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RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-19-2021
(06-18-2021, 10:14 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Bertans makes a lot of sense if you get RH in free agency.
I like RH in any scenario if you can get him. Raptors will be a threat. Hornets might trade for a center so not sure whether or not they are in the running.
If you did get Bertans you don't even necessarily have to start him. He'd get a lot of minutes at the 4 but I don't think he's a guy you have to start.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 01:34 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: The problem with all these mocked trades from other teams is that they're looking to snag KP for nothing. They think for whatever reason the Mavs would rather take air than retain KP, which I don't believe is the Mavs mindset at all. This basically nullifies any of these "KP for 2 mediocre role players and a pick" trades that are totally one-sided.
Going to wait and see who is the new GM because anyone but Luka is available now, though I do think it's extremely likely the Mavs hope KP has a resurgence year and just retains him.
Ya we don't know what the new GM will think. I feel like the fate of the franchise hinges on them making the right decision with KP. Should they give him a little more time to at least recoup some value? If he returns to 2019 KP then he has quite a bit of value. If he comes back and looks the same as he did this year its a problem because teams will lose faith that he will ever return to form. So its a gamble. I could see him not even being tradable until teams see what he looks like to begin next season.
If you remember Oladipo wasn't tradable until he came back and looked great. Pacers cashed in and Dipo ended up getting hurt much later on. At this point his career is very much in doubt but no team is on the hook for big money. The danger with KP is that huge contract.
I have been reading a lot of these blogs/fan sites and comments and while there is some pro-KP sentiment it is outweighed pretty heavily by negative reaction. I was reading a lot of the comments on a Wiz/KP blog and I was surprised how plugged in many of the commentors were to KP's exact situation. Certainly his play against the Clippers really tanked his value.
Now fans are not GMs I just think its interesting in terms of seeing how other fan bases view players just to stick your finger in the wind. I have been shocked to see how little love there is for KP. out there.
This takes me back to my original point which is there is so much riding on this KP decision, assuming there are a couple teams willing to offer you "dump" packages. Should you cut your losses or hold on a bit longer? That is the 100 million dollar question.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 08:11 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2093489
Just hope that other team front offices don't share same opinion about KP contract (he is currently 2nd in a poll about worst contract in the NBA)
Wow Klay is on the list, sign me up for that trade (tho its not going to happen).
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-19-2021
(06-18-2021, 09:18 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Best potential KP partners:
- GSW: Wiggins-based. GSW may not see enough of an upgrade for the risk of KP but you never know.
- Wiz: Bertans, young guys, probably third team involved. Wiz are desperate enough to make a big move and the pieces they are giving up aren't that great.
- Hornets: Hayward-based, similar situation in Charlotte and they have a surplus of wings, guards but no center.
- Pels: Adams/Bledsoe. Pels need spacing and I think would like the upside of KP. Adams/Bledsoe are basically dumps. Adams fits Dallas much better. Dallas also gets their cap sheet in order given the much easier-to-move contracts. Pels have a surplus of picks. They could easily dump KP next year if it didn't work out.
That's ab it. I don't see an OKC deal. I think Horford would have been the target there, but Celtics already made that deal.
So the other fantasy trade I forgot to put on here that I have been thinking about is one that involves Kevin Love and Collin Sexton. Sexton could be your young second star besides Luka. Love is just 1 year away from being expiring and I think its possible we see him all of a sudden play more like a player who cares about basketball if/when he gets traded or bought out (see Blake Griffin who unsurprisingly is playing well).
Sexton is a good player that doesn't really fit into Cleveland's long-term plans. The package would be Love/Sexton for KP + other pieces. Love/KP are swapping contract dumps though KP has way more upside but only one more year on his deal.
Brunson would make some sense but then I don't know that Cleveland would have confidence they. could keep him as a UFA. You might need to sell off Maxi, Brunson elsewhere to have enough assets to pull this off.
Bottom line is you would have your (hopefully?) long-term front court mate but there's risk there. It's unclear if Sexton and Luka would work together but its one avenue towards getting a young guy with star upside.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - DanSchwartzgan - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 01:34 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: The problem with all these mocked trades from other teams is that they're looking to snag KP for nothing. They think for whatever reason the Mavs would rather take air than retain KP, which I don't believe is the Mavs mindset at all. This basically nullifies any of these "KP for 2 mediocre role players and a pick" trades that are totally one-sided.
