+- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | TRADED to WAS (/showthread.php?tid=56)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - TXBamanut - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 01:17 PM)DaRiv Wrote: I'm seeing what a lot of you are seeing. Terrible chemistry between KP and Luka. During the game and post-game. To me, the tell-tale sign is Luka all but force-feeding Melli the ball for him to shoot. But ignoring KP to the point that KP is wailing his arms at the top of the key when he is wide open.
KP is going to demand a trade, if he has not already.
And Luka's post-game comments "isn't anyone entitled to a bad game?" is really off-putting. He is deliberating freezing KP out, it's not like Luka is working for great shots and it just isn't falling when he's the best option.
I saw SBJ respond to this and I had to respond ALSO.
That is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. The other night, it was like Luka was on a mission to get Melli a bucket....but KP, not so much. When KP is standing there with his defender off of him by 8-10 feet at the FT line and Luka looks him off and does a dribble-dribble contested stepback...WHY???? I'd be mad if I were KP.
It is REALLY showing. I've heard Luka asked about KP early in the season or last year, and it was all "KP this" or "KP that" and if he was asked that question about KP getting involved in the 4th last year, he would have been "Yes, KP is a great player and I need to do a better job of getting him in his flow", but now...not so much.
I had a convo on Twitter with some dude who's handle is LD777fan and he was putting it all on KP, like KP wasn't open for the last 7 minutes of the game in the 4th except one time and that was when Luka threw him the ball and he got stripped out of bounds and the Mavs got the ball back.. I went back and watched the last 6 minutes and in the two of the first three possessions that KP is back in, he's sitting there with his defender 8 feet away from him, WITH HIS BACK TURNED TO KP, as Luka takes on 3 guys or jacks up a crazy shot.
I pointed that out and he's like "all you can come up with is 2 examples? You are creating a narrative." I was like "Dude, when you say 'he's not open in the last 7 minutes' and in the 2 of the first 3 trips down the floor it's just like I said, what do you need?"
Some people have their narrative. I don't like KP and a lot about his game, but I'm practical. If he's on this team, as this team is constructed, you HAVE to work the offense to get him the ball and treat him like he's Robin to Batman...if you don't, you should trade him and get someone else, because the simple fact is this will ALWAYS be a problem, if your second best guy is a big man and you don't pass him the ball because you don't like him, you are ALWAYS going to be in a problem. It's just reality.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - TXBamanut - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 04:18 PM)omahen Wrote: I think this stretch was more about Rockets reserves being bad than Mavs lineup being so much better without KP. I think Mavs actually played good defense in the first half, with the exception of PnR drop coverage. They were forced (or just training time?) to switch to zone defense because of that.
He played good defense lately, but his defense yesterday was bad again. Mavs were killed by Wall-Wood PnR. There was this one time KP gave Wall like 3 meters of space and Wall still blew by him for a layup. On the other side, as you said, Luka - KP PnR didn't produce anything as Houston was just switching everything.
Still, I think Mavs played excellent basketball lately, once KP stopped worrying about his shots and forcing stuff. Everyone is dissapointed by this terrible loss, but I still have hope Mavs pull it together in the playoffs. I think this game is more about not being 100 % mentally than as a reference of things being fundamentally wrong. It will be certainly interesting to see how they respond tonight.
The Mavs were playing this really weird zone D in the last 6 minutes when KP came in. Super fluid and all over the place.
In all fairness, John Wall can do that to any big man in the league, and most everyone else...but yeah, it was bad.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 04:18 PM)omahen Wrote: I think this stretch was more about Rockets reserves being bad than Mavs lineup being so much better without KP. I think Mavs actually played good defense in the first half, with the exception of PnR drop coverage. They were forced (or just training time?) to switch to zone defense because of that.
I hate our PnR drop coverage. When you have Melli in KP you can switch everything and the defense looks a lot better. Let's face it the Mavs are going to morph into Harden's Rocket's team construction. The optimal situation for a Luka type player on a contender is a switchable defense and outside shooter. Melli is sort of a prototype of what might be the long-term plan there.
Rick doesn't want to play KP, Luka doesn't want to pass to him, it's maddening. I just think it's not a fit. Mavs will move towards more shoot (sorry J Rich you're out) and switchable defenders. They also want a secondary ball-handler which makes sense but it needs to be a guy that can co-exist with Luka.
One big issue with Harden is that they tried two alphas (CP3, Westbrook) next to Harden which didn't work out chemistry-wise in the long-term. They almost made it work with CP3 but he got injured in the playoffs one year. They also held onto Capella too long. Mavericks have hindsight on their side to sort of perfect the Houston model.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - cow - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 02:26 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: The only thing is that Siakam is a much worse player than KP. Ideally he'd fit perfect next to Luka/KP, but a Luka/Pascal pairing is much worse in my eyes.
