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+--- Thread: MAVS NEWS: Luka Wins Community Cares Award! | DLive's Mom Passes Away| Maxi OUT (/showthread.php?tid=2172)
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RE: MAVS NEWS: Hardy signs 3yrs/$4.8M | Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench? - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 12:33 PM)F Gump Wrote: The Mavs stance on this doesn't make any sense, unless (as you theorize) they were penciling Dragic into the 4th creator spot that Burke filled last season, and trying to bring him in for that.
That certainly would seem to indicate there's a coming deal already lined up. It then fits neatly, right into your view of Mavs World 2022. But frankly, I haven't thought a deal-waiting-to-be-done exists, except maybe in their dreams and hallucinations, so I'm still struggling to understand the way they negotiated with GD. It sure would be great if your view turned out to be right, instead of mine.
While I understand that as Mavs fans we've been burned a ton in the past having false hopes in offseasons I would definitely say that there's clearly pieces that do not fit on this roster and still GIANT shoes to drop this offseason so I don't understand why it feels like a dream or hallucination to think that there is still a deal to be done. I'm doing my best to not get my hopes up but all signs certainly point to this roster not being complete. I know that we have reports of "end of August" but I'm trying not to judge this roster until we're going into the playoffs next year because I personally feel Hardaway is one of those pieces that don't fit and we may have to play his value up a little bit to make a deal that makes sense.
One random side note. After listening to Cato's podcast I thought the most interesting tidbit was that we actually can go ahead and trade our 2025 draft pick today and just put conditional language around it. Was surprised by that as we've all acted under this assumption that we need to remove the protections for that to happen but it sounds like another team can accept that pick with the (relatively safe) assumption that the 2023 pick will convey.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Hardy signs 3yrs/$4.8M | Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench? - mvossman - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 01:31 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: While I understand that as Mavs fans we've been burned a ton in the past having false hopes in offseasons I would definitely say that there's clearly pieces that do not fit on this roster and still GIANT shoes to drop this offseason so I don't understand why it feels like a dream or hallucination to think that there is still a deal to be done. I'm doing my best to not get my hopes up but all signs certainly point to this roster not being complete. I know that we have reports of "end of August" but I'm trying not to judge this roster until we're going into the playoffs next year because I personally feel Hardaway is one of those pieces that don't fit and we may have to play his value up a little bit to make a deal that makes sense.
I feel like you answered your own question in the first sentence. The roster clearly had pieces that didn't fit last year going into the season. We had like 7 centers and Luka and Brunson being the only rotation level players that could pass the ball. Then we made a trade at the TDL that addressed our playmaking issue while crushing our big depth. We had a balanced roster for a couple of weeks when we traded for Wood before Brunson walked. Those were good times. Then instead of addressing the gaping hole left by Brunson (or you can argue left by Dinwiddie after he replaces Brunson) we double down on the frontcourt by spending our last resources to overpay a mid 30s backup center. Then we told the most obvious choice to address the missing playmaking/creation that we had no minutes for him. This FO has not given a lot of reason to have confidence they are going to make a move to clean this up.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Hardy signs 3yrs/$4.8M | Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench? - RoyTarpleysGhost - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 12:33 PM)F Gump Wrote: The Mavs stance on this doesn't make any sense, unless (as you theorize) they were penciling Dragic into the 4th creator spot that Burke filled last season, and trying to bring him in for that.
That certainly would seem to indicate there's a coming deal already lined up. It then fits neatly, right into your view of Mavs World 2022. But frankly, I haven't thought a deal-waiting-to-be-done exists, except maybe in their dreams and hallucinations, so I'm still struggling to understand the way they negotiated with GD. It sure would be great if your view turned out to be right, instead of mine.
Why are you being so negative on the internet?
RE: MAVS NEWS: Hardy signs 3yrs/$4.8M | Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench? - F Gump - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 01:31 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: While I understand that as Mavs fans we've been burned a ton in the past having false hopes in offseasons I would definitely say that there's clearly pieces that do not fit on this roster and still GIANT shoes to drop this offseason so I don't understand why it feels like a dream or hallucination to think that there is still a deal to be done. I'm doing my best to not get my hopes up but all signs certainly point to this roster not being complete. I know that we have reports of "end of August" but I'm trying not to judge this roster until we're going into the playoffs next year because I personally feel Hardaway is one of those pieces that don't fit and we may have to play his value up a little bit to make a deal that makes sense.