Going to wait and see who is the new GM because anyone but Luka is available now, though I do think it's extremely likely the Mavs hope KP has a resurgence year and just retains him.
One of the things I've been playing around with is figuring out the value of "air". What I mean is there is an asset value that you'd want in return for KP. I think we've identified a bunch of reasonable scenarios, so assume we get something useful but not great. Something that isn't often considered is the additional space we can generate if KP is trade matched (up to $6.4mm) or dealt at least partially to a cap room team (like Charlotte).
If you assume JRich opts in and you trade KP for a package totaling the minimum $25.3 that you'd have to take back, you have $30mm to work with. Maybe that is one max guy. Maybe it is splitting the room between THJ and someone. Let's optimistically pencil THJ in at $14mm. That extra $6.4mm is the difference between someone making $16mm and someone making $10mm. I realize it might be difficult to find a team that wants KP AND has exactly the right amount of dollars attached to guys we might want. But, there are ways to play with the numbers by adding bodies like Burke and JRich to the equation.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - dirkfansince1998 - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 09:46 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: One of the things I've been playing around with is figuring out the value of "air". What I mean is there is an asset value that you'd want in return for KP. I think we've identified a bunch of reasonable scenarios, so assume we get something useful but not great. Something that isn't often considered is the additional space we can generate if KP is trade matched (up to $6.4mm) or dealt at least partially to a cap room team (like Charlotte).
If you assume JRich opts in and you trade KP for a package totaling the minimum $25.3 that you'd have to take back, you have $30mm to work with. Maybe that is one max guy. Maybe it is splitting the room between THJ and someone. Let's optimistically pencil THJ in at $14mm. That extra $6.4mm is the difference between someone making $16mm and someone making $10mm. I realize it might be difficult to find a team that wants KP AND has exactly the right amount of dollars attached to guys we might want. But, there are ways to play with the numbers by adding bodies like Burke and JRich to the equation.
Great point. A lot of options. From matching salaries to an outright salary dump and everything in between. Intriguing possibilities for a new GM with the freedom (assuming Cuban allows it) to make some bigger changes. Could potentially create a lot of capspace and rebuild the roster around Luka.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-19-2021
Updating my list potential KP partners:
1. Wiz: Bertans, Bryant, Gafford (*edit)
2. Orlando: Harris, Ross
3. Pels: Adams/Bledsoe
4. GSW: Wiggins
5. Hornets: Hayward
6. Cleveland: Love, Allen (Mavs would need to add more assets)
I put them in the rough order of likelihood in my eyes. The first 3 are pretty much straight dumps but you get rotation players and clean up your cap with those moves which is important.
I am not sure why Orlando would need so many bigs (WCJ, Bamba, KP, Isaac). I put them on the list because they are more likely than others to take gambles, especially if they are only giving up future cap space basically (altho Ross is a small asset).
I picture them in a similar position to the Mavs a few years ago when they were open to taking on money for a guy with star upside. I could see Orlando having a similar mindset.
Checking in with @"KillerLeft" who has been on the dump KP bandwagon for a while. Would you trade KP even if its one of these dump-style trades?
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Scott41theMavs - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 01:30 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Updating my list potential KP partners:
1. Wiz: Bertans, Bryant
2. Orlando: Harris, Ross
3. Pels: Adams/Bledsoe
4. GSW: Wiggins
5. Hornets: Hayward
6. Cleveland: Love, Allen (Mavs would need to add more assets)
I put them in the rough order of likelihood in my eyes. The first 3 are pretty much straight dumps but you get rotation players and clean up your cap with those moves which is important.
I am not sure why Orlando would need so many bigs (WCJ, Bamba, KP, Isaac). I put them on the list because they are more likely than others to take gambles, especially if they are only giving up future cap space basically (altho Ross is a small asset).
I picture them in a similar position to the Mavs a few years ago when they were open to taking on money for a guy with star upside. I could see Orlando having a similar mindset.
Checking in with @"KillerLeft" who has been on the dump KP bandwagon for a while. Would you trade KP even if its one of these dump-style trades?
