo...can they lean on those guys and KP in the front court?
I understand you have to give something to get something...but Washington and Bridges out of their frontcourt seems like a hard sell?
Have you heard that team talk...they claim they have something special brewing(they are one of the more fun teams to watch too). LaMelo and Bridges seem to not only get along awesome....but the lobs Melo puts on a platter for Bridges routinely seem like something they would not want to disrupt.
I have not looked at Charlottes books or how often these guys are being played. Is Bridges one dimensional and not worth keeping around? Seems like Melo would like to keep him.
Melo might not care at all.
Just going by what I have heard those guys say in interviews, how fun they seem to be having playing together...Washington and Bridges(their front court + maybe Rozier) for oft injured KP seems like a hard sell.
Someone enlighten me
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - SleepingHero - 05-02-2021
(05-02-2021, 05:55 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: I didnt read everything here on the Charlotte and KP trade...
And...I dont know anything about Charlottes books...
What is the word on Charlotte other than they need a center? I know they are stacked with backcourt guys. I know nothing about Nick Richards, Jalen McDaniels, Vernon Carey Jr, Bismack Biyombo...can they lean on those guys and KP in the front court?
I understand you have to give something to get something...but Washington and Bridges out of their frontcourt seems like a hard sell?
Have you heard that team talk...they claim they have something special brewing(they are one of the more fun teams to watch too). LaMelo and Bridges seem to not only get along awesome....but the lobs Melo puts on a platter for Bridges routinely seem like something they would not want to disrupt.
I have not looked at Charlottes books or how often these guys are being played. Is Bridges one dimensional and not worth keeping around? Seems like Melo would like to keep him.
Melo might not care at all.
Just going by what I have heard those guys say in interviews, how fun they seem to be having playing together...Washington and Bridges(their front court + maybe Rozier) for oft injured KP seems like a hard sell.
Someone enlighten me
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/charlotte-hornets/article251032449.html
They're desperate in CHA. Now are they desperate enough to swing for the fences on a fit that isn't clear cut and for a risky move just cause KP is a borderline all-star? That I don't know.
Bridges is a highly athletic combo forward that is a hustle type guy. His defense is so-so from my eye test in the CHA games I've watched this year. I think CHA would be fine giving up Washington+Bridges for the right guy. KP does seem to be the big name acquisition and that feels like the right price for him.
I just don't think the Mavs would do it though as it'd be selling low.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ThisIStheYear - 05-03-2021
Mavs won’t get much for Zinger, if anything. He’s damaged goods with a terrible contract. Maybe they can hope for an expiring deal or a give away to a team with cap room or maybe a team trying to salvage losing a free agent by taking Zinger in a sign and trade. Zinger just hasn’t been there when the Mavs needed him. It’s been a lost season. The rest of the league sees that.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - omahen - 05-03-2021
(05-03-2021, 12:35 AM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: Zinger just hasn’t been there when the Mavs needed him. It’s been a lost season. The rest of the league sees that.
I didn't realize season was over today...
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Hooper21 - 05-03-2021
Only eight games left and he's played less than 2/3 of the games so far. He got a max contract before he played a game for us with the expectation that he was going to remake, rebuild, and rebalance his body to make it more durable. If he's going to eat up a significant portion of the salary cap and was/is expected to be the other half of the team's star tandem, then there should be an expectation of him being a regular contributor. If he's not, it puts an extra burden on Luka, physically, and as a lot of others have speculated might lead to him wanting out of Dallas.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - RedFlag41 - 05-03-2021
The Mavs should be very cautious with KP's health, as much as possible, make sure stays healthy during the playoffs, build his value, then trade him during the off season for players who will contribute consistently.
A KP and JRich for Wiggins and Wiseman will be a fair trade for me.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - dynamicalVoid - 05-03-2021
(05-03-2021, 09:57 AM)RedFlag41 Wrote: The Mavs should be very cautious with KP's health, as much as possible, make sure stays healthy during the playoffs, build his value, then trade him during the off season for players who will contribute consistently.
A KP and JRich for Wiggins and Wiseman will be a fair trade for me.
I would have to know what is being offered/declined in KP deals to be in on that Wiggins/Wiseman deal.
Do Mavs think Wiggins shot is good enough? His defense isnt a problem I dont think(maybe Im wrong).
Do the Mavs think Wiseman can be a p-n-r/lob threat? He is sloppy on offense but young. He isnt afraid to shoot the 3...but it isnt always pretty. Does he have the drive to put in work to turn into a 3 threat? Does he have the attitude to be tough on defense? He seems to have the length and be quick enough to be disruptive.
Trading KP and JRich(questionable contract) for Wiggins(terrible contract unless you think he has matured and the game slowed down for him) and Wiseman who is a project that hasnt looked great?
