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+--- Thread: MAVS NEWS: Luka Wins Community Cares Award! | DLive's Mom Passes Away| Maxi OUT (/showthread.php?tid=2172)
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RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 10:02 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: I didn´t say he sucks, but I´m not the one trying to prop him up to be more than he is.
I wasn’t trying to prop him up either, just sharing some interesting stats regarding him as a screener.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - DanSchwartzgan - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 10:02 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: I didn´t say he sucks, but I´m not the one trying to prop him up to be more than he is. He´s a back-up, probably 3rd string, center. I don´t need any justifcation for paying him $4M. That´s perfectly fine money. But it´s always this attempt to prop him up to be more than he is, like the 44/4 premature contract extension.
The net rating is also not the decisive factor. It´s the defensive rating that matters most, cause to win, we´ll have to get stops at crucial moments of the game. You can put Luka/Kyrie on the floor with Cuban´s Grandma at center and they´ll find a way to score.
Actually Net Rating is the only thing that matters to...you know...actually winning. Cause to win you actually have to score points and get stops at crucial points in the game.
And that is probably true about Cuban's Grandma as long as her surname isn't German.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - Mavs2021 - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 09:38 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I originally picked up Luka/Kyrie/GWill minutes which had me looking in the wrong place for Powell. Since I've posted wrong numbers, here is what NBA.com has for Kyrie/Luka 3-man lineups with a center.
Kyrie/Luka: 175 Minutes, Net = 11.0, O = 123.3, D = 112.4
Kyrie/Luka/Lively: 99 Minutes, Net = 16.5, O = 123.9, D = 107.3
Kyrie/LukaPowell: 41 Minutes, Net = 10.2, O = 125.0, D = 114.8
Kyrie/Luka/Maxi: 18 Minutes, Net = -24.0, O = 107.7, D = 131.7
And that right there is the key number.
Also sadly Maxi has been a huge problem this season, but he still has a good reputation around the league as an impactful defender, when healthy. Question is whether he´ll ever be healthy again.
I think if the Mavs use their 2027 1st round pick it will be with Maxi/Holmes not THJ.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - DanSchwartzgan - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 10:27 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: And that right there is the key number.
Also sadly Maxi has been a huge problem this season, but he still has a good reputation around the league as an impactful defender, when healthy. Question is whether he´ll ever be healthy again.
I think if the Mavs use their 2027 1st round pick it will be with Maxi/Holmes not THJ.
Finally we agree on something (what we'll pair the 2027 pick with if traded).
That 114.8 is still better than the team's overall D-Rating and Dallas is once again positive in the Powell minutes this season (7th season in a row). You mentioned last season earlier. No other center (Wood -1.3, Maxi -2.8, McGee -7.4) could say that. I don't know why people insist on taking shots at Powell. It is constant and the reason other people feel compelled to defend him. If we win the minutes he plays, it's a good thing. Thank God we finally have another center whose minutes we also win.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - Mavs2021 - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 10:05 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Actually Net Rating is the only thing that matters to...you know...actually winning. Cause to win you actually have to score points and get stops at crucial points in the game.
No it´s not the only thing that matters, cause it´s an average rating of all your games played against varying degrees of opposition with varying degrees of playing partners. By your logic I find five players that have a positive net rating, play each 48 MPG and they´ll go 82-0 regardless of the opponents quality.
Sometimes you have to apply some common sense to interpret numbers like when Luka has started all games, Kyrie has started all games he played (8 of 10) and Dwight Powell has started one game, all I need is to check whether Kyrie has played in the game Powell started to know they must have played together. Also common sense tells me that if Luka plays 36 MPG, Kyrie plays 34 MPG and Powell plays 19 MPG, it´s highly likely that the minutes of the three will have overlapped at some point in a 48 minute game, considering that they all play different positions.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - mvossman - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 10:27 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: And that right there is the key number.
Also sadly Maxi has been a huge problem this season, but he still has a good reputation around the league as an impactful defender, when healthy. Question is whether he´ll ever be healthy again.
I think if the Mavs use their 2027 1st round pick it will be with Maxi/Holmes not THJ.
So the crux of your argument is a 41 minute sample? I kind of get the Powell bashing when he was starting, but it makes a lot less sense now. It will be interesting if we do acquire a typical backup center who can rebound and protect the paint a little better than Powell. I wonder if folks will praise that player as what we really needed as our net rating in those minutes goes down.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - The Jom - 11-14-2023
Careful there, dude. You have a point about Dwight’s D. But Dan isn’t illogical and you sound really extreme in attacking his valid counterpoints.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - HoosierDaddyKid - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 01:21 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Great listen here for all my Powell haters.So you're saying Luka and Kyrie are good defenders?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LiG7L1pZjo
Top 5 ranked defense with Luka + Kyrie + Lively on.
30th ranked defense when Lively is off.
It´s so obvious watching the team. We´d basically be the same team as last year, if not for Lively, which shows you all those advanced stats for Powell are pretty empty.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - mvossman - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 10:55 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: No it´s not the only thing that matters, cause it´s an average rating of all your games played against varying degrees of opposition with varying degrees of playing partners. By your logic I find five players that have a positive net rating, play each 48 MPG and they´ll go 82-0 regardless of the opponents quality.