The only one of those that is a positive return in my eyes is Adams/Bledsoe, although given what we saw last night with Gobert, I'm nervous about any traditional center. Holmes (who is a great perimeter switcher) is probably the closest to an exception. Bam, but he's not available last time I checked.
I think trading KP into cap space would be better than any of the other moves presented. If that's how low his value is, you arguably *have* to hold on to him in the hopes that his value increases.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 09:46 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: One of the things I've been playing around with is figuring out the value of "air". What I mean is there is an asset value that you'd want in return for KP. I think we've identified a bunch of reasonable scenarios, so assume we get something useful but not great. Something that isn't often considered is the additional space we can generate if KP is trade matched (up to $6.4mm) or dealt at least partially to a cap room team (like Charlotte).
If you assume JRich opts in and you trade KP for a package totaling the minimum $25.3 that you'd have to take back, you have $30mm to work with. Maybe that is one max guy. Maybe it is splitting the room between THJ and someone. Let's optimistically pencil THJ in at $14mm. That extra $6.4mm is the difference between someone making $16mm and someone making $10mm. I realize it might be difficult to find a team that wants KP AND has exactly the right amount of dollars attached to guys we might want. But, there are ways to play with the numbers by adding bodies like Burke and JRich to the equation.
The Bertans package is one that fits your description which is why I think its one of the better ideas because you could take back less salary which is part of the "return" you are getting for KP.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - KillerLeft - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 01:30 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Checking in with @KillerLeft who has been on the dump KP bandwagon for a while. Would you trade KP even if its one of these dump-style trades?
I'm not even sure what I think, anymore.
Everything has changed, and none of us knows what this organization will look like in the coming months. I'm reasonably confident that KP's bad year wasn't a mirage, but there is a chance he looks at least a little better after a proper, healthy off-season. That, combined with all-new-everything in the front office could provide a sliver of hope for his future here, I suppose.
I guess the way I feel today is that I'd still be looking for advantageous ways of upgrading my situation by moving KP off of the roster, but I'm not currently likely to jump at any Wiggins style "give ups" just to have it over and done with.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 01:35 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: The only one of those that is a positive return in my eyes is Adams/Bledsoe, although given what we saw last night with Gobert, I'm nervous about any traditional center. Holmes (who is a great perimeter switcher) is probably the closest to an exception. Bam, but he's not available last time I checked.
I think trading KP into cap space would be better than any of the other moves presented. If that's how low his value is, you arguably *have* to hold on to him in the hopes that his value increases.
The problem is his value can get even lower. He is one injury away from being Kemba status or worse. I don't know how the next GM will view him but its a gamble if you keep him.
I am good with Adams/Bledsoe bc Adams should be easy enough to trade later if you need to. Also an important thing is Adams would be a rotational guy. You are not obligated to play him the last 6 minutes if you need to go small. When you are paying a guy 30 mil its like you are tethered to him even when it doesn't make sense to play him (see Gobert, Simmons). With Adams its not a problem at all if you sit him the last 6 minutes for someone else. In the meantime he's going go give you good minutes all year long.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 01:38 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I guess the way I feel today is that I'd still be looking for advantageous ways of upgrading my situation by moving KP off of the roster, but I'm not currently likely to jump at any Wiggins style "give ups" just to have it over and done with.
Wow so I am even more pro-dump than you are (and most folks on this board are) with respect to KP. I am all about dump packages at this point. He is a depreciating asset to me.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - dirkfansince1998 - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 01:42 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Wow so I am even more pro-dump than you are (and most folks on this board are) with respect to KP. I am all about dump packages at this point. He is a depreciating asset to me.
Right there with you. I just want to be done with all the drama.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - KillerLeft - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 01:42 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Wow so I am even more pro-dump than you are (and most folks on this board are) with respect to KP. I am all about dump packages at this point. He is a depreciating asset to me.
Oh, I don't disagree, it's just that I don't even feel like I have an understanding of any of the guys on your list would fit into the team yet. Know what I mean?
We have NO idea what the direction of this team will be from here. I'm reasonably confident Luka will still play PG, and that the new decision makers (if they actually make any decisions) won't try to turn him into a 4 or something, but other than that I feel lost at sea.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 01:47 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Oh, I don't disagree, it's just that I don't even feel like I have an understanding of any of the guys on your list would fit into the team yet. Know what I mean?