I guess I'm just looking for starting off points. You probably aren't going to return equal value for KP at this point given his situation here and injury history. Given the talent of Luka/KP, I can't imagine the pairing going much worse at this point short of a war of words and trade demands. Siakam also seems like the type of player that Luka elevates. You'd probably get some additional draft compensation and/or a path to dump Powell.
Further, if a KP trade does happen, I think it's best to be prepared that we are going to get cents on the dollar.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 04:58 PM)cow Wrote: Further, if a KP trade does happen, I think it's best to be prepared that we are going to get cents on the dollar.
We better not or he shouldn't get traded. I don't care if Luka and KP hate each other. I believe there are good trades to be had out there.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - cow - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 03:31 PM)HanspardShowerVoice Wrote: KP is rapidly becoming the new Wes Matthews/Harrison Barnes. Luka plays incredibly sloppy all night, 3 of our 5 starters go a combined 12 points in 89 minutes .. and the first finger gets pointed at KP.
I kind of disagree. I think most everyone likes KP. He's had stretches where he is what we thought we were getting with the trade. He's certainly playing better during this stretch than we all those trade rumors hit. He also carries himself well and is very thoughtful with the media. Sure we can all get frustrated when he chucks threes but he isn't the only superstar on this team doing that. And during this stretch of good play we had the Boston game were we sat him in the 4th quarter because we let a team down 20 dictate our matchups and the game last night were we might as well have sat him for the 4th quarter. I need my max contract guy to get shots every period of time he is on the floor. I don't want to pretend to understand the dynamics of the Carlisle-KP-Luka relationship but something's not working but if I had to guess, I'm putting a lot of blame on Carlisle and Luka. When DFS is missing shots and passing up shots, the head of the snake is telling him to keep shooting. When KP calls for the ball at the top of the arc, he gets ignored. Even if you think you have a better chance at scoring the ball (he didn't), sometimes you need to defer. Hell, Luka passed up a wide open Luka during Melli's first game to get him an easy look. I'd be pissed if I were KP right now and as evidenced by my insanity here, I certainly wouldn't be handling at well as he is.
(04-08-2021, 05:05 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: We better not or he shouldn't get traded. I don't care if Luka and KP hate each other. I believe there are good trades to be had out there.
I'm not saying pennies on the dollar but you could be look at 75 cents on the dollar pretty easily.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 05:08 PM)cow Wrote: I'm not saying pennies on the dollar but you could be look at 75 cents on the dollar pretty easily.
Ya I guess I would have to see what the trade ideas are. For some people on this board they think KP stinks so one man's 75 cents on the dollar is someone else's 200 cents and visa versa.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Scott41theMavs - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 05:05 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: We better not or he shouldn't get traded. I don't care if Luka and KP hate each other. I believe there are good trades to be had out there.
Unless something turns around in a major way by the end of the playoffs, the Mavs *will* trade KP to the highest bidder. Embrace it. It will be cents on the dollar, but hopefully it's a lot of cents. Look at it this way - JKidd demanded a trade, and the Zachanelli Mavs got what would have been a decent return if Cassell hadn't been grousing about how he didn't want to be there and was looking to get paid in free agency. Of course, the Mavs didn't have much left on their roster after trading JKidd aside from Finley and Cassell, so it's easy to see why he wasn't high on returning. Our situation is different now. You can get a decent return if there are a lot of bidders.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - cow - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 05:12 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Ya I guess I would have to see what the trade ideas are. For some people on this board they think KP stinks so one man's 75 cents on the dollar is someone else's 200 cents and visa versa.
Because of how few games he's played in and if you compare it to our KP trade, and using my completely made up Siakam idea:
-Saikam (lesser, healthier player), a FRP (we gave up two), Powell (we took on more bad contracts in Lee and THJ) + filler or a 3rd team to make the salaries work.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Kammrath - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 04:05 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: KP is one of the worst screeners I have ever seen.
It feels to me like his whole style of play right now is one of "injury risk avoidance." And it seems like the Mavs aren't fighting or resisting it in any obvious way to me as a fan.
Which leads me all back to the constant gut feeling I have of this situation which is that KP and the Mavs have agreed to move him this summer and neither party wants him hurt before then.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 04-08-2021
For example in this article today: https://www.inquisitr.com/6487050/nba-rumors-gsw-would-continue-pursuit-of-kristaps-porzingis-in-2 suggests "In order to convince them to send the Latvian center to Golden State, the Warriors would likely need to give up a trade package that includes James Wiseman and the Minnesota Timberwolves' 2021 first-round pick." which sounds about right to me and is a fair trade.
