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RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - Kammrath - 09-29-2022
RE: What's Next for the Mavs
The Mavs are wanting to trade for a playoff rotation wing. That might come in the form of Crowder, but I think more likely it is a bigger deal for a player much better than Crowder. I think at some point in the next year that will happen. Unlikely before the TDL, though possible. Good chance something at the TDL if the right player becomes available. But I think most likely at this point it is a big trade for a wing next summer.
I think all the reporting consistently point to the Mavs eyeing a two-way wing via a big trade to put with Luka.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - KillerLeft - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 03:55 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I think all the reporting consistently point to the Mavs eyeing a two-way wing via a big trade to put with Luka.
And that's GREAT.
Do you believe that this one, big, ultimate goal has to be the only goal they can manage at this time? Like, one measly, vet-minimum, competent PG would make me feel soooooo much better.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - ItsGoTime - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 03:58 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: And that's GREAT.I myself agree with you on this, but what keeps me from being all that worried about it is they aren’t all that worried about it. Most of the players available for vet min now will be available for vet min later too. I just can’t bring myself to get worked up over an injury insurance position.
Do you believe that this one, big, ultimate goal has to be the only goal they can manage at this time? Like, one measly, vet-minimum, competent PG would make me feel soooooo much better.
I’m much more concerned with:
Wood’s fit both on court and off
Spencer in a starting role and how well he’ll play off of Luka and not getting injured long term
McGee slowing time down and staying the player he has been recently.
Green’s progress and if he’ll step up and show confidence
Frank improving his shot and confidence issues
Hardy looking like a “steal”
Dorsey continuing his Eurobasket roll
Maxi not injuring his back
Bullock starting and finishing the season strong
Luka not getting long term injured
I think if we get through the season with those points being positive, the injury insurance ball handler will have not been a problem.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - DanSchwartzgan - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 03:58 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: And that's GREAT.
Do you believe that this one, big, ultimate goal has to be the only goal they can manage at this time? Like, one measly, vet-minimum, competent PG would make me feel soooooo much better.
Who's to say that won't get done by the time it is necessary. In the mean time, some younger players get some burn and build some value. I'm OK with that. I suspect we will be in a bit of a 2-through-7 logjam in the standings with our without said vet-min PG at about the TDL.
One vet-min competent PG isn't what most people want. They want someone better who will also cost assets that could be used in THE trade that those same people are demanding happen this summer. I think the time to get upset is at the TDL IF our young guys aren't good enough and IF something obvious was available and not pursued that would have helped the current season without jeopardizing future plans.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - KillerLeft - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 05:13 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: One vet-min competent PG isn't what most people want. They want someone better who will also cost assets that could be used in THE trade that those same people are demanding happen this summer. I think the time to get upset is at the TDL IF our young guys aren't good enough and IF something obvious was available and not pursued that would have helped the current season without jeopardizing future plans.
"Want" is a relative thing, yeah?
I want a better fit than Dinwiddie starting next to Luka. I want to improve on Bullock. I want a version of Wood (who can play any style offensively, in theory) who's good enough defensively to anchor a team as a solo big, so as not to be forced to rely on one-dimensional players like McGee.
It's never done, probably. We'll always want things. I might be wrong, but I just don't see how this team will make it even 20 games without a competent PG on the roster. To me, this is about need. I mean, as much of a 180º I've done on Dinwiddie (I was way wrong about him - he's one of my favorites now, especially on-ball as a scorer) I'm not even sure he can actually play PG in the way I'm envisioning.
We're certainly going to find out.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - Kammrath - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 03:58 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Do you believe that this one, big, ultimate goal has to be the only goal they can manage at this time? Like, one measly, vet-minimum, competent PG would make me feel soooooo much better.
I just think they believe they have potential ball handlers on the current roster. AND Cuban probably doesn't want to take on more salary unless those options are proven to be unworkable.
I disagree with you that we "KNOW" that FN cannot be what the Mavs need in that regard. Or Green. Or Dorsey. I think it is much better for the long term if the Mavs can turn JG or FN or TD into that needed ball handler rather than waste developmental minutes on some guy who is going to be retired sooner rather than later.
