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RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Kammrath - 07-20-2021
At the very end of this interview with Chad Ford, Chad talks about how he has been trying and trying to get an understanding of what KP's trade value is around the league....and he can't. He wanted to write an article with some trade ideas but didn't include KP because he cannot get a real sense of his value right now. So even guys with strong connections in the league have no idea what KP is worth right now. In part because no one has a sense of whether it was coach, fit, COVID, attitude, injury or what that caused KP to play like he did this year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_WLx5RL-sc
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - KillerLeft - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 11:54 AM)Kammrath Wrote: At the very end of this interview with Chad Ford, Chad talks about how he has been trying and trying to get an understanding of what KP's trade value is around the league....and he can't. He wanted to write an article with some trade ideas but didn't include KP because he cannot get a real sense of his value right now. So even guys with strong connections in the league have no idea what KP is worth right now. In part because no one has a sense of whether it was coach, fit, COVID, attitude, injury or what that caused KP to play like he did this year.
This should make us feel a bit better about our inability to reach a consensus as a community, I suppose.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Kammrath - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 11:56 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: This should make us feel a bit better about our inability to reach a consensus as a community, I suppose.
It's pretty wild. I don't remember another case like this where some think he should get an almost superstar return and others think he is basically a dump that you might have to pay to get rid of. It's crazy.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ItsGoTime - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 11:58 AM)Kammrath Wrote: It's pretty wild. I don't remember another case like this where some think he should get an almost superstar return and others think he is basically a dump that you might have to pay to get rid of. It's crazy.I think I’m at the top end of his value and I don’t think he’s worth superstar value. I think he’s worth what Vucevic got in trade and Vuc is not a superstar.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - KillerLeft - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 12:14 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I think he’s worth what Vucevic got in trade and Vuc is not a superstar.
Yeah, this is about the top of the range that my mind doesn't instantly reject, too.
The thing is: judging by Chicago not making the playoffs after making that trade, I don't think Vucevic was "worth what Vucevic got in trade."
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Scott41theMavs - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 12:14 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I think I’m at the top end of his value and I don’t think he’s worth superstar value. I think he’s worth what Vucevic got in trade and Vuc is not a superstar.
I would say that SH and Bama would arguably be above you in the value they expect, since they seem to see every proposed KP trade as a pupu platter. Realism isn't underselling him.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ItsGoTime - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 12:20 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: I would say that SH and Bama would arguably be above you in the value they expect, since they seem to see every proposed KP trade as a pupu platter. Realism isn't underselling him.I will say to that, I think MC is with them in that thinking. That is the one thought that really matters. I think it’ll take a healthy, ok playing, KP up to the TDL (at the earliest) for MC to come slightly down to that line of thinking.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Kammrath - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 12:14 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I think I’m at the top end of his value and I don’t think he’s worth superstar value. I think he’s worth what Vucevic got in trade and Vuc is not a superstar.
That's what I was trying to get at by saying "almost superstar." I think the Vucevic return is a BIG return.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ItsGoTime - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 12:16 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Yeah, this is about the top of the range that my mind doesn't instantly reject, too.Sure, and that may be with KP too, but if MC is requiring superstar return and Nico comes to him with a Vuc return with well fitting parts, I think there is a chance MC ok’s it.
The thing is: judging by Chicago not making the playoffs after making that trade, I don't think Vucevic was "worth what Vucevic got in trade."
MC was in on the original KP trade, so it’s not gonna be as simple as “no skin off Nico’s back” as far as the return.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Kammrath - 07-20-2021
I wonder what Voulgaris thinks KP's trade value should be.....
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ItsGoTime - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 12:32 PM)Kammrath Wrote: That's what I was trying to get at by saying "almost superstar." I think the Vucevic return is a BIG return.That is far from what most posts I’ve been seeing for KP lately though. Those thoughts have also been creeping up on this board lately too.
(07-20-2021, 12:34 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I wonder what Voulgaris thinks KP's trade value should be.....LoL. I doubt he was much a part of the original KP trade, so MC will ignore his thoughts on it! VP2.0 on the other hand has the goods on this!!!
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - KillerLeft - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 12:28 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I will say to that, I think MC is with them in that thinking. That is the one thought that really matters. I think it’ll take a healthy, ok playing, KP up to the TDL (at the earliest) for MC to come slightly down to my line of thinking.
Tough to judge what the Mavs brain trust, as a whole, thinks about this, actually. It's possible that they're as conflicted about it as we are here.
