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RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - loki - 02-15-2021
All this KP trade talk has made me wish the Mavs were more careful with his contract. It's going to be a hard pill for any other team to swallow. Was there really a need to max him? They could have at least included some incentives for things like games played, making an all-star team, etc.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - StepBackJay - 02-15-2021
(02-15-2021, 07:24 PM)loki Wrote: All this KP trade talk has made me wish the Mavs were more careful with his contract. It's going to be a hard pill for any other team to swallow. Was there really a need to max him? They could have at least included some incentives for things like games played, making an all-star team, etc.
He would have gotten a max RFA contract no matter what. There is no scenario where he takes a weaker contract when he didn't have to. Plenty of teams would have given him an RFA max with no hesitation.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - loki - 02-15-2021
(02-15-2021, 07:30 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: He would have gotten a max RFA contract no matter what. There is no scenario where he takes a weaker contract when he didn't have to. Plenty of teams would have given him an RFA max with no hesitation.
I'm not quite convinced that's true given the ACL injury and the expectation that Dallas would match. But at least force someone to make the offer first.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - StepBackJay - 02-15-2021
(02-15-2021, 07:46 PM)loki Wrote: I'm not quite convinced that's true given the ACL injury and the expectation that Dallas would match. But at least force someone to make the offer first.
That's just not the reality of the situation. There are guys that are max RFA's and he was clearly that guy. Rising star, still young, been to an all-star game. He was going to get an RFA max no matter what. It was poor negotiating on MBT's part not to put a bunch of gotchas in there that KP would have just balked at anyways. When you trade for a guy like that you index to offer him a max no strings attached.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - loki - 02-15-2021
(02-15-2021, 07:52 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: That's just not the reality of the situation. There are guys that are max RFA's and he was clearly that guy. Rising star, still young, been to an all-star game. He was going to get an RFA max no matter what. It was poor negotiating on MBT's part not to put a bunch of gotchas in there that KP would have just balked at anyways. When you trade for a guy like that you index to offer him a max no strings attached.
He was clearly that guy to the MBT, but the rest of the league didn't even bother to beat the Mavs pathetic offer to the Knicks.
I hear what you're saying, I just hate the mindset that nothing else could have been done. No strings attached contracts like this are what consistently screw teams over and they keep handing them out without learning any lessons. If they're afraid of pissing a player off by negotiating, then piss the guy off and let the tens of millions of dollars make him feel better.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - dirkfansince1998 - 02-15-2021
(02-15-2021, 08:07 PM)loki Wrote: He was clearly that guy to the MBT, but the rest of the league didn't even bother to beat the Mavs pathetic offer to the Knicks.
I hear what you're saying, I just hate the mindset that nothing else could have been done. No strings attached contracts like this are what consistently screw teams over and they keep handing them out without learning any lessons. If they're afraid of pissing a player off by negotiating, then piss the guy off and let the tens of millions of dollars make him feel better.
According to the rumors the rest of the league was suprised that KP was available and the media was going crazy because the Knicks gifted away their franchise player.
We can all agree that right now KP is not worth his contract but we don´t need to rewrite the history of his trade and the following free agency.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - Scott41theMavs - 02-15-2021
(02-15-2021, 08:21 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: According to the rumors the rest of the league was suprised that KP was available and the media was going crazy because the Knicks gifted away their franchise player.
We can all agree that right now KP is not worth his contract but we don´t need to rewrite the history of his trade and the following free agency.
Precisely what I was going to say.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - Scott41theMavs - 02-15-2021
(02-15-2021, 02:43 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: This is my thing. I would trade him if someone saw value in him. I just can't see why others would see value in him til he's healthy for an extended period of time. Like I said, if he gets another big injury before the end of this season, IMO he's probably done as a player, and definitely done as a trade asset.
It only takes one team who sees value in him before the trade deadline. If that team is willing to give us value for KP, then we could make it a three-team trade involving a team who has the players we really want to obtain for him. We get the players we want, the second team gets KP, and the third team gets the value that the second team sent out.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - Dahlsim - 02-16-2021
(02-15-2021, 10:02 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: It only takes one team who sees value in him before the trade deadline. If that team is willing to give us value for KP, then we could make it a three-team trade involving a team who has the players we really want to obtain for him. We get the players we want, the second team gets KP, and the third team gets the value that the second team sent out.
Its also a question of usage and if another team/coach believes they could make better use of KP.
Last season for example Tobias Harris was being called a terrible contract. That's because he was paid based on projections of how he played in LA under Doc Rivers but on a new team and roster under a different coach, different role he didn't look like the same player.
Now, under Doc again the same player, with only a slightly different roster is in All star consideration.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - burekemde - 02-19-2021
It's a good strategy, to build your franchise long-term with stars that are not fully dependent on athleticism. And that are not injure prone. You need that stability and stay in the top regularly, to contend well, and build team morale of a winning team. Or if you get a player that relies on athleticism, you better be sure he is not injure prone.
With Luka, Dirk, you could almost chop of one of their arms, and they would still produce well. Luka is maybe complaining to the refs more than most people like, but make no mistake, he is as tough as anyone you will find these days, and durable considering his usage rate and how much he is hit, few others could take that load or even close to that and not break down with injuries.
