(11-20-2023, 08:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: So...I've never been a fan of McGee, and didn't want him here either time he was a Mav. And, I'm super happy he's gone. BUT...

Can we talk about how much better he looks the second he gets to a different team? Is this a Kidd thing? A Luka thing? Who was it who hated him so much, I wonder? He's kind of the exact player they need right now, isn't he?

(11-20-2023, 06:29 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think this is a good list. I could go either way on #3, but if I wanted the team to make noise THIS season, I'd probably hold onto Hardaway until the summer, at least. He really, truly is an asset in this 6th man role.

(11-20-2023, 08:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: So...I've never been a fan of McGee, and didn't want him here either time he was a Mav. And, I'm super happy he's gone. BUT...

Can we talk about how much better he looks the second he gets to a different team? Is this a Kidd thing? A Luka thing? Who was it who hated him so much, I wonder? He's kind of the exact player they need right now, isn't he?

(11-20-2023, 08:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: So...I've never been a fan of McGee, and didn't want him here either time he was a Mav. And, I'm super happy he's gone. BUT...

Can we talk about how much better he looks the second he gets to a different team? Is this a Kidd thing? A Luka thing? Who was it who hated him so much, I wonder? He's kind of the exact player they need right now, isn't he?

(11-20-2023, 08:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: So...I've never been a fan of McGee, and didn't want him here either time he was a Mav. And, I'm super happy he's gone. BUT...

Can we talk about how much better he looks the second he gets to a different team? Is this a Kidd thing? A Luka thing? Who was it who hated him so much, I wonder? He's kind of the exact player they need right now, isn't he?

(11-20-2023, 05:56 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: 3. THJ Pump and Dump. Pump is going well so far. Will our front office be able to execute the dump? This has to yield us a big PF/SF type.

(11-21-2023, 02:59 AM)omahen Wrote: If you can't get a good player for him at TDL, but you are offered worse player on similar contract and asset(s). Would you do it?

Personally, I would consider it.

(11-21-2023, 07:40 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Last season the defense was slightly better with Powell on the floor. Don't think he has been any worse this year. Sample sizes are still really small but looking at the available lineup data the Mavs aren't doing him any favors. Lineup with the most minutes (20) features Irving/THJ/Exum/Green next to him. Resulting in a 135.7 defensive rating. In contrast Powell + starters (Doncic/Irving/DJJ/Williams) results in the best defensive rating (96.3) among all 5-man combinations that played more than 10 minutes.
In general playing next to DJJ and to a lesser degree Williams leads to better defensive numbers for most Mavs.

The bench unit is playing without a single SF/PF sized player (not named Luka...who rarely shows enough effort to count). Ignoring trade options the only hope is Kleber returning from his injury and staying healthy enough to play 20+ minutes. A story that is repeating itself year after year.

(11-20-2023, 06:10 PM)youzigizag Wrote: Im going to wade into uncomfortable territory as I might get ridiculed for this comment...

I was briefly looking at Drummond vs McGee stats last night...admittedly I didnt dive into advanced stats or anything as I dont know what I am looking at....but is Drummond a far superior player than Javale currently?   Javale has played less game and a few less minutes...but Drummond basically has him in rebounds which we need.   My point is...Drummond's name gets flashed around here currently...posters claiming we sniffed around him last year as a trade target...is Javale and Drummond all that different?   Are they completely two different types of players?  Because I just see them as old, unmodern NBA Centers with similar size.   Is Drummond that much more elite at fetching rebounds and to some extent lobs that he is worth pursuing?   Because we just got over a failed experiment with McGee...who I actually think makes players adjust their shot in the paint.  His advanced stats might say he sucks,  everyone here hated him...but is Drummond that far in front of him that it is worth pursuing?

(11-21-2023, 07:40 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Last season the defense was slightly better with Powell on the floor. Don't think he has been any worse this year. Sample sizes are still really small but looking at the available lineup data the Mavs aren't doing him any favors. Lineup with the most minutes (20) features Irving/THJ/Exum/Green next to him. Resulting in a 135.7 defensive rating. In contrast Powell + starters (Doncic/Irving/DJJ/Williams) results in the best defensive rating (96.3) among all 5-man combinations that played more than 10 minutes.
In general playing next to DJJ and to a lesser degree Williams leads to better defensive numbers for most Mavs.

The bench unit is playing without a single SF/PF sized player (not named Luka...who rarely shows enough effort to count). Ignoring trade options the only hope is Kleber returning from his injury and staying healthy enough to play 20+ minutes. A story that is repeating itself year after year.

(11-21-2023, 08:23 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Hmm...this won't happen because OKC doesn't need him, but I was thinking what Dallas would do if they were offered Bertans and a future first for Hardaway at the deadline.   I would imagine Luka wouldn't think too highly of that but wonder if a package like that would be better to try to move this summer.

(11-21-2023, 11:24 AM)omahen Wrote: In general teams looking to get better are not really willing to include good players in any deals. On the other hand, bad teams whose goal is to be bad, are not looking for players like THJ. 

Orlando seems like a team most desperate for shooting, while they want to compete. They have some decent size contracts like Fultz, Isaac or Harris and they have picks to offer. None of them really means anything to Mavs. But, perhaps there is a third team to be involved (Harris is expiring and Isaac also technicaly). I don't think Orlando (or any other team) would offer an unprotected pick for THJ. Lottery protected or perhaps a top 10 protected would be realistic. This would increase Mavs asset base for a trade either this season or in the summer. 

