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RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Kammrath - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 02:36 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Where are you getting those stats?
https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612742/lineups-advanced/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=2
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Kammrath - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 02:59 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: KP is a part of almost every positive lineup if we are simply ignoring all the other positive lineups and ignore all the negative lineups that feature him. I think I am taking a break for the rest of the day. This is going nowhere.
The KP defending has definitely reached pretty ridiculous, biased, and blind levels at times and from some posters. For those, nothing is ever good enough when it comes to copious amount of stats saying there is a problem. And then TINY sample sizes are used to justify why "everything is just fine."
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - SleepingHero - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 03:36 PM)Kammrath Wrote: The KP defending has definitely reached pretty ridiculous, biased, and blind levels at times and from some posters
Kamm, lets not name call people that disagree with you.
In fact you can just replace "KP defending" with "KP attacking" and the sentence works just as well for the people on the other side.
It's obvious this topic has become contentious and extremely frustrating for everyone involved. Instead of dividing lets just sit back and see what happens.
I understand both people just want to be correct and are staring at the otherside saying "how can they not see" but it's getting to the point where everyone is screaming into the void past each other.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 04-30-2021
It's hard to judge KP off last night bc he clearly wasn't trying at all. Not sure what to make of that. It's definitely not good but I don't think it's bc he's hurt.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Kammrath - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 04:15 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Kamm, lets not name call people that disagree with you.
Pretty sure that's not name calling. Just saying the "KP defending" has been "ridiculous, biased, and blind" at times. I think that is true.
And you probably think the same for the "KP attacking."
It is unfortunate it has become contentious and I think the reason is that both sides see the potential balance of the franchise at stake. Those who defend KP think he is as good as the Mavs are going to get...those wanting him gone think that if something doesn't happen soon key years of Luka's time will be utterly lost.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - MFFL - 04-30-2021
I might be in the minority but I have maintained the opinion that regular season KP doesn't matter to me. KP's play in this year's playoffs is where I'll draw my conclusions
If he misses time in the playoffs again or doesn't act like he cares, then I want KP gone (hopefully for a reasonable return). But if he plays well then I don't care what regular season stats you can pull up
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ClutchDirk - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 08:00 PM)MFFL Wrote: I might be in the minority but I have maintained the opinion that regular season KP doesn't matter to me. KP's play in this year's playoffs is where I'll draw my conclusions
If he misses time in the playoffs again or doesn't act like he cares, then I want KP gone (hopefully for a reasonable return). But if he plays well then I don't care what regular season stats you can pull up
Until 2011 I thought so much about regular season JET and how he was going to disappear in the playoffs...
If a player can help you to the playoffs and rise to the occasion is the only thing that matters in the end...
If KP pulls a JET then I will think about dusting off my pitchfork...
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - TXBamanut - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 05:13 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Pretty sure that's not name calling. Just saying the "KP defending" has been "ridiculous, biased, and blind" at times. I think that is true.
And you probably think the same for the "KP attacking."
It is unfortunate it has become contentious and I think the reason is that both sides see the potential balance of the franchise at stake. Those who defend KP think he is as good as the Mavs are going to get...those wanting him gone think that if something doesn't happen soon key years of Luka's time will be utterly lost.
It seems to me that there's quite a bit of bias on both sides o that argument. I think your stat analysis in the above post doesn't account for a lot of stuff....strength of opponents, composition of the five man squad, roles and expectations, wear and tear that it takes to be an "elite contender" when you are dragging the world on your back, just to name a couple of things... For example, we dont' have a guard who can throw a decent timely entry pass, so just about every time KP gets a great advantage, they can't read the situation and give him a sweet pass. To be honest, the best entry passes I've seen to the post is KP to Luka in the post...so that's going to skew his stats, because we don't make use of his strengths.
If I'm reading you right, you seem to want to make KP a useless guy to jettison, but if that's all you have, you need to work harder.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ItsGoTime - 04-30-2021
My single issue with KP is his health and the nervousness I feel every time he takes the court thinking "is this the game he gets another injury"? I think he's a great player and has been working through a lot of adversity. He has been much worse on defense this year and that sucks, but no one is going to tell me that this team is better off trading him for 50 cents on the dollar.
If we can get at least what we paid to get him (as Omahen stated, that was even a steal at the time) back in value, I'm fine with moving on. Otherwise, I want him here and to make Donnie and RC figure it out!
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - KillerLeft - 04-30-2021
(04-30-2021, 11:24 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Otherwise, I want him here and to make Donnie and RC figure it out!
I get where this viewpoint is coming from, but the absolute best case explanation for this season is that he's simply not playing as hard as he needs to in order to contribute adequately. I simply don't see how Donnie and Carlisle can affect change in that department. At the end of the day, KP is either team-oriented winner or he's not. I'll concede that the door is still open for him to prove he is, but I don't see how the current situation is anyone's fault but his. They have bent over backwards to placate him.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Branduil - 04-30-2021
I think the one things both anti-trade and pro-trade sides agree on is we need KP to be healthy and play well this postseason.
I don't think anyone is particularly arguing that we should just trade KP for cap space with no plan for what to do with it... rather, we need to replace his salary with players who fit with the heliocentric, pick-and-roll heavy offense that would be best suited for Luka and this team. If you look at KP's actual skills, rather than what we wish him to be, what makes him valuable is his ability to let you play 5-out as one of the most dangerous stretch 5s in the game. The problem is that it turns out 5-out offense is probably not the best way to maximize the Luka-centric offense.