KP? He is fully dependent on being 100%. If he is just a bit below that, he cant block anyone, and comes too late for everything. I am in no doubt he will reach that 100% for few stretches every season, and dominate, and he did last season as well, and I expect later this season as well, but my fear is for most of the time, most of the seasons in future, he will not be consistently dominant.
Id trade him when he is 100% for a durable young player not fully relying on athletic ability mostly.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - KillerLeft - 02-19-2021
(02-19-2021, 02:46 PM)burekemde Wrote: KP? He is fully dependent on being 100%. If he is just a bit below that, he cant block anyone, and comes too late for everything. I am in no doubt he will reach that 100% for few stretches every season, and dominate, and he did last season as well, and I expect later this season as well, but my fear is for most of the time, most of the seasons in future, he will not be consistently dominant.
Plus, at his size and with his injury history, I believe even his peak, 100% physical status will diminish faster than that of other players. I think there’s a fair chance we are already witnessing this.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - Thukydides - 02-19-2021
Give me Smart and R.Williams and a future unprotected 1st and a 2nd for KP all day. I don´t think anyone could argue, we wouldn´t be a better team afterwards.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - StepBackJay - 02-21-2021
KP defensively has not been good. You have to hope its due to injury, Covid, all that stuff and that he will improve. I also think the Maxi/KP frontcourt isn't working out as we had hoped especially with Maxi not playing as well this season.
It's unlikely to me that the Mavs would trade KP any time soon. Maybe what we will start to see is a more desperate attempt to find him a better frontcourt partner. I wouldn't mind seeing WCS some in there just to see what it looks like. I remember one game they were like double blocking shots which was fun. There are trades out there to be made. I don't know which one is the right one but I could see a scenario where the KP as full-time 5 experiment is ended and he goes back to guarding 4s and providing help defense. To me this year he looks better guarding out on the perimeter than he does inside.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - StepBackJay - 02-21-2021
(02-19-2021, 03:01 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Plus, at his size and with his injury history, I believe even his peak, 100% physical status will diminish faster than that of other players. I think there’s a fair chance we are already witnessing this.
My worry is that the Mavs are going to wait too long to come to the realization KP isn't working and by the time that happens his value is going to be basically dump territory or take what you can get.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - ItsGoTime - 02-21-2021
Honestly, the KP trade gave lots of hype to this team, I wonder if KP is possibly a Powell type can't let go of player for this FO. To the point that it very well may be a decision for them to keep KP or RC. I can see that scenario being talked about in Donnie's office with Cuban in the next year or two, IF things don't make a turn for the better.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - bin610 - 02-21-2021
(02-21-2021, 01:42 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Honestly, the KP trade gave lots of hype to this team, I wonder if KP is possibly a Powell type can't let go of player for this FO. To the point that it very well may be a decision for them to keep KP or RC. I can see that scenario being talked about in Donnie's office with Cuban in the next year or two, IF things don't make a turn for the better.
I can definitely see that happening which would be unfortunate because I would rather keep Rick. KP needs to put more effort into his rebounding and defense immediately.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - ItsGoTime - 02-21-2021
(02-21-2021, 01:47 PM)bin610 Wrote: I can definitely see that happening which would be unfortunate because I would rather keep Rick. KP needs to put more effort into his rebounding and defense immediately.I just wonder if the FO thinks that way. As far as who I'd rather keep? Depends on if KP stays healthy and improves like he should. I do see KP as needing more of a players coach like Doc Rivers. The idea that KP has it in his head that he had to talk to Rick about what he needs to succeed on the court and RC didn't do that makes me think a bit about who RC is as a coach. I like RC too, I think he's a great coach for a certain type of player. I wonder if we've been worried about that certain type of player when we're looking for acquisitions in the FO after reading RC's comments about the "gunslinging" FO.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - Tyler - 02-21-2021
(02-21-2021, 01:58 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: The idea that KP has it in his head that he had to talk to Rick about what he needs to succeed on the court and RC didn't do that makes me think a bit about who RC is as a coach.
What are you talking about?
Carlisle has talked many times about how it's his responsibility to put KP in a position to succeed. And the most recent example of KP sharing an idea with Carlisle -- who immediately made a change to the substitution pattern to support his player -- is a clear example of effective communication. That's a good thing.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - StepBackJay - 02-21-2021
KP has been very open to the media about what he needs as a player. If he starts doing some back-channeling talk via agent leaks to the media that's what could accelerate a trade situation. His offensive numbers are actually better than last year even though watching him play it doesn't seem that way.
His rebounding and defense are the major problem areas. I do wonder if Rick can try to remediate the situation by trying different guys next to KP.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis - Kammrath - 02-21-2021
(02-21-2021, 02:37 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: His offensive numbers are actually better than last year even though watching him play it doesn't seem that way.
You are right, his individual numbers are better and look quite good.....
....the problem is that his team impact has been AWFUL.
His on/off this year is -6.4 (-10.8 defensively) and last year he was +3.4 (+1.1 defensively).
The team is getting murdered when he plays, especially defensively. So his individual numnbers are good, but team success has been almost non-existent when he plays.