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RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-10-2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBUSHg_v_Jo
Watching KP's exit interview had me encouraged. He said all the right things. KP definitely did not sound like he was checked out and ready to leave. Maybe he is just playing a media game, I don't know but I want to believe him.
I wish he and Luka had better chemistry. I also wonder if other players freeze him out on purpose. It's hard to know. I will say this much though. Selling low on him would be a mistake. There is just no way he is not looking better 4 months from now than he looked last week after a full offseason of training and conditioning. If Mavs are only going to get crap offers they need to just wait until teams see in-shape, not injured KP. If KP is looking like 2019 KP and also better integrated into the offense then his value is going to go way up in a hurry. I don't want to hold onto him too long but if you really can't get anything better than like a broken-down Kemba, it's best to wait a little bit longer.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-10-2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM-36NHGaq8
Also a good breakdown by O'Connor. So my thinking is yes if KP is permanently the guy we saw this year, especially on defense Mavs are in major trouble. If KP can get his conditioning right to move more fluidly on defense and stick to jump shots, easy baskets in the paint within the flow of the offense, I think he can raise his value.
The Mavs bringing in a better defensive front court partner will also help shore up the interior defense.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - ItsGoTime - 06-11-2021
As far as KP and this offseason, it would make sense if they don’t actually shop him. They already know his value around the league from shopping him at the TDL. If a team really wants him, they will come to us. If not, we figure it out with him. Edit: until teams start calling for him.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - burekemde - 06-11-2021
My best advice would be to get him in shape - feature him A LOT in the offense - make him look like a beast again - then trade him at highest possible value for another star.
Its hard to trade a player putting up good stats. But he is injure prone and has some off the court issues and is maybe not the best fit here.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-11-2021
(06-11-2021, 09:17 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: As far as KP and this offseason, it would make sense if they don’t actually shop him. They already know his value around the league from shopping him at the TDL. If a team really wants him, they will come to us. If not, we figure it out with him. Edit: until teams start calling for him.
Ya I think that's the way to go. If you are shopping KP at this point you are only going to get garbage offers.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - TXBamanut - 06-11-2021
(06-10-2021, 06:48 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: It was said that JJJ had the same surgery at the same time and he came back at the end of the season.
Actually JJJ had the same surgery a MONTH EARLIER than KP and didn't come back until the end of the season.
EDIT: Personally, I think that KP's lack of movement has something to do with this fact and the extremely condensed season.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - TXBamanut - 06-11-2021
(06-09-2021, 08:53 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: @"KillerLeft"
BE PREPARED
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944334-sources-say-boston-celtics-and-kemba-walker-want-a-breakup
If we trade KP for basically the 5'10" PG who shoots WORSE from 3 than KP (historically and last season) with the defensive upside of Trey Burke, with more questionable knees than Porzingis...I think I will honestly puke. Anyone who supports that trade is a fool...And adding Marcus Smart just isn't worth that for me. After Kemba's last TWO seasons, I'm not sure I'm okay with trying to add him as the "2nd or 3rd" star with KP and Luka.
I know one thing...here's where I'm staying at this point, with the info we have.
I would rather keep KP, hope that this season's lack of lateral movement, and shot blocking was a result of the condensed schedule and coming back from a surgery too quickly, with having no ability to prepare for the season because of the surgery. If he can get his trade value up during the season and we can get someone who is worth a crap at the TDL or, as always, we get a good offer that makes sense NOW, then I'm all for trading him, but this "lose him at all costs" nonsense, is just that...nonsense. This "But Thomas Bryant and Davis Bertans" stuff ------oh my word. Come on, man.
I'm a Mavs fan before either of our stars were born...not a KP hater or a Luka sniffer...I actually like our team, and want it to succeed, and the best way for this team to succeed in the future is for the above scenario to be true, and we really can't know that right now.
Please...just sing the "NONONONO" song for Kemba...that ship sailed a while ago for me.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Scott41theMavs - 06-11-2021
Just wanted to throw out there... I hear a lot of concern in terms of trading KP that "We'll never recoup what we sent out for him."