KP is injury prone and misses games...but he can play in this league at a top level. And he is 7'3.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - HoosierDaddyKid - 05-03-2021
KP suffers lower extremity injuries, because he's basically a 7'3 beanpole. His base isn't strong enough to endure the punishment his body takes. Unless he's able to add some weight, muscle and strength he's going to continue to have issues.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - dirkfansince1998 - 05-03-2021
(05-03-2021, 11:01 AM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: KP suffers lower extremity injuries, because he's basically a 7'3 beanpole. His base isn't strong enough to endure the punishment his body takes. Unless he's able to add some weight, muscle and strength he's going to continue to have issues.
There is no real solution. Muscle and strength means that he would also add weight and that will most likely increase the risk of hip, knee and ankle injuries. He obviously has to find the right balance and I doubt that he is anywhere close to his "perfect" NBA body right now but in the end we just have to accept that most players with his combination of size and athleticism are simply more linjury-prone.
I actually think that the current style of play makes it even harder for bigmen. Most 7ft+ or 250+ players simply aren´t build for quick lateral movement.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - RedFlag41 - 05-03-2021
KP's being injury prone is the reason why they should trade in for a player who will contribute to winning. One cannot contribute to winning if he cannot play regardless of how talented or skillfull he is. I would rather have Wiggins who will play and contribute something every game. KP not playing most of the games means a wasted salary capspace for the Mavs.
Wiseman can contribute as ge develops as a back up center with, hopefully, someone like Richaun Holmes starting at center, someone who can be an effective pick and roll partner for Luka.
Wiggins can catch and shoot or make play for himself within the offensive system and flow of the game.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - omahen - 05-03-2021
(05-03-2021, 12:08 PM)RedFlag41 Wrote: Wiseman
Wiseman had season ending injuries in his last two seasons. We already have a back-up center, paying him 10 mil per. If you trade for someone like Wiseman, it is because you believe he will be your starting center of the future, not a back-up. Back-up centers are extremely cheap this days.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 05-03-2021
(05-03-2021, 09:57 AM)RedFlag41 Wrote: The Mavs should be very cautious with KP's health, as much as possible, make sure stays healthy during the playoffs, build his value, then trade him during the off season for players who will contribute consistently.
A KP and JRich for Wiggins and Wiseman will be a fair trade for me.
I don't like that trade unless Mavs are enamored with Wiseman. Wiseman looked fine to me this year but I wasn't like wow this is a future star. He seems like a good player, the book is out on whether he will be worthy of the #2 pick. Contrast that with say Ball or Halliburton who looked like stars almost immediately.
If Mavs take on Wiggins he would be the medicine not the prize. I just don't think of him as a winning basketball player. So I would not do Wiggins/Wiseman, I would rather keep KP and keep my options open. I would have to get that Minney pick in any GSW deal. I think they would do Wiggins/Minney easily for KP who fits their timeline. Keeping Wiseman would make sense as a guy they slowly bring along and his value is too low to trade imo. If GSW moved him now they wouldn't get full value bc he didn't really impress his rookie season.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - dynamicalVoid - 05-03-2021
Another thing with KP's value that no one talks about...
What can he do in playoff atmosphere?
Small sample size...but he killed it last year. If we make it and he duplicates that...he should be more valuable, imo. Market dictates things...I get it. You have to have a willing and able buyer.
What I am trying to say is...the missed games is annoying...but lots of guys are load managing these days...and, sure...KP got hurt in a playoff series last year which hurt the team...BUT what really matters in a KP deal is what a Unicorn can do in the playoffs.
If he was Shaq...teams wouldnt care about his missed games in season...they know the guy can produce in playoffs. KP isnt Shaq...but I think he can produce in playoffs...which should be taken seriously in negotiations.
You cant pay a guy 30+M and he miss playoff games, though.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 05-03-2021
(05-03-2021, 01:09 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: Another thing with KP's value that no one talks about...
What can he do in playoff atmosphere?
Small sample size...but he killed it last year. If we make it and he duplicates that...he should be more valuable, imo. Market dictates things...I get it. You have to have a willing and able buyer.
What I am trying to say is...the missed games is annoying...but lots of guys are load managing these days...and, sure...KP got hurt in a playoff series last year which hurt the team...BUT what really matters in a KP deal is what a Unicorn can do in the playoffs.
If he was Shaq...teams wouldnt care about his missed games in season...they know the guy can produce in playoffs. KP isnt Shaq...but I think he can produce in playoffs...which should be taken seriously in negotiations.
You cant pay a guy 30+M and he miss playoff games, though.
I do think KP will do well in the playoffs this year (absent injury of course). I hope that keeps his value high so that we can sell high on him. I just don't think he's a long-term fit even though he's a good player. If he can show-off talent and Mavs can sell high then that would be perfect.
What's more likely to happen is that he will look good and Mavs will be like see KP is awesome and hang onto him too long.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - dynamicalVoid - 05-03-2021
(05-03-2021, 01:19 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I do think KP will do well in the playoffs this year (absent injury of course). I hope that keeps his value high so that we can sell high on him. I just don't think he's a long-term fit even though he's a good player. If he can show-off talent and Mavs can sell high then that would be perfect.