But, my speculation about it hinges on this: I'm pretty confident that KP was a Donnie-driven acquisition. He's exactly the type of player Donnie has always coveted. Donnie is the guy who wanted to draft Pavel Podkolzin at #5 instead of Devin Harris. Thankfully, his father's experienced voice won out there, or we'd have another terrible draft choice to list among the scad of others.
I'm also confident that a guy like Voulgaris looks at the season KP just had and probably has a pretty low level of hope that he can live up to a max contract on a good team.
Cuban is clueless about such things, imo, and always has been.
What we DO NOT have any info on, even to speculate with, is which way Harrison/Kidd are going to lean here, or whether their opinions will even have a ton of weight in THIS high-stakes of a situation THIS early on in the relationship. Will Dallas be more analytics driven or less? I'd guess that Donnie was not very into math, but Carlisle seems to have had a healthy respect for that stuff. If one or both fall into the "can't teach 7'4"" category, blind to all else, then I think KP is here another year, for sure.
Then again, moving a guy with that kind of name and contract is so hard to do that whether or not he's traded won't definitively tell us much. One of the things I've consistently read over the past few years is that the newest generation of GM's seems less than brave enough to pull the trigger on deals like this. The idea being that you can't lose big trades (and get fired in the process) if you don't make them.
...so who knows, tbh.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - cow - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 11:42 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: https://twitter.com/iztok_franko/status/1417525062803107855?s=20
https://twitter.com/iztok_franko/status/1417523079341875206?s=20
https://twitter.com/iztok_franko/status/1417524382944178180?s=20
Less efficient when he tried to do more should make us all a little more than uneasy.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ItsGoTime - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 12:44 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Cuban is clueless about such things, imo, and always has been.Do you think HE thinks that though? I very seriously doubt it.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ItsGoTime - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 12:47 PM)cow Wrote: Less efficient when he tried to do more should make us all a little more than uneasy.Unless he uses this offseason to develop a go-to move(s). Then Kidd, Luka and KP get together in training camp and develop a few go-to plays together.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - michaeltex - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 11:54 AM)Kammrath Wrote: At the very end of this interview with Chad Ford, Chad talks about how he has been trying and trying to get an understanding of what KP's trade value is around the league....and he can't. He wanted to write an article with some trade ideas but didn't include KP because he cannot get a real sense of his value right now. So even guys with strong connections in the league have no idea what KP is worth right now. In part because no one has a sense of whether it was coach, fit, COVID, attitude, injury or what that caused KP to play like he did this year.I guess it's like selling a classic car. There is no Blue Book to assess the value, it's more about what some sucker, err...astute businessman, is willing to pay.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - cow - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 12:51 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Unless he uses this offseason to develop a go-to move(s). Then Kidd, Luka and KP get together in training camp and develop a few go-to plays together.
I think KP will be in the lab this offseason but I have to wonder what changed in New York until this past season. I still think we need to move him as he doesn't seem to complement Luka and the offense he orchestrates. Maybe Kidd helps out there.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - KillerLeft - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 12:51 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Unless he uses this offseason to develop a go-to move(s). Then Kidd, Luka and KP get together in training camp and develop a few go-to plays together.
Sounds good, and I think this is how he should be thinking, but I think it takes YEARS to do this, not one summer. If it was so easy, everyone would have "go-to-move(s)."
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ItsGoTime - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 01:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Sounds good, and I think this is how he should be thinking, but I think it takes YEARS to do this, not one summer. If it was so easy, everyone would have "go-to-move(s)."Not everyone has the talent that KP has either. He also has the benefit of many years in the league to reflect on as well as plenty of media and fan vitriol to fuel him. That, to me, makes this situation different from “everyone”.
Also, the highly talented players do add things to their game. In 2011-12 all the talent in the league was working on their one legged fade aways.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - KillerLeft - 07-20-2021
(07-20-2021, 01:10 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Also, the highly talented players do add things to their game. In 2011-12 all the talent in the league was working on their one legged fade aways.
Ok, sure.
Are the highly talented players who add things to their games usually starting from scratch, though? Because when it comes to creating his own shot, that's pretty much where KP is, imo.
And once again, we're engaged in a conversation about the wrong end of the floor. It's crazy how that always happens with this player. I'm not accusing you of anything here, because I keep getting sucked into that thinking, too. Something about his name-status and max-contract? Pre-conceived expectations? I'm not sure, honestly, but the reality is that if you take the contract away what he gave the team offensively, even last season, is good enough. Valuable, even (just not max-valuable). It's DEFENSE that ruins everything.