(07-05-2021, 11:49 AM)Hogmelon Wrote: Imagine if KP did nothing this summer but miraculously mutate into a great (or good, or above average) DEFENSIVE player.

(07-05-2021, 11:55 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: Wasn't there some data that suggested Luka and KP were deadly running that play?...

(07-05-2021, 05:46 PM)JREwing Wrote: Skin is right ( I think) that we won't get good value for KP now, so it's best to hang on to him a little longer and see how he does next year.

(07-05-2021, 09:13 PM)Kammrath Wrote: RE: Trading KP

I would honestly ask Luka. He knows.

I would ask him, "Is KP a guy you are ready to roll into battle with? Is he capable of helping you to that next level?"

If Luka wants to give it one more season I am ALL IN. If Luka has seen enough, I trade him now regardless of the return.

(07-06-2021, 03:22 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: I would make that question to Kidd and Nico.

(07-06-2021, 07:54 AM)Kammrath Wrote: Then there should be zero trading of KP if that is what you want. Kidd and Nico don't know. They haven't been in a work environment with KP. They haven't walked alongside him psychologically through the rigors of the season. If you want Kidd and Nico to truly make the decision themselves (and do it in an informed way) then you have to NOT trade KP. 

(07-06-2021, 03:22 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: The last thing I want is making Luka an assistant GM. That is a recipe for disaster
Especially after years of hearing Cuban saying players make lousy GM. 
I would make that question to Kidd and Nico.

(07-05-2021, 11:58 AM)Kammrath Wrote: I think KP needs more "coddling".

(07-06-2021, 08:01 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: This assumes that you're correct about his problems being psychological. 

I do not think they are, or at least I don't think that's anywhere near the main concern. I think 90% of the problems with KP were physical, and I believe anyone who watched him play here last year likely came to their Mavs interview absolutely loaded with opinions about what to do about him. 

(07-06-2021, 08:31 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: That may be true, but I wonder how that will sit with Luka. We have already received indications that Luka is not amused by KP's acting out. 


Not sure exactly what you mean. The team should overlook misbehavior off the court? On the court? Pay more attention to letting him play the way he wants? Hang out with him at the strip clubs? Something else?

I hope these questions do not come across as snarky. I am sincerely interested in your (and anyone else's) thoughts on the matter.

(07-06-2021, 08:40 AM)Kammrath Wrote: Well since you are speaking frankly, so will I.

Based on what I have read and heard (so these are FAN assumptions and dot connecting from me), it sounds to me like RC is a narcissist and had created an ambient abusive environment within the lockerroom and even front office. I have lived in those kind of environments and they are horrible. You are constantly on edge, ready for the next round of gaslighting, blame-shifting, etc. I'll leave it at that for now.

IF this is true (and again I am piecing things together from afar), then that environment could be completely debilitating to someone who is an empath and inclined to much more sensitivity to the people around them. If KP is that kind of person (as I suspect), then RC would be horrible to work with and for. ALSO, I suspect that KP has a fragile ego that needs someone to truly be more gentle in navigating him (hence my use of "coddling")....not in the sense of not holding him accountable, but holding him accountable in a firm, yet gentle and empathic way. Not like an asshole. In retrospect I regret using "coddle" because I think that ended up being unhelpful. I think KP needs kinder and more empathic souls around him, who can hold him accountable. He needs to be treated like a man, but it needs to be in an environment that is frankly more loving and less abusive.

(07-06-2021, 08:50 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Thing is that he had the same or even worse problems in NY. Even asked to be traded. I don´t think the environment you are asking for exists in a success driven league like the NBA. And the NBA is already more player friendly/centric than most leagues outside of the US.

(07-06-2021, 08:40 AM)Kammrath Wrote: Well since you are speaking frankly, so will I.

Based on what I have read and heard (so these are FAN assumptions and dot connecting from me), it sounds to me like RC is a narcissist and had created an ambient abusive environment within the lockerroom and even front office. I have lived in those kind of environments and they are horrible. You are constantly on edge, ready for the next round of gaslighting, blame-shifting, etc. I'll leave it at that for now.

IF this is true (and again I am piecing things together from afar), then that environment could be completely debilitating to someone who is an empath and inclined to much more sensitivity to the people around them. If KP is that kind of person (as I suspect), then RC would be horrible to work with and for. ALSO, I suspect that KP has a fragile ego that needs someone to truly be more gentle in navigating him (hence my use of "coddling")....not in the sense of not holding him accountable, but holding him accountable in a firm, yet gentle and empathic way. Not like an asshole. In retrospect I regret using "coddle" because I think that ended up being unhelpful. I think KP needs kinder and more empathic souls around him, who can hold him accountable. He needs to be treated like a man, but it needs to be in an environment that is frankly more loving and less abusive.

(07-06-2021, 09:34 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: It sounds to me like you think it may be likely that KP withered under Carlisle's regime, and he would respond much better to a "player's coach," who relies mostly on positive reinforcement, rather than another disciplinarian. 

Since we're speaking frankly today, I have to say that there have been a lot of things about KP's attitude that haven't sat too well with me. Going to the strip club during the playoffs, even though it was off limits, and risking a suspension. Being unavailable for a game during last season's playoffs, because he didn't get his test done on time. The off-court incidents. Repeatedly checking out during games. Airing his grievances in the media. Always dissatisfied about something, and seemingly more focused on himself than the team. 

Maybe Carlisle was running a horror show in the locker room, but we didn't see that kind of attitude issue with the other players, for the most part. Given that KP also had these kinds of issues in NY, I suspect the problem at least partly lies with him. 

By all accounts, J Kidd has learned to relate well with players, and may provide a boost to KP's morale. I hope so. But there are some people who constantly think the world is doing them wrong, and act out their dissatisfaction with passive-aggressive behavior.

We are obviously doing quite a bit of armchair psychologizing based on incomplete information, but someone at the Mavs is bound to have a handle on what the situation really is. If they decide to roll with KP for now, I can understand that. It was thrilling to think, when the trade happened, that KP could be that unstoppable offensive player while also serving as a first-class rim protector, and they may not be ready to give up on that dream. 

I will cheer for him if he is still here, of course, but I have come to think that his physical decline, injury history, extreme tallness, and troubling attitude would take a lot of the sting out of losing him, especially if they can get some kind of reasonable return. It would be an admission of failure by the front office, but the shakeup in that department would make that decision easier, I'm guessing. 

I hope Kidd makes all the difference, as you suggest he might. It's not as easy to be loved as a head coach as it is as an assistant. Holding people accountable, even if done fairly and gently, doesn't always leave the person in a positive frame of mind.

(07-05-2021, 09:13 PM)Kammrath Wrote: RE: Trading KP

I would honestly ask Luka. He knows.

I would ask him, "Is KP a guy you are ready to roll into battle with? Is he capable of helping you to that next level?"

If Luka wants to give it one more season I am ALL IN. If Luka has seen enough, I trade him now regardless of the return.

(07-06-2021, 09:45 AM)Radical Mavs Wrote: Like this?