Lets say Toronto wants to blow it up. They have no use of THJ in that instance. They want as much flexibility as possible. Mavs also only have one pick to offer at TDL. But if we reroute THJ to a team like Orlando, Mavs could have two picks to offer. 

Mavs could of course wait till summer, but there is a risk that offer is no longer on the table. THJ could get injured, for example. 

Of course nothing will be done until TDL. Just killing time until then.

(11-21-2023, 09:36 AM)surfpuckmd Wrote: It's one of the consequences of starting DJJ over Green.  The defense would be better with DJJ playing next to Powell as he provides some rim protection and is a pretty good defender.  I also think Luka and Powell need to be paired more.  They work well together on offense and Luka's elite rebounding covers DP's below-average rebounding.  Coaching counts and I think it's an issue on this team.

(11-21-2023, 12:57 PM)sefant Wrote: well, starting 5 with Green have good net ratings.. Green instead of Kyrie (+17) and Green instead of DJJ (+33) have vastly superior net rating compared to the orginal starters (-5). Also his DefRtg seems fine, not playing with THJ/Powell.




In Exum and Powell's case its only 30 min. Otherwise thats the net ratings of players without THJ/Powell on the floor. In Tim's case without Powell. Its at least interesting that the defense is still bad with Lively. And its pretty much the only guy where the defense is bad. The next worst are Kyrie at 112 and Grant at 111, which is solid.


- Luka/Kyrie/Lively: 114 DefRtg
- Luka/THJ/Lively: 122 DefRtg
- Luka/Tim/Lively (plus Kyrie on bench): 20 DefRtg
- Luka/Kyrie/Lively (plus Tim on bench): 110 DefRtg

Now doing the same with just Kyrie:

- Kyrie/THJ/Lively: 125 DefRtg
- Kyrie/Lively (no THJ) : 112 DefRtg
- Tim/Lively (no Kyrie) : 121 DefRtg

Can't even put the blame on those all guard Luka/Kyrie/Tim lineups.


But yea as i said a few games Green should probably start. And try Exum/DJJ with Powell. Even if it didn't look too good vs. Kings either. But it was also a b2b. Thats the superior rotation based on numbers until Kleber is back.

Solution to improve the defense:

- start Green
- DJJ from the bench
- Experiment to give some of Tim minutes to Exum. And be more careful who is around Tim when you use him.

Even if the offense drops off too much with Exum, maybe you can live with a more scuffed bench offense. In the past the bench offense was also questionable, but the bench defense was always having elite DefRtg with Green/Kleber. If you get stops, you don't need a high powered offense to be positive.

(11-21-2023, 05:06 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Bad lineups and bad defensive rotations. Guess who the common denominator is there.

This team's success this year will be in proportion to how early in the season Kidd is fired. For those of you who believe there is no circumstance in which he is fired this year, you may be right, but how dreadful for a team with potential. I've said it before - if Kidd isn't fired at all this season, my record prediction is 38-44, just missing the play-in. Yay, we maybe get to keep another pick.

(11-21-2023, 12:57 PM)sefant Wrote: well, starting 5 with Green have good net ratings.. Green instead of Kyrie (+17) and Green instead of DJJ (+33) have vastly superior net rating compared to the orginal starters (-5). Also his DefRtg seems fine, not playing with THJ/Powell.




In Exum and Powell's case its only 30 min. Otherwise thats the net ratings of players without THJ/Powell on the floor. In Tim's case without Powell. Its at least interesting that the defense is still bad with Lively. And its pretty much the only guy where the defense is bad. The next worst are Kyrie at 112 and Grant at 111, which is solid.


- Luka/Kyrie/Lively: 114 DefRtg
- Luka/THJ/Lively: 122 DefRtg
- Luka/Tim/Lively (plus Kyrie on bench): 20 DefRtg
- Luka/Kyrie/Lively (plus Tim on bench): 110 DefRtg

Now doing the same with just Kyrie:

- Kyrie/THJ/Lively: 125 DefRtg
- Kyrie/Lively (no THJ) : 112 DefRtg
- Tim/Lively (no Kyrie) : 121 DefRtg

Can't even put the blame on those all guard Luka/Kyrie/Tim lineups.


But yea as i said a few games Green should probably start. And try Exum/DJJ with Powell. Even if it didn't look too good vs. Kings either. But it was also a b2b. Thats the superior rotation based on numbers until Kleber is back.

Solution to improve the defense:

- start Green
- DJJ from the bench
- Experiment to give some of Tim minutes to Exum. And be more careful who is around Tim when you use him.

Even if the offense drops off too much with Exum, maybe you can live with a more scuffed bench offense. In the past the bench offense was also questionable, but the bench defense was always having elite DefRtg with Green/Kleber. If you get stops, you don't need a high powered offense to be positive.

(11-20-2023, 06:29 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think this is a good list. I could go either way on #3, but if I wanted the team to make noise THIS season, I'd probably hold onto Hardaway until the summer, at least. He really, truly is an asset in this 6th man role.

(11-21-2023, 09:28 PM)The Jom Wrote: I dunno man. I usually love your posts. But the only way you can sell high on Hardaway is if you actually sell when he’s high.