We have NO idea what the direction of this team will be from here. I'm reasonably confident Luka will still play PG, and that the new decision makers (if they actually make any decisions) won't try to turn him into a 4 or something, but other than that I feel lost at sea.
Ya I am not trying to predict what will happen bc who knows. I had hunches with the previous regime. Now all that's out the window. I was just curious of what you would do in the GM's seat. For me the risk/reward of keeping KP is out of balance too far in the risk area and he's a sunk cost so if I can dump him now I would do it.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - KillerLeft - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 01:30 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Updating my list potential KP partners:
1. Wiz: Bertans, Bryant, Gafford (*edit)
2. Orlando: Harris, Ross
3. Pels: Adams/Bledsoe
4. GSW: Wiggins
5. Hornets: Hayward
6. Cleveland: Love, Allen (Mavs would need to add more assets)
Ok, so two weeks ago I would've jumped on any of these. You even made Love a little easier to swallow by adding Allen.
Today, the only one I love is #5, but I doubt it's possible. Someone had the idea of turning KP/Hayward into a 3-way deal where the Mavs get someone else. That's worth thinking about, imo.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 02:08 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Ok, so two weeks ago I would've jumped on any of these. You even made Love a little easier to swallow by adding Allen.
Today, the only one I love is #5, but I doubt it's possible. Someone had the idea of turning KP/Hayward into a 3-way deal where the Mavs get someone else. That's worth thinking about, imo.
Lol I didn't do Allen that was somebody else editing my list. We aren't getting Allen from Cleveland.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Mavs2021 - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 01:30 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Updating my list potential KP partners:
1. Wiz: Bertans, Bryant, Gafford (*edit)
2. Orlando: Harris, Ross
3. Pels: Adams/Bledsoe
4. GSW: Wiggins
5. Hornets: Hayward
6. Cleveland: Love, Allen (Mavs would need to add more assets)
I put them in the rough order of likelihood in my eyes. The first 3 are pretty much straight dumps but you get rotation players and clean up your cap with those moves which is important.
I am not sure why Orlando would need so many bigs (WCJ, Bamba, KP, Isaac). I put them on the list because they are more likely than others to take gambles, especially if they are only giving up future cap space basically (altho Ross is a small asset).
I picture them in a similar position to the Mavs a few years ago when they were open to taking on money for a guy with star upside. I could see Orlando having a similar mindset.
Checking in with @"KillerLeft" who has been on the dump KP bandwagon for a while. Would you trade KP even if its one of these dump-style trades?
1. I´d like to have Bonga RFA S&T added on, but I would.
2. They´ll have to throw in one of their big man. Most likely it will be Bamba. If it means THJ doesn´t get extended, I´m willing to take Ross, too.
3. Probably the best immediate player value, but given that they have eight million additional 1sts from Lakers/Bucks, they can throw one of their choosing in the deal.
4. Do I have a clear path to a 2nd scoring option? I think he shines in GS, because there is no offensive pressure. He can be a highly functional "role player". If he´s supposed to be the #2 guy that dynamic changes again. Still a yes.
5. That´s a No for me. Nerve damage in his leg, always some sort of other injury, too.
6. Nah. I´d rather just offer Jarrett Allen the max alone and see whether the Cavs match. Love´s attitude is a real turn off. Only LeBron managed to make him a winning player and rein in his shitty attitude.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - KillerLeft - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 02:21 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Lol I didn't do Allen that was somebody else editing my list. We aren't getting Allen from Cleveland.
![[Image: Dix.gif]](https://i.gifer.com/Dix.gif)
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Scott41theMavs - 06-19-2021
To me, at this point, KP dump trades are about flexibility in rebuilding the roster. It's hard to build a roster when you have $30 mil a year sunk into a center who can't defend and isn't all that great shakes on the offensive end either - and then there's the ticking bomb of his health. If you can get even one rotational piece that is usable for the medium term, you're ahead of the game. If you take on some more bite-sized mini-albatross contracts that are easier to move, that also creates flexibility. In spite of the poo-pooing of some posters, I am big on going as close to trading him into space as possible. The new GM can identify who among the available FAs fits best next to Luka.
Right now Reggie Jackson's quite a ways up my list in terms of FAs. If a guy's going to be a contract year ho, I'm still going to give credence to his performance if it was on the biggest stage.