(06-08-2021, 12:37 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: Yes, Mavs struggled against small ball all year. Good thing there are a lot of ways to attack small ball. Obviously KP has to return to form as a defender. If he just plays defense like he did in New York this team will be much better. If he also learns how to punish small players on the offensive end, like Dirk learned to do, it will make it virtually impossible for other teams to play small ball against Dallas.

But there's another option that doesn't even involve KP and that's upgrading Kleber. 

Say you do nothing but add DeRozan to the mix. Then all of the sudden you have a Doncic - THJ - DeRozan - DFS - Porzingis lineup that is much more formidable for teams to defend. DeRozan would feast in the paint without a shotblocker ... Mavs might just simply outscore teams with offensive force.

(06-07-2021, 09:30 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I am not suggesting a 00s Cavs like all in approach that leaves the Mavs with terrible contracts, no capspace or picks but I do think that Luka wants the Mavs to do everything  in their power to win now. There are no guarantees in the NBA. One injury. One bad trade (KP). The Mavs have to make the most of it while they have Luka.

(06-08-2021, 05:01 AM)omahen Wrote: I think we all agree Mavs need to upgrade team. That "2024 plan" doesn't mean do nothing till then. But let's be realistic, there are simply no (super)stars available this summer. There is no way Mavs can sign a super star in years 2022 or 2023. Of course you can always trade for one if opportunity appears but then again the "2024 plan" doesn't prevent us from doing that. It is just about keeping flexibility. 

Neglecting some "minor issues" like JRich potentially opting in this team has between 15-20 mil of cap space to use if they resign THJ. Use either Maxi or Powell and you are over 20 mil. That could be enough for a good player. You could also straight up trade Brunson for Smart, for example. So we basically bring back the core minus a bench player plus a good player. Use exception money to cover bench holes. Difficult to say this is not an upgrade. 
 

(06-08-2021, 07:07 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Is Philly going to give Danny Green 3/$50mm? 

(06-08-2021, 07:07 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Is Theis going to get more than the MLE? 

(06-08-2021, 07:07 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: If JRich opts in

(06-07-2021, 11:35 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: Dallas would have beaten the Clippers had they played straight up.

(06-08-2021, 10:09 AM)omahen Wrote: I wouldn't be as negative as Dirkfan about KP but I agree with the general message. That Luka is singled out as a problem after the performance he had is really strange. Like the team was killing it without him...

(06-08-2021, 10:06 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Honestly. We are getting to the point where it feels like some of us are just trying to make excuses for KP because the alternative would mean that the Mavs are screwed. Can bring up the numbers, can show tape. Doesn´t matter. It´s embarassing.

RC and Luka aren´t perfect. They make mistakes. But this is on KP and his level of play. No excuses. Maybe KP would get more touches if he could set a screen (we know the numbers. more switches than any other high usage big in the league). Maybe he would get more post ups if he could score over guards. Maybe he would get more catch and shoot opportunities if he could shoot better than league average from midrange or 3-point range.
Not to mention that all of the offensive shortcomings shouldn´t matter on defense. Offense isn´t even the problem. As long as he spaces the floor the offense is fine. Defense is the real problem. He is unplayable. End of story. Was the Mavs version Zubac in the series against the Clippers. Put him in the pick and roll and the Mavs are screwed. He used to be a good rim protector but even that is gone.
We are talking about the player with the team worst +/- in the regular season that looked even worse in the playoffs. It´s not a new development.

KP is not in the position to ask for anything right now. Certainly not more touches. It´s on him to change that. Of course the Mavs aren´t throwing him under the bus. They don´t want to ruin the relationship and try to encourage him to work on his game. Also don´t want to tank his value.

(06-08-2021, 09:27 AM)TXBamanut Wrote: Jordan scored 63 points against the Celtics in the playoffs, establishing that as a gold standard playoff performance and everyone went nuts...he's amazing.  Larry Bird called him "God disguised as Michael Jordan", it was the greatest scoring performance in a playoff by any player anywhere ever.  He was anointed the greatest player ever...and they lost the series.  IN fact, they got SWEPT in 3 games.  He was flanked by players like Woolridge and Dave Corzine, who weren't horrible, but weren't HOF either, but there were some players who were on his championship team in 91.  Paxson for the series played 80 minutes and took 15 shots...the 5th most shots by a Bulls player in the series.   Jordan took 33 shots per game and averaged 44 points per game.

In the championship series in 91, in 6 games, Paxson took over 3 times as many shots in that series than in the '86 series, and while playing the SAME amount of minutes per game and took the 4th number of shots in the series.  Jordan averaged 22 shots a game and scored 31 points/game.