I wouldn't do that until after the lottery where we know the pick conveys to GSW (which happens early anyway). Wiseman is sort of a wildcard to me, I don't know how the MBT evaluates him. The high pick would be really good and sort of balance out concerns around Wiseman. I also don't know how the Mavs evaluate Wiggins. I would no longer say Wiggins is a bad contract in that he puts up good production and his deal only has two years left. It's possible that the trade would get expanded to a third team for some of the pieces.
If Wiggins did go to the Mavs you would probably start him in the spot currently occupied by J Rich. Wiggins is a much better and more consistent scorer.
Lineup would be: Luka, Wiggins, DFS, Maxi, Wiseman, with a resigned THJ + Brunson as your key reserves + the player that's drafted with Minney's pick.
So at least with this lineup you have lots of shooting (Wiggins, THJ, Maxi, Brunson all being 40% shooters amazingly enough).
For that Minney pick you would want a playmaking guard ideally that rounds out your top 8 rotation. Wiseman is still a "prospect" but I think Luka would maximize his usefulness by using him a lot in PnR.
In terms of salary the only big long-term salary outside of Luka would be THJ at probably 18 mil a year (maybe declining year over year). I personally think this would be a good team altho I would look at other team trade options as well.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 05:22 PM)Kammrath Wrote: It feels to me like his whole style of play right now is one of "injury risk avoidance."
I think that's exactly what this is. In which case its a problem to only be able to use like 70% KP during the regular season.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Jason Terry - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 05:12 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Ya I guess I would have to see what the trade ideas are. For some people on this board they think KP stinks so one man's 75 cents on the dollar is someone else's 200 cents and visa versa.One dollar= two protected late 1st rd picks and a young player that’s already been test driven. Minus a bad contract
I’d say Wiseman plus Minny pick with Wiggins attached is probably even value
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - cow - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 05:34 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: One dollar= two protected late 1st rd picks and a young player that’s already been test driven. Minus a bad contract
I’d say Wiseman plus Minny pick with Wiggins attached is probably even value
Wiseman is a huge question mark in my mind. I just don't think Wiggins is a winning basketball player either. I'm not sure I'd do the deal. At the very least they need to eat Powell.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - DaRiv - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 04:05 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I think most uf is acknowledged that Luka had a terrible game but we still have to figure out why the team was blown out with KP on the floor. The Mavs offense was really bad all game long but without KP the Mavs could at least stop the Rockets.
Mavs enter the 4th quarter down 11. When KP comes back they are down 4. Only allowed 9pts in more than 5 minutes. In the remaining 6:52 the Rockets score 18pts. KP isn´t touching the ball on offense (that´s also on Luka, Brunson and RC) and continues to be a liablity on defense (that´s the main reason why RC tends to bench him).
KP once again finishes a game with the worst +/-.
The Rockets started the 4th with most of their bench on the floor. Sure, we made a run then. When KP came in, so did 4 of the Rockets starters.
KP’s +/- is very easy to explain. When Luka refuses to pass to you, you don’t get much of a +. And when Luka doesn’t move the ball and takes terrible shots that don’t go in, you are stuck with his -. And when John Wall gets past his guy and targets KP with space to the rim, that’s more of a -.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 05:49 PM)cow Wrote: Wiseman is a huge question mark in my mind. I just don't think Wiggins is a winning basketball player either. I'm not sure I'd do the deal. At the very least they need to eat Powell.
The thing that makes this even harder to evaluate is the centerpiece of the trade is a player to be named later. That is the fourth or fifth player in the draft. If that guy is a star in the making then that's a good trade. I don't know enough about the draft to know who is projected to go there and whether or not they are worth KP.
Further it could be that Mavs aren't interested in any of these pieces and include a third team.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - cow - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 06:04 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: The thing that makes this even harder to evaluate is the centerpiece of the trade is a player to be named later. That is the fourth or fifth player in the draft. If that guy is a star in the making then that's a good trade. I don't know enough about the draft to know who is projected to go there and whether or not they are worth KP.
Further it could be that Mavs aren't interested in any of these pieces and include a third team.
We aren't so great at drafting either.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - DrMav - 04-08-2021
IF, and it is still an if, the Mavs decide to move on from KP I just hope the stars align and we can trade him for Beal.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - cow - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 06:12 PM)DrMav Wrote: IF, and it is still an if, the Mavs decide to move on from KP I just hope the stars align and we can trade him for Beal.
I'm not sure Washington would be interested in KP. Even if they were, you'd probably be looking at KP + Brunson + a FRP or two.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 04-08-2021
I still wouldn't mind a deal centered around Collins for KP.