I also don't think the current roster versus one WITH Dragic (as an example) will be worse in the regular season.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - KillerLeft - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 05:33 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I disagree with you that we "KNOW" that FN cannot be what the Mavs need in that regard. Or Green. Or Dorsey. I think it is much better for the long term if the Mavs can turn JG or FN or TD into that needed ball handler rather than waste developmental minutes on some guy who is going to be retired sooner rather than later.
I also don't think the current roster versus one WITH Dragic (as an example) will be worse in the regular season.
Fair enough.
I've said a few times (since the second they signed him) that I thought Dorsey might be their solution. They signed him at about the time it became clear this was going to be a need. I hope that works out.
I don't have much hope for Ntilikina being able to handle a role like this - if he could, he'd probably still be on the team who has been looking for a point guard for decades, to the point where they had to money-whip Brunson to solve the problem. I certainly like Ntilikina, and I'm glad he's here. After Hardaway, he'd be my second choice to start next to Luka, tbh. I just haven't seen one second of competent offensive initiation from him during his time here. Good defender, YES. Better catch and shoot guy than I anticipated, also YES.
Honestly, just that - starting Hardaway, Ntilikina or even Green over Dinwiddie and enabling a higher percentage of Dinwiddie's minutes to be on-ball, playing downhill, would make me more comfortable.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - F Gump - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 01:14 PM)mvossman Wrote: ... his contention that Grank is a better option at PG than Dragic or Kemba.
I don't know that Kidd said that (if so, I missed it).
But Kidd seems to me to be one doesn't view the team through a roster-building lens (ie, who do we want to ADD, or what are we missing) and instead thinks about what he has, and how to make it work the best.
As for "in what way" might Kidd truly prefer Frank/Green, that would certainly be true from a defensive perspective (and Kidd strongly emphasizes that end of the floor). Also Frank/Green offer way more from a health/youth/energy angle, I think. Setting up the team and making the offense flow? Not so much.
I do generally disagree with DS idea that the Mavs are likely to play lots of minutes with NEITHER Luka or SD on the floor. I can see it happening on an experimental or development basis, trying to plan for injury or to speed the growth, but I think this team has been built for both Luka-SD together as preferred, but no less than 1 on the floor. Of course camp won't reflect that - how can you play 2 PGs together when you are playing 5 on 5, with only 2 PGs on the entire roster with 1 mostly in mothballs and the other perhaps nursing a pain?
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - KillerLeft - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 02:15 PM)cow Wrote: Josh has a club option coming up. This is the last year of Frank's deal. Maybe the thought is, "let's see what we have in those two players before we pull someone off the scrap heap".
There's some obvious validity to this, and I'm all for giving those guys a "make or break" season to get into the rotation. I just think asking them to break in as ball-handlers is the steepest, least likely to be successful path to lay out for them.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - Jym - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 05:49 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Honestly, just that - starting Hardaway, Ntilikina or even Green over Dinwiddie and enabling a higher percentage of Dinwiddie's minutes to be on-ball, playing downhill, would make me more comfortable.
Yeah I think that will end up happening. So much easier to balance the rotation that way
Probably a money situation speaking but I'm honestly glad we didn't just plug and play a one year veteran guard like we normally would in the past. I want a longer term solution to emerge from our young guards and we're giving them that chance. Hopefully they don't all suck
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - F Gump - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 12:59 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: While I don't agree with DLord's theory about Cuban being so much of a skinflint that he won't pay a 15th player minimum wage, I do believe that the reality is that...
I don't want to be right, but they will either have a 15-man roster with 2 2-ways supplementing, or they won't. And it looks to me like they have chosen 14-man (whose ONLY advantage is to save money), and that their choices (and public "explanations") keep aiming them down that road.
I'm not accepting of "we tried" or "we couldn't find anyone" or "it just didn't work out" or "look at our flexibility" excuses from them. I do think they will perhaps add a temporary fill on the spot here or there, picking from guys on the street as temporary help, which will be bottom of barrel talent-wise, but again the cheap way to go.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - F Gump - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 03:55 PM)Kammrath Wrote: RE: What's Next for the Mavs
The Mavs are wanting to trade for a playoff rotation wing. That might come in the form of Crowder, but I think more likely it is a bigger deal for a player much better than Crowder. I think at some point in the next year that will happen. Unlikely before the TDL, though possible. Good chance something at the TDL if the right player becomes available. But I think most likely at this point it is a big trade for a wing next summer.