Everyone said Jordan is amazing and all at age 23...everyone was ecstatic, except Jordan.  His takeaway from that was that I cannot have a usage rate that high (44.5 and Luka's was 40.4) and score every basket and win a championship.  Almost every one of his points came off the dribble, and not off an assist... 

He did exactly what Luka did...and he, at least, had a player that scored 20 ppg on 40% shooting with 20 shots per game in 1986.  In the 1991 series against the Lakers, Jordan's usage rate was 31.8).

The roster has to change, but Luka has to change...the offense has to change.  Luka can't score 60 points a game and make it through to a championship...Jordan figured it out.  Luka has to figure it out.  Donnie said it...he thinks he can score every time, but he's got to learn to use the pieces on the team.  It can't be "I'm going to score and if I can't, I'm getting the assist".  There has to be a consistent set of plays that maximize whoever we have on this team to get a consistent bucket when Luka isn't in the game AND when Luka IS in the game.

I am still where I was.  You can say what you want about playing with Luka, but any star that you bring in, to help Luka, will require Luka giving up the ball and the offense molding to their talents.  You won't find ANYONE that is a bona fide 2nd star or 1a that will come here for this narrative.

Sit in the corner.
Shoot 10 shots.
Get blamed for losses.

That's just fact.  I've "listened" to so many people on this very forum bemoan the "atrocity" of Luka being expected to work to get the second star involved or having to mold the offense to include KP....that, two days after the loss, is as ludicrous a take as it was the first time I read it.

This is a legit view that players in the rest of the league will see, whether all of us do or don't because we think Luka is perfect (and he's as close to perfect as just about any player in the NBA...that's true.)  

Players that are crap and need to win or score some points to up their ability to sign will come.  Established players don't want that...they want to be an integral part of what's going on.

For example, Bradley Beal isn't forcing a trade to go from taking 22 shots per game to start taking 12 shots per game and have fans go "Well, he's not as good as Luka, so he should be happy he ever gets a shot" and "why isn't he helping?"  He's not a regular fan with a ticket...he doesn't want to sit in the corner and worship Luka until Luka gets tired of dribbling or gets caught and gives him the ball.

You can say what you want about KP, and honestly, I don't like his attitude at times, but I do understand it.  For all of those who said "he wasn't aggressive in the LAC" series, you need to watch the series, because you didn't...not seriously.  He basically had a couple of options.  Cut baseline or receive the ball and shoot a 3....time and time again, he cut baseline, and rarely received the ball.  Yeah, I was frustrated that he went 0-5 from 3 in Game 7...I don't absolve him of that, but it's not 0 or 100 either, it's not he's horrible or he's perfect, which seems to be the only two positions allowed on this board.  He's trash and ditch him and if you aren't in that camp and say anything positive, you're an idiot living in fantasy world.  He shot 29% for this series from 3, that's less than Josh Richardson, and that's fact.  He had a terrible game from there...no question that was bad...

I get the emotions because of the loss and the frustrating year and KP's remarks himself, but I think it's leant to a very, very skewed and unrealistic perspective that at the same time says "He's trash" and "We'll get something better than him for a trade because we {fans} somehow see something that others don't see."  If your first take is true, really true, he's not getting traded for anything beyond a bag of beans, until he's expiring or we are going to use our cap space taking back crap to get him out, because both can't be true.

My personal belief:  Luka needed to have his 1986 playoffs to figure out that he can't score 44 a game and win on his own, with either making every shot or directly assisting on every shot.  I don't think he would articulate that he thought he could, but it's one thing to not agree with it verbally and quite another to play like it. 

Everyone else on the roster is not equal, it's not Luka and 4 interchangeable widgets that don't matter because they aren't either as perfect as Luka or they are trash and should shut up.  You have to learn to use the pieces you have to the best of their ability...and you might win a championship, but you'll have to give up the ball and see John Paxon shoot 3 times the number of shots, and the offense is going to have to be BUILT for ALL players to do well, not one to just rack up stats, because he's an awesome player and a great guy...that's just truth, whether you like it or not.

(06-08-2021, 10:22 AM)TXBamanut Wrote: The only way to get a guy to the post is not for him to set a screen.  That just shows how stat conscious you are, but not basketball savvy.  For example, Game 4...screen set FOR KP, crossed to the Low block, pass in from DFS, jump hook score.  Clean as a whistle.  The ONE and only time I remember that play being run in this series and honestly FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON.  Dirk got on the post with the help of a screen for him ALL THE TIME.  He was not exclusively set a screen for JET and then go post).