Sometimes you have to apply some common sense to interpret numbers like when Luka has started all games, Kyrie has started all games he played (8 of 10) and Dwight Powell has started one game, all I need is to check whether Kyrie has played in the game Powell started to know they must have played together. Also common sense tells me that if Luka plays 36 MPG, Kyrie plays 34 MPG and Powell plays 19 MPG, it´s highly likely that the minutes of the three will have overlapped at some point in a 48 minute game, considering that they all play different positions.
This is the whole point of advanced stats like EPM and DPM. They look at who was on the court when that player was on the court, both teammates and opponents. On off numbers are very noisy (especially in the sample sizes you are using to make your point) so they include some box score stats to help stabilize the numbers. You would think using box score stats would kill Powell as he does not get the rebound or block numbers folks are looking for. And yet year after year (read large sample) his numbers suggest he has a much better impact on the court than folks give him credit for. He is a very limited player with a high motor and a high BBIQ. He doesn't turn the ball over, sets great screens, is crazy efficient on offense and plays good P&R defense. All of that helps to offset his limitations rebounding and rim defense. It seems like a decent tradeoff for a backup center making 4 mil a year.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - Mavs2021 - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 11:06 AM)The Jom Wrote: Careful there, dude. You have a point about Dwight’s D. But Dan isn’t illogical and you sound really extreme in attacking his valid counterpoints.
Numbers are just raw data. If I played with Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Lebron James and Wilt Chamberlain against five Dwight Powell´s we´d win every game by 50 points. Does that mean I´m a better basketball player than Dwight Powell, cause my net rating would sure look very sexy.
My basic stat line would probably look like 0/0/0/0/0 with eight turnovers. 90% of the points scored by the Dwights were on me, but eye test and basic stats are generally overrated analytical tools.
I can see what Powell brings to the table. I don´t need a positive or negative net rating to tell me that. He´s good defending in space. He works hard. He rarely makes mistakes and keeping the defense connected, but he offers zero rim protection (pyhsically or psychologically) or rebounding against fundamentally elite level opposition. And with the Mavs he is not helped by the fact that we generally are always on the smalller unathletic side to begin with.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - ItsGoTime - 11-14-2023
Powell is a C because of his offensive skillset. Problem is on defense, Powell is a hustling PF. That is why he and Maxi were such a great combo early in their career. Maxi made up for the rim protection that Powell lacked and rebounding against bench bigs was easier than against the starters. Maxi plays defense like an offball shot blocking PF.
Problem has always been (with both) when they go up against players that play with force. For all the bulk the two have, they are really weak at keeping bigs from getting to the spot they want to go. I think this is what Nico was referring to. That is also not a Lively strength either. This is why I would love to get Stewart as a Maxi replacement. Although lately I’ve been thinking about rehashing the Collins campaign, now that his shot seems to be back on track.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - mvossman - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 11:26 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Numbers are just raw data. If I played with Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Lebron James and Wilt Chamberlain against five Dwight Powell´s we´d win every game by 50 points. Does that mean I´m a better basketball player than Dwight Powell, cause my net rating would sure look very sexy.
My basic stat line would probably look like 0/0/0/0/0 with eight turnovers. 90% of the points scored by the Dwights were on me, but eye test and basic stats are generally overrated analytical tools.
I can see what Powell brings to the table. I don´t need a positive or negative net rating to tell me that. He´s good defending in space. He works hard. He rarely makes mistakes and keeping the defense connected, but he offers zero rim protection (pyhsically or psychologically) or rebounding against fundamentally elite level opposition. And with the Mavs he is not helped by the fact that we generally are always on the smalller unathletic side to begin with.
While its not a good idea to focus entirely on analytics, is also not a good idea to focus entirely on the "eye test". Its not only that none of us are NBA scouts, but the really hard part is to determine how important certain skills are on the court. Your last paragraph is a fairly good assessment of who Powell is as a player, but what does that mean? How big are those tradeoffs? I was a long time Powell hater as he looks like he gets regularly abused on the defensive end and doesn't do much but occasionally dunk on the offensive end. It took a long time for analytics to convince me that he provides more value than what the eye test suggests.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - SleepingHero - 11-14-2023
Quote:https://twitter.com/GrantAfseth/status/1724170682152423591
I asked Josh Green about the impact Kyrie Irving has made with the bench lineups given their recent success. Green praised Irving's leadership and commitment to competing for a championship.
"He's been an amazing leader this year. Even last year coming in, but overall, just being around him brings everybody up. He's a great teammate. He's been amazing to work with. He works very hard. It's a lot of things that people don't see behind the scenes, and he does all the things right — a professional guy — really good for our younger guys, but also our older guys, too.
"I think he's really bought into the system. He really wants to win a championship and does all the right things to show us he wants to."
Hearing Josh continue to say nice things about Kyrie makes me happy. I have PTSD that something may go wrong but so far I may have to eat all the crow in the entire universe.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - Mavs2021 - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 11:45 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: https://twitter.com/GrantAfseth/status/1