Um, we sent out
1) two expiring malcontents who weren't very good at basketball,
2) a "young prospect" who turned out to be a future Shanghai Shark, and
3) two first rounders, one of which is the 21st pick in this draft, plus an indeterminate future pick which will likely be lower as long as Luka is healthy
4) while taking an a supposed albatross contract who turned out to be a player that has been useful to the Mavs over the past two seasons.
The only thing that ended up making the KP trade costly for the Mavs was giving him a max deal that most other teams in the league would have been fairly happy to give him at the time, but he sadly hasn't lived up to it.
So, if his return involves nothing more than, say,
1) a useable player, hopefully a starter (imho Wes and VAJ weren't really usable players for the Knicks),
2) salary relief, whether current or in the form of guys who can serve as decent placeholders until they expire sooner than KP would - '22, the LaVine year, would be fantastic,
3) perhaps one young prospect or a pick,
then we will have broken even on KP imho, given the problem of his health and attitude. That's the kind of prospective trade we should be looking for. Even if teams this summer try to bend the Mavs over, there will be more than one team offering something, so they should be able to play those teams off each other until they get a package like the above.
The only issue with taking a package like that is that, if you held onto him for a summer and can show that he has improved greatly and he stays healthy, you could likely get a more solid package. His health the first two months of the season or so, plus locker room fallout, is the only risk. Not sure what I would do if I were the Mavs.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - KillerLeft - 06-11-2021
(06-11-2021, 04:25 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: I know one thing...here's where I'm staying at this point, with the info we have.
I would rather keep KP, hope that this season's lack of lateral movement, and shot blocking was a result of the condensed schedule and coming back from a surgery too quickly, with having no ability to prepare for the season because of the surgery. If he can get his trade value up during the season and we can get someone who is worth a crap at the TDL or, as always, we get a good offer that makes sense NOW, then I'm all for trading him, but this "lose him at all costs" nonsense, is just that...nonsense. This "But Thomas Bryant and Davis Bertans" stuff ------oh my word. Come on, man.
Yeah, it really boils down to why KP looked like a statue out there this season.
If it's temporary and can be fixed, well then he's only 25 and still offers the promise we all once hoped for. I can see an argument to underscore the possibility of that view.
If it's a big, sudden decline, and the beginning of him sliding down a mountain, physically, then the offers we're imagining with distaste right now might be the sort we'll be fantasizing about a year from now.
We just don't know. I sincerely hope the Mavs do. I thought Sleepinghero's "optimist vs pessimist" post yesterday was the best writing about the KP situation I've read all season. At this point, I'm content to just let it go and see what the Mavs decide to do.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-11-2021
(06-11-2021, 04:46 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Yeah, it really boils down to why KP looked like a statue out there this season.
If it's temporary and can be fixed, well then he's only 25 and still offers the promise we all once hoped for. I can see an argument to underscore the possibility of that view.
It's the gamble the Mavs must make. In my opinion, its hard to imagine that 4 months of rest, conditioning without any sort of rehab has to make him look more spry to begin the season even if its *fools gold.*
I just have a feeling that once GMs see KP looking like 2019 KP, that his value all of a sudden goes up. I believe we saw this effect with Oladipo last year. Ya he was a ticking time bomb but he was healthy until much later in the season and Houston was stupid enough to trade for him (Dipo somehow was a major piece of the Harden trade) and offer him a huge extension.
This was because Dipo started the year off in Indy looking like old Oladipo. Whose to say the same kind of thing couldn't happen with KP? They are in similar situations a little bit, except for contract. Dipo wanted out but was on a 1 year deal. KP is on a much longer deal.
All that to say its basically up to the Mavs brass to decide whether he is in rapid decline, so much so that they need to move him this summer, or if he could have an uptick in health given a full offseason, etc. to improve his value.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - vfromlmf - 06-11-2021
I’m watching John Collins play EXACTLY like the Mavs needed KP to play. The difference seems to be confidence and aggression. Collins is definitely not part of most ATL actions but he’s active and finding ways to impact the game.
It also strikes me how similar their roles are. Collins spends a lot of time standing in the corner. And he’s certainly not an initiator or creator. Collins is a finisher and in today’s NBA, KP needs to embrace the role of finisher too.
Last point is the Mavs talent gap is just really big. They can’t be in the business of giving away a talented guy like KP. They need to ADD talent not trade it away.