I think all the reporting consistently point to the Mavs eyeing a two-way wing via a big trade to put with Luka.
This is the same silliness it always was.
Mavs had said "We need Brunson, a big, and a playoff-playable wing to rotate with DFS/RB" then the media guys took that and kept running with it, and you took it even farther than they did, even after everything changed.
Mavs did get the big(s). They whiffed on Brunson, creating that massive hole to fill. Mavs started talking about how THJ was like getting a new player, and imo I think he was their plan B on the wing if they couldn't land someone they liked with the assets available (which likely included the trade value of THJ).
It began as "trade for big wing is desired" ...then "it's in the works" .... then "big wing trade coming in August or before!"....and now it's "well, what they really meant was they want one someday down the road, maybe."
Let's tell it like it is. First of all, the long term idea is not for a guy to rotate with DFS-RB but rather it's the wishful quest to land the star wing like Kawhi, Lebron, Giannis, etc, those guys who do it all. It's just a wish, a hope to find the 2nd guy at some point. Robin. Maybe they will find him, maybe not, but it's a hope more than a plan. Second of all, it's silliness to put a time line on it. They have no timeline. It's just a wish that they keep trying to fill. But it's super hard without assets, and without a FO that can do the marginal moves to fill in around 2 massive contracts (since Luka is already on the max money plan), because in order to get Robin, you lose all the worker bees to support the stars.
PERSPECTIVE: They did this for 2 decades with Dirk. We can wish. But nothing is truly in the works.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - F Gump - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 06:22 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I just think asking them to break in as ball-handlers is the steepest, least likely to be successful path to lay out for them.
To be fair, the "don't start out with trying to make them ball-handlers" year was last season, wasn't it? Realistically, it's probably time to take the training wheels off, and see what happens.
It's possible they could be picking from ALL of Frank, Green, Dorsey, and Hardy for that opening. They only really need to find one.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - cow - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 06:22 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: There's some obvious validity to this, and I'm all for giving those guys a "make or break" season to get into the rotation. I just think asking them to break in as ball-handlers is the steepest, least likely to be successful path to lay out for them.
I know Frank is young but I kind of think he might be what he is at this point. Someone that is more of a defensive specialist but is comfortable with the ball in his hands. I don't think he'll ever have more of a role than "break in case of emergency".
Josh is kind of the same but with more upside offensively. He's the most important guy to figure it out with and I think he should get the most minutes unless he is a complete disaster.
Maybe Hardy or Dorsey will surprise us all.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - cow - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 03:55 PM)Kammrath Wrote: RE: What's Next for the Mavs
The Mavs are wanting to trade for a playoff rotation wing. That might come in the form of Crowder, but I think more likely it is a bigger deal for a player much better than Crowder. I think at some point in the next year that will happen. Unlikely before the TDL, though possible. Good chance something at the TDL if the right player becomes available. But I think most likely at this point it is a big trade for a wing next summer.
I think all the reporting consistently point to the Mavs eyeing a two-way wing via a big trade to put with Luka.
This just seems like stating the obvious. Unlikely before the TDL due to the nature of our owed pick to New York. After that conveys, Nico is working with a full compliment of picks.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - Chicagojk - 09-29-2022
I would keep an eye on McKinley Wright to see how he does in training camp. If he won the second two way slot, he can be the in case of emergency backup ball handler.
Nothing special and probably not here long, but he has some characteristics of a guy who finds a way to stick around.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - Mapka - 09-29-2022
(09-29-2022, 06:32 PM)F Gump Wrote: I don't want to be right, but they will either have a 15-man roster with 2 2-ways supplementing, or they won't. And it looks to me like they have chosen 14-man (whose ONLY advantage is to save money), and that their choices (and public "explanations") keep aiming them down that road.
I'm not accepting of "we tried" or "we couldn't find anyone" or "it just didn't work out" or "look at our flexibility" excuses from them. I do think they will perhaps add a temporary fill on the spot here or there, picking from guys on the street as temporary help, which will be bottom of barrel talent-wise, but again the cheap way to go.
In the end that's like the explanation, why someone not doing something, might not be lazy.