You may be right in thinking that they are postponing their Big Trade until after THJ has been given a chance to resuscitate his value. If he's in demand, then a THJ + filler package might be able to pull in a much-needed return.
But for me, that still doesn't answer the question of where they will fill the hole for the first 2/3 of the season of the 3rd creator/offense starter to rotate with Luka/SD. They told Dragic to go away, instead of giving him the job? Doesn't make sense. They don't think they need such a guy? Also doesn't make sense, in light of last season, and this season's starting lineup plans (with both Luka and SD on the floor to start games), and what Kidd says is important to making Luka more effective. They clearly need that 3rd guy right up front, not later.
In looking at THIS set of players, the only conclusion is that (a) they have a trade coming soon (which I just don't expect to happen), or (b) some combo of THJ, Green, Franky, and Hardy will be auditioned to handle that task of 3rd creator, until they finally get a trade done, which doesn't give me confidence. And trades rarely wait very long - if it doesn't happen now, other teams can swoop in and grab the deal instead, or the trade partner can get cold feet. The longer the wait, the smaller the chances it ever gets done at all.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Hardy signs 3yrs/$4.8M | Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench? - F Gump - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 02:55 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: Why are you being so negative on the internet?
To balance out all the wild-eyed optimists like you who see unicorns with rainbow glitter showing up everywhere on a whim!
RE: MAVS NEWS: Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench | Dragic not offered minutes - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 07-13-2022
I agree with the points made from @"F Gump" and @"mvossman", I think the main thing I'm trying to get across is that we're ignoring that the entire league seems to be waiting on this KD trade. If that happens and we're not involved in some edge case sort of way then I will raise my pitchforks with yall because I agree with the glaring needs that everyone is pointing out.
The idea that we're trying to go back to a two big systems seems that have been squashed so I have faith that they recognize that 3 playmakers was just as key to our success as a single big. Whether or not they address that remains to be seen.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench | Dragic not offered minutes - KillerLeft - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 10:37 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Now to look for THJ or THJ/Powell deals that yield a defensive wing and a third PG who might have been willing to take a day off once every five so Dragic could play his once every five games.
If a trade like this goes down, it has the chance of significantly improving my outlook on this off-season. Here's hoping.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench | Dragic not offered minutes - KillerLeft - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 07:29 AM)Kammrath Wrote: Either they are ready to have JG/FN/JH play backup PG minutes OR they have something else planned.
I agree with the logic and these two options, but here's the third option that all Mavs fans should be aware might ultimately be most likely:
"OR they HAD/THOUGHT THEY HAD something else planned."
I don't want to be overly negative, and I desperately want to see another shoe drop that makes all of this make sense. It is possible that this will happen, once the KD stuff gets worked out, I agree. Important to remember though, given the Mavs' track record, that it isn't just the strategy we need to critique, it's also the execution of said strategy.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench | Dragic not offered minutes - Kammrath - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 03:24 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I agree with the logic and these two options, but here's the third option that all Mavs fans should be aware might ultimately be most likely:
"OR they HAD/THOUGHT THEY HAD something else planned."
And if no trade comes to fruition, then I will stand there at the beginning of training camp and declare, "This past summer was a failure! Nico better get the TDL right!"
RE: MAVS NEWS: Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench | Dragic not offered minutes - dirkfansince1998 - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 03:44 PM)Kammrath Wrote: And if no trade comes to fruition, then I will stand there at the beginning of training camp and declare, "This past summer was a failure! Nico better get the TDL right!"
That´s the thing. We keep pushing the time line. For the Mavs it is always the next TDL or the next offseason. Still hope that Nico can break the pattern.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench | Dragic not offered minutes - ThisIStheYear - 07-13-2022
Do I think Dragic can still play at an NBA level? Absolutely not. Was I disappointed anyways that the Mavs missed on him? Yes, because I thought they believed he could play and just couldn’t close the deal. Am I glad to learn the Mavs missed on him because they actually agree with me that he’s washed, and so they couldn’t offer him anything more than a Luka’s moral support role? Yes. The Mavs played this one right. It’s a positive that they’ll be able to use that roster spot for a player who can either actually help now or has a chance to develop into an asset with at least some long term positive value.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench | Dragic not offered minutes - Kammrath - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 03:52 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: That´s the thing. We keep pushing the time line. For the Mavs it is always the next TDL or the next offseason. Still hope that Nico can break the pattern.