What's more likely to happen is that he will look good and Mavs will be like see KP is awesome and hang onto him too long.
Thats fair and I agree with everything you said...
Im more concerned with selling super low and giving someone a guy that produces in the playoffs.
Maybe his fit is so bad its worth it to sell low....but I would try and send him to a team that is really bad. Giving him to contender for cheap is making your quest for a Championship harder, imo.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 05-03-2021
(05-03-2021, 01:24 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote:
Thats fair and I agree with everything you said...
Im more concerned with selling super low and giving someone a guy that produces in the playoffs.
Maybe his fit is so bad its worth it to sell low....but I would try and send him to a team that is really bad. Giving him to contender for cheap is making your quest for a Championship harder, imo.
So it sort of depends how you define sell low. Some ppl think a GSW trade would be low. I think that whenever you are trading away a star you are probably not getting a star back. Usually its picks or young players or something like that.
A star for star deal just seems very unlikely. Some ppl have floated CJ for KP which is maybe the closest thing to a 1-1 trade that is more or less an even trade.
To me any Brogdon-based trade I am interested in. GSW maybe depending on how Mavs value that Minney pick and/or whether they would include a third team.
I am interested in a Charlotte package which some would say is selling low but to me if you get back 2 starters that fit the Mavs plans then its not selling low.
KP is a good player and I will not be upset necessarily if he returns next year. The concerns however are many:
- His body type is prone to injury
- He seems unhappy with his role in the offense
- His fit in the offense is not as ideal as envisioned
- Defensively he might limit the Mavs (ie drop coverage has not been good)
I have a feeling KP in the playoffs will be noticeably different. I expect him doing more hard rolls to the basket and being much more aggressive on the defensive boards especially. I also think he is going to look good to great defensively bc we will get 110% effort (absent injury of course).
My issue is we don't really have luxury of saving KP for the playoffs every year. Mavs need players that help in the reg season and playoffs.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - dynamicalVoid - 05-03-2021
I guess I am in the "need that Minny pick if it conveys" group when discussing a Warriors deal. Wiggins and Wiseman seems risky. Wiggins seems to be a decent player...but not 30M decent.
Unless Mavs have feel they know what they can do with Wiggins and are confident in building Wiseman up...it seems risky.
I dont know who all is available in the next draft or what that high of a pick can get you in trades.
Im cool with CJ, Brogdon and Rozier trades. Those guys are proven to produce night in night out. Wiggins is inconsistent and Wiseman is an injured player with possible potential.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - cow - 05-03-2021
KP's value due to his availability and contract is probably 50 cents on the dollar right now but trading him for Wiseman (a questionable top prospect in a weaker draft with injury issues of his own) and Wiggins would be a disastrous trade. Wiggins is a massive negative asset. We might as well pack Luka's bags if that is the deal.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - dynamicalVoid - 05-03-2021
(05-03-2021, 02:36 PM)cow Wrote: KP's value due to his availability and contract is probably 50 cents on the dollar right now but trading him for Wiseman (a questionable top prospect in a weaker draft with injury issues of his own) and Wiggins would be a disastrous trade. Wiggins is a massive negative asset. We might as well pack Luka's bags if that is the deal.
People keep talking about this Wiggins trade...
Question...
If GSW make it and Wiggins looks good in the Playoffs...does that change your opinion of him?
I would still consider him to be an inconsistent shooter even if he lights it up in the playoffs....but if he shows offensive IQ with passing, taking it to the hole and getting buckets/foul and buckets plus locking down his man as a defender...would that change peoples opinion of Wiggins? Or is the contract still just too much?
I am thinking he makes more mistakes on offense when teams are playing hard in the playoffs. Hopefully we get to see if he has turned a corner and earns his paycheck.
Buzz around him has been positive this year and would like to see him in a playoff atmosphere.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - cow - 05-03-2021
(05-03-2021, 03:01 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: People keep talking about this Wiggins trade...
Question...
If GSW make it and Wiggins looks good in the Playoffs...does that change your opinion of him?
I would still consider him to be an inconsistent shooter even if he lights it up in the playoffs....but if he shows offensive IQ with passing, taking it to the hole and getting buckets/foul and buckets plus locking down his man as a defender...would that change peoples opinion of Wiggins? Or is the contract still just too much?
I am thinking he makes more mistakes on offense when teams are playing hard in the playoffs. Hopefully we get to see if he has turned a corner and earns his paycheck.
Buzz around him has been positive this year and would like to see him in a playoff atmosphere.
Wiggins needs to be your 4th option. He's paid like your 1st option. This is his 8th season and he still struggles with decision making. I thought GSW made a tactical error in the DeAngelo trade as they should have gotten more in return for taking Wiggins back. I'm still of that mind.