(06-08-2021, 10:22 AM)TXBamanut Wrote: Don't give me that "he wouldn't hit it..."  That's just you pumping your narrative, but it's a way to get him involved that would help and it is literally never run on either baseline.  I honestly didn't know he had a baseline jumphook in Dallas until Game 4 of the LAC series, but then again, that play was never run before to my knowledge.  It stuck out because DFS actually made a quality entry pass to the hand that KP held up and not a bounce pass to his knees...I literally thought "Where has that been?"

(06-08-2021, 10:22 AM)TXBamanut Wrote: But it's cool...I'm not going to belabor this point.  My fandom has never been tied to KP, so go ahead and trade him...but you just watch what I said.  Clip this and bring it back in the next playoffs or the year after that about usage rate.  It's great to set Luka up as a martyr, but it won't help him or the Mavs win a championship...that's fact.

It's fine...you know better.  Jordan was trash and Luka is the savior.

(06-07-2021, 02:13 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Mavs HAVE to dump him, anything else jeopardizes a huge part of Luka's prime career that is upon us.

(06-08-2021, 10:09 AM)omahen Wrote: I wouldn't be as negative as Dirkfan about KP but I agree with the general message. That Luka is singled out as a problem after the performance he had is really strange. Like the team was killing it without him...

(06-08-2021, 10:25 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote:  I'm going to get flamed for this...but the heliocentric offense is boring to watch.

(06-07-2021, 11:35 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: Alternate take on KP.

Pitchforks are out and I get it. KP's an easy target. Highest paid Mav, supposed second fiddle averaged 13 and 5 in the playoffs. Not good enough, so Dallas lost.

Or is there more to the story? 

Remember, the Mavs weren't supposed to win this series. I think 25 of 25 ESPN pundits picked the Clippers, most in 5 or 6 games. Vegas favored them too. But Dallas stormed out to a 2-0 series lead and forced LA to make some major adjustments to their attack.

Key for Dallas was KP at center (where he does unicorn things) and the Clippers were simply overmatched. KP played well. He didn't post huge numbers, but who cares. Mavs were winning and KP was efficient with his scoring, positive +/- and the spacing was devastating to the Clippers defense. As a result, Luka rendered two of LA's key players unplayable, Beverly & Zubac.

Game 3 opened like the previous two, with Dallas racking up a huge lead against LA's starters. Then things changed. Lue said they finally figured out how to attack the Mavs by going small.

Let me reiterate this point. It looked like the Mavs might sweep the favored Clippers unless they drastically changed their strategy by pulling their center and going small. 

Now, does anyone remember the 2007 playoffs when Nelly's "We Believe" Warriors knocked off top seeded Mavs by going small? It felt SO bad because it seemed like Nelly built Dirk then exploited his only weakness. He tore Dirk down on the biggest stage. Nelly played small ball and it was Dirk's kryptonite.

Small ball was 2021 Mavs' kryptonite as well, but for different reasons. The 2007 Mavs needed Dirk to score but he couldn't get free against the Warriors switching defense. This year it was all about the Mavs defense. KP couldn't defend the rim so Carlisle had to go big, which moved KP from his unicorn position to forward where he is less effective. That also meant less Kleber and more Boban and WCS. Dallas lost 4 of the next 5 games.

So back to my original point and alternate take on KP. Dallas would have beaten the Clippers had they played straight up. They only lost when LA went small. Just like the Warriors series in '07. 

Good thing Dallas didn't just trade Dirk. Obviously, he figured out how to attack small ball. 

I'm willing to bet KP will figure it out too. He's already shown he can defend the rim. Maybe he just needs a little more time to recover from his surgery before he can do it consistently. He's still only 25. He'll get better and Dallas will add better defenders around him. If he does figure out how to play center against small ball lineups, watch out. This team is going to be a contender.

(06-08-2021, 01:21 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: If he stays. Should KP add some muscle/weight again? I am torn.

(06-08-2021, 10:25 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote:  I'm going to get flamed for this...but the heliocentric offense is boring to watch.

The math makes sense...let your generational talent go to work finding a high efficient bucket near the rim or kick it out to an open 3.  Makes sense...not going to argue.

Also...I love watching Luka...best offensive player I've ever seen...and I know another style offense might take the ball out of his hands more...

But...it seems like what GSW do with all the cutting and slashing would be a hard offense to guard....plus it's a super fun product to watch.  

I'm just a casual chiming in, though