If I didn't have hope then I would stop being a fan. It is the nature of fandom to always hope in next year. If you don't want to live by hope, then I would suggest stopping at being a fan.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench | Dragic not offered minutes - dirkfansince1998 - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 03:57 PM)Kammrath Wrote: If I didn't have hope then I would stop being a fan. It is the nature of fandom to always hope in next year. If you don't want to live by hope, then I would suggest stopping at being a fan.
Playing the long game. Cuban is 63. I am hopeful that I can outlast him.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench | Dragic not offered minutes - Scott41theMavs - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 03:24 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I agree with the logic and these two options, but here's the third option that all Mavs fans should be aware might ultimately be most likely:
"OR they HAD/THOUGHT THEY HAD something else planned."
I don't want to be overly negative, and I desperately want to see another shoe drop that makes all of this make sense. It is possible that this will happen, once the KD stuff gets worked out, I agree. Important to remember though, given the Mavs' track record, that it isn't just the strategy we need to critique, it's also the execution of said strategy.
Wow. Absolutely nailed it. I'm in awe at the posting perfection displayed here.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench | Dragic not offered minutes - KillerLeft - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 04:04 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Cuban is 63. I am hopeful that I can outlast him.
No chance, dude. He's a billionaire, so he'll be in space next to Elon when the water riots happen, snug and safe, waiting them out.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media0.giphy.com/media/J20Z2SH5WmCnzSrbqA/giphy.gif)
RE: MAVS NEWS: Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench | Dragic not offered minutes - dirkfansince1998 - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 04:11 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: No chance, dude. He's a billionaire, so he'll be in space next to Elon when the water riots happen, snug and safe, waiting them out.
He is a "poor" billionaire. Cannot even afford his own space program. He might be able to buy a seat on one of the ships but as annoying as he can be they probably toss him out within a couple of hours.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench | Dragic not offered minutes - Jommybone - 07-13-2022
I dunno, guys. I’ve been pretty impressed with the moves since Nico arrived. Bullock was a steal. The KP trade was a big plus. The trade for Wood was a masterpiece.
Losing JB for nuttin’ hurts big time. But it’s hard to judge how bad it is till the dominos are done falling. Clearly they ain’t.
The Dragic news points unmistakably towards already having a bird in hand. I get the point that it might only be a bird in the bush. But I’m having a hard time believing they tell Dragic they don’t have minutes for him unless there’s already a handshake deal with someone they trust.
The trust thing rules out a Lowry deal with the Heat I suppose. So I’m gonna guess Gordon Hayward. THJ & Dwight to the Pacers. Turner to Charlotte. Why not.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench | Dragic not offered minutes - KillerLeft - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 04:26 PM)Jommybone Wrote: So I’m gonna guess Gordon Hayward. THJ & Dwight to the Pacers. Turner to Charlotte.
I'd love that. Love it.
Would still need another ball-handler, probably specifically a PG at that point. Hayward would improve playmaking overall by a significant margin, but he's not a "run the offense for 5 minutes at a time" type at this point, I don't think.
Still, if this happened, we could start to use the word "flexible" with a straight face, imo.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench | Dragic not offered minutes - StepBackJay - 07-13-2022
After Mavs got PGs off the street for nothing last year during the Covid stuff I think they realized getting a Burke-level PG is pretty trivial. PGs, especially smaller guards are all over the place. I think they will hold out for a bigger move. My guess is that Dragic just didn't move the needle much over guys they could get off the street.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Kidd: McGee & SD to start | CW off bench | Dragic not offered minutes - KillerLeft - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 04:30 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: My guess is that Dragic just didn't move the needle much over guys they could get off the street.
I disagree with this, particularly because it's NOT the Burke role that most needs to be filled right now, and we can surmise from the pieces of info coming in that the Burke role WAS what they offered him.
That means A) they DID value him (in that role) more than the other "guys they could get off the street" but B) not enough to offer him the bigger, vitally important role we all know they have available.
Again, I think @"Kammrath" is doing a pretty good job of connecting the dots here. They either have a better idea than Dragic lined up or they thought they did when those negotiations were taking place.
When the dust clears, the question will be: were they right to prioritize the choices they made, or not? If nothing better materializes, no. If it does, sure. It's that simple.