So if you want to look at teams that would trade for KP, you want to look for teams where his skills make sense. This the reason Golden State keeps coming up as a trade partner- their best years came when they were able to run a 5-out offense, and they're known for an egalitarian offensive style, which would likely make KP much happier- he would basically be able to play the Durant role in their offense (Of course the other half of their teams was their defense, where KP's fit is questionable, but they're unlikely to find another actual Durant). The other piece of the puzzle is the team needs to be okay with KP's salary while not relying on him as their 2nd-best player. This also works with GS since the core of their team is Curry/Klay/Draymond and KP would be playing a supplementary role, and they'd just be replacing Wiggins' salary which they're already locked into.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Kammrath - 05-01-2021
(04-30-2021, 11:51 PM)Branduil Wrote: the best way to maximize the Luka-centric offense
Yep.
This quote from Cuban recently was actually very encouraging to me:
"When you have a generational talent like Luka, you build around him. It’s pretty straightforward and obvious. And the more games you play with him as the focal point, the more you learn what pieces you need and then you do your best to go out and get them."
I think this season has been incredibly educating about what you need around Luka. And KP is not that.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Mapka - 05-01-2021
(05-01-2021, 12:15 AM)Kammrath Wrote: Yep.
This quote from Cuban recently was actually very encouraging to me:
"When you have a generational talent like Luka, you build around him. It’s pretty straightforward and obvious. And the more games you play with him as the focal point, the more you learn what pieces you need and then you do your best to go out and get them."
I think this season has been incredibly educating about what you need around Luka. And KP is not that.
It's funny what someones POV make us all hear, when other people are talking.
To me this sounds like they are done with the Delon/JRich kind of players as a shooting guard. More so when he talks about Luka/KP relationship as something manageable.
Wouldn't be suprised if he talked about Melli-JJR-JJohnson-WesIwundu. This trade might also show, that they are on the right way.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Branduil - 05-01-2021
(05-01-2021, 12:27 AM)Mapka Wrote: It's funny what someones POV make us all hear, when other people are talking.Both can be true. Neither KP nor JRich are good fits with Luka.
To me this sounds like they are done with the Delon/JRich kind of players as a shooting guard. More so when he talks about Luka/KP relationship as something manageable.
Wouldn't be suprised if he talked about Melli-JJR-JJohnson-WesIwundu. This trade might also show, that they are on the right way.
I would say this team has several kinds of players
Strong talent, bad fit- KP
Decent talent, strong fit- Maxi, DFS, Powell, Brunson, THJ, JJR
Mediocre talent, bad fit- JRich
Mediocre talent, decent fit- Burke, WCS, Melli, Boban
The problem is there are zero players on this team with a strong fit and talent better than "decent."
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Mapka - 05-01-2021
(05-01-2021, 12:31 AM)Branduil Wrote: Both can be true. Neither KP nor JRich are good fits with Luka.
I'm done with talking the Luka/KP fit.
But KPs talent is worth to work about issues and building chemistry and looking for smoothering pieces, if there is a bad fit.
JRich ...
Regarding strong fit, I think we need players that support Lukas strengths, but also keep his heliocentric style in check. That second part is never on a big. We need another "star", no matter about our Bigband (like what my autocorrection did here).
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - loki - 05-01-2021
CP3-to-6 weeks
Web Embiid
Anthony Day-to-Davis
Kristaps Recoveringis
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - DanSchwartzgan - 05-01-2021
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2021/4/29/22408327/the-long-term-fit-of-luka-doncic-and-kristaps-porzingis-has-nothing-to-do-with-offense?fbclid=IwAR2hst7uKVjj6CSMqzDdZxS95eREZPQ0HhT0NhpqBFel-ixpwBfbmYYVZ8I
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - radioaktiv - 05-01-2021
The problem with trading KP is nobody's good enough for this fanbase. Since 2011, outside of Dirk and Luka, I can't think of a single Mav that some guys at some point wanted to give away, no matter how good they were. Brunson was a choice trade fodder just months ago, for example. Sure, we'd love to have Player X on the roster but give any new Mav a few months and we'll want to trade them again for Player Y.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Thukydides - 05-01-2021
(05-01-2021, 04:11 AM)radioaktiv Wrote: The problem with trading KP is nobody's good enough for this fanbase. Since 2011, outside of Dirk and Luka, I can't think of a single Mav that some guys at some point wanted to give away, no matter how good they were. Brunson was a choice trade fodder just months ago, for example. Sure, we'd love to have Player X on the roster but give any new Mav a few months and we'll want to trade them again for Player Y.Strongly disagree here. It's all about value (performance/salary). And of course the truely untradeable guys, who noone would ever consider moving are only maybe 3-5 in this league. Even guys like Curry. Don't you think, Warriors would move him in a split second, if Mavs offered Luka. Of course they would. If you can get more value than Brunson offers, you do it. If you can get more value than KP offers (or is projected to offer - I should add), you do it. Certainly this can go terribly wrong sometimes (J-Rich for Seth). Still it's worth the consideration in most cases
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Branduil - 05-01-2021
(05-01-2021, 04:11 AM)radioaktiv Wrote: The problem with trading KP is nobody's good enough for this fanbase. Since 2011, outside of Dirk and Luka, I can't think of a single Mav that some guys at some point wanted to give away, no matter how good they were. Brunson was a choice trade fodder just months ago, for example. Sure, we'd love to have Player X on the roster but give any new Mav a few months and we'll want to trade them again for Player Y.Yes clearly the problem since 2011 is with the fanbase having too high expectations and not the abject failure of the front office to acquire a worthy star next to Dirk until he was taking his retirement lap.