It's just not worth it to them.
I have a hard time to see how Dragic isn't worth a min, but there might have been other obstacles.
And other than that, no other player I can see is worth it to me (yet).
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo - 09-30-2022
(09-29-2022, 08:16 PM)cow Wrote: I know Frank is young but I kind of think he might be what he is at this point. Someone that is more of a defensive specialist but is comfortable with the ball in his hands. I don't think he'll ever have more of a role than "break in case of emergency".
Josh is kind of the same but with more upside offensively. He's the most important guy to figure it out with and I think he should get the most minutes unless he is a complete disaster.
Maybe Hardy or Dorsey will surprise us all.
Dorsey looks like the direct THJ replacement with slightly better handles, I see Dorsey as the shoot first ask later SG and not really a PG.
Hardy is THJ with even more better handles, so I guess he'd be more like an unpolished Clarkson. While polished Clarkson can pass as a playmaker/PG, Hardy has a long way to go.
Frank is a 3 and D combo-guard who I think can be trusted with very basic PG duties. Don't expect him to control the pace of the game though or manage the offense.
Green would/should be the interesting one. His vision is far superior of any of the guards except of course for Luka and Dinwiddie. I have doubts about his dribble if he can keep it under ball pressure. His dribble is good but not advance. A PG must be adept at ball handling and I do not see Green developing his handles further.
What I see as a way around for the third PG is a combo of Green + any of Dorsey, Frankie and Hardy. The three guys would be the ball handlers most of the time until JG is set to play make at the SG spot.
This of course only happens if neither Luka or Dinwiddie is playing.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - cow - 09-30-2022
(09-29-2022, 09:13 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: I would keep an eye on McKinley Wright to see how he does in training camp. If he won the second two way slot, he can be the in case of emergency backup ball handler.
Nothing special and probably not here long, but he has some characteristics of a guy who finds a way to stick around.
I would think having Pinson on the rosters limits the amount of guys you'd want that don't have upside. Pinson can also be used in case of emergency and he's got a really nice bball IQ. Everyone else on the end of the bench should probably be guys that have upside or athletic traits that could be developed.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Vegas line: DAL 47.5 wins (7th in West) | preseason Oct 5, 7, 14 - ItsGoTime - 09-30-2022
(09-30-2022, 12:55 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: Dorsey looks like the direct THJ replacement with slightly better handles, I see Dorsey as the shoot first ask later SG and not really a PG.So, I think what gets lost in this conversation is what role we’re talking about. I think some are talking about an SD role replacement while others are talking about a 3rd string pg. It’s “will he do in a pinch” as opposed to “we need this role every game”.
Hardy is THJ with even more better handles, so I guess he'd be more like an unpolished Clarkson. While polished Clarkson can pass as a playmaker/PG, Hardy has a long way to go.
Frank is a 3 and D combo-guard who I think can be trusted with very basic PG duties. Don't expect him to control the pace of the game though or manage the offense.
Green would/should be the interesting one. His vision is far superior of any of the guards except of course for Luka and Dinwiddie. I have doubts about his dribble if he can keep it under ball pressure. His dribble is good but not advance. A PG must be adept at ball handling and I do not see Green developing his handles further.
What I see as a way around for the third PG is a combo of Green + any of Dorsey, Frankie and Hardy. The three guys would be the ball handlers most of the time until JG is set to play make at the SG spot.
This of course only happens if neither Luka or Dinwiddie is playing.
If SD or Luka goes down in a single game, are we going to lose that single game if we play one of the players being talked about as opposed to a vet min guy? We can get that vet min guy after that single game, even on a back to back situation. That vet min wouldn’t have the benefit of playing and getting to know the team very well, but if it’s determined that the others aren’t ready for it (and it looks like the coaching staff is of the opinion that they’re ready to find out if they are) then I think we were screwed anyway. Burke level players just ain’t it, sorry if that comes as a surprise.
Let’s also not forget that JKidd named Wood and DFS as guys that can handle the ball (if we’re going that route, I might also suggest that THJ can handle the ball a bit as well). I think of those guys as the secondary playmaker/bailout options, like the JB/SD role when Luka is playing. This gives the offense a bit more freedom and movement like we’ve seen on teams like the Clippers or Celtics or Warriors.