Mostly I think they need KP to come in healthy, and continue to evolve his game, and he can be every bit as good as John Collins. He’s already a good, efficient 3rd option.
But for Dallas to take the next step, they need to add a dynamic secondary creator.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-11-2021
I am with you on standing in the corner. I was watching the Bucks and as always Lopez spends most of his time in the corner. I think for a stretch big its perfect. Very simple offense for KP to do less but do it better. Shorter 3, shorter path to the basket, simple cuts, closer to the basket for rebounding, no defenders on one side.
KP spent way to much time running into traffic where 3 guys could swarm on him. Makes no sense. The problem is he was setting up at the top of the perimeter like he's KD except that he's not. I can live with him 2 feet behind the 3 point line from time to time because he helps stretch the defense and Luka may want to switch with his man. That being said there should be plenty of opportunity for him to set him in the corner.
KP is not going to be a star in the sense that he can kill you 10 different ways. He can be star-like in doing a handful of things really well, like shooting where he has a big advantage behind a 7'3 player with an extremely high, quick release.
I would love to see him and DFS in either corner. Maxi when he plays has shown he can shoot well from different spots. KP can as well but I like that shorter 3. DFS also shoots the corner 3 better. THJ is a guy that can stretch the floor so I'd rather have him near the perimeter with Luka along with a screen-setting rim-roller.
The other half of KP's game of course is just playing defense. I am watching Lopez who is heavier, slower and a tad shorter than KP play good defense. I think he had 5 blocks the other night. Not all of interior defense is about agility. KP's foot work is sloppy and he doesn't get into his stance and I am not sure why. I don't think it's all about athleticism. Maybe he got away with his unique athleticism and never really worked on his footwork. Lopez has turned into a pretty solid defender I think by just putting the work in. I believe KP can do the same.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Mavs2021 - 06-12-2021
(06-11-2021, 04:38 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Just wanted to throw out there... I hear a lot of concern in terms of trading KP that "We'll never recoup what we sent out for him."
Um, we sent out
1) two expiring malcontents who weren't very good at basketball,
2) a "young prospect" who turned out to be a future Shanghai Shark, and
3) two first rounders, one of which is the 21st pick in this draft, plus an indeterminate future pick which will likely be lower as long as Luka is healthy
4) while taking an a supposed albatross contract who turned out to be a player that has been useful to the Mavs over the past two seasons.
The only thing that ended up making the KP trade costly for the Mavs was giving him a max deal that most other teams in the league would have been fairly happy to give him at the time, but he sadly hasn't lived up to it.
So, if his return involves nothing more than, say,
1) a useable player, hopefully a starter (imho Wes and VAJ weren't really usable players for the Knicks),
2) salary relief, whether current or in the form of guys who can serve as decent placeholders until they expire sooner than KP would - '22, the LaVine year, would be fantastic,
3) perhaps one young prospect or a pick,
I agree. Unfortunately I doubt the Mavs would look at it this way. They´d look at Harris + Bamba + some asset X as a huge loss. If asset X was Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton or the 8th pick, it´s a big win imho, but I doubt Orlando wants to go that far.
Anyway you can turn Porzingis + THJ + Richardson + Kleber into Harris expiring + Bamba + John Collins (loved the way he battle Embiid yesterday) and generate Lavine 2022 capspace, that´s a huge win imho.
I look at teams like Philly, Utah, Denver or Phoenix, who have two young superstars, plus All-Star level veteran support and elite (defensive) roleplayers. depending on where you stand on JJJ and Hunter, you can add Atlanta to the list. Heck Edwards has shown signs that him and KAT could turn into something special.
Then I look at THJ/Porzingis as our 2nd/3rd option and I´m thinking: What is the point? We have lost twice in the 1st round with that core already. According to this board we overachieved in doing so. Meanwhile the Clippers likely lose in the next round again.
Okay I get maybe the Porzingis trade doesn´t materialize this summer....
....but paying THJ anything above 13-14M/year (preferably declining and 3+1 team option) is just asking for Luka to leave. THJ is shooting 38/33/69 in his play-off career. That´s your idea of a 2nd option, really? Cause NOBODY touches THJ at a fully guaranteed 72/4 plus.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Chicagojk - 06-12-2021
(06-10-2021, 07:55 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: You can view this 1 of two ways, the optimist or the pessimist.
The optimist will say: Hey, this season was a weird season. Essentially it was a lockout shortened year with the added twist of no fans and an ongoing global pandemic to be worried about. So many games in a short amount of time. For KP, he never actually had an offseason. This undoubedtly affected his conditioning and his skills. I mean have you ever played basketball and just stopped for 3 weeks and picked back up? You're of course rusty. Now make the 3 weeks 4 months and instead of the YMCA it's the NBA. Shit is hard. Further KP didn't even have a training camp to get used to the new system/teammates, and was thrown into the fire. KP finally will have a healthy offseason, and the season will return to normal next year.
Looking at it like that it's almost likely we get the old KP back. Lots of positives things.
The pessimist will say: KP is an injury prone stick that has obviously lost a step. He's had 2 knee surgeries in 3 years, and whenever he is healthy he always has nagging injuries. This year it looks like he moves in quicksand and has the balance of a drunk giraffe. There hasn't been any proof that KP can come back to where he was after this latest knee surgery as well. Also, there's a good argument that KP at his best isn't really that good anyways, with mediocre efficiency and a playstyle that is slowly going extinct. Mavs should cut their losses before anything else happens to him.
Both have valid points. I guess you can choose what side you want to be on.
I think this a good take. The bubble performance could have been fools gold and just a small hot streak, but there was stuff to build on. And it looks like none of that was built on.
IMO, my plan for KP if he is back, would be the following:
Get him back to an average to above average defender----better than average would be ideal.
He may not be your second go to scorer, but if he could average 20 and 9 after we add another creater/scorer, that would be ideal. For instance, lets say it is Derozan who will penetrate all game long. HIm and Luka will just put pressure on defense all game long getting into the lane. Can KP be a guy who gets 3-4 dunks a game, gets to the FT line 6 times a game and takes 4-5 threes?
I think that is the ideal role for him. Due to his questions of availability and trouble creating his own shot, I don't think he can be your second option all the time. Having another guy who can create, could put KP in a better spot on offense. Can he make the improvements on defense?
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - MFFL - 06-12-2021
(06-11-2021, 04:38 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Just wanted to throw out there... I hear a lot of concern in terms of trading KP that "We'll never recoup what we sent out for him."
Um, we sent out
2) a "young prospect" who turned out to be a future Shanghai Shark, and
Can you imagine the crowing New York would be doing if we had taken Mitchell instead of Smith in the draft?
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-12-2021
(06-12-2021, 04:33 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: ....but paying THJ anything above 13-14M/year (preferably declining and 3+1 team option) is just asking for Luka to leave. THJ is shooting 38/33/69 in his play-off career. That´s your idea of a 2nd option, really? Cause NOBODY touches THJ at a fully guaranteed 72/4 plus.
Well the this is 72/4 has been sort of the going rate lately for shooters. I also don't want THJ back but I feel like it's going to happen. I think Mavs will try the Maxi + max route to get Collins with a 29/yr first year salary. The issue the Hawks have is that their cap sheet is going to be nuts soon.
That type of trade would require Mavs eat 20 mil in their cap space, leaving only 14 for THJ. Now 14 would be a great number to me but I imagine Mavs have other moves they can make to free up more money for THJ.
I am not in love with a Collins move as the Mavs big move especially since Cubes has been saying they need a playmaker but it is what it is. If Mavs have a KP path to get Turner then I like it a lot better, ie KP to Wiz for some assets that go to Pacers and net Turner here.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Tyler - 06-12-2021
https://twitter.com/dalton_trigg/status/1403791762741678080
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - StepBackJay - 06-12-2021
(06-12-2021, 02:32 PM)Tyler Wrote: https://twitter.com/dalton_trigg/status/1403791762741678080
I like it. I'd feel a lot better if him and Luka acted like they liked each other but oh well.
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - Scott41theMavs - 06-12-2021
Can't get that DT tweet to load, neither here nor on Twitter. What was it?
RE: HOLY KRISTAPS: All Things Porzingis | Would you trade him? - SleepingHero - 06-12-2021
(06-12-2021, 03:31 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Can't get that DT tweet to load, neither here nor on Twitter. What was it?
It's just a screenshot of KP's latest Instagram post.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CQB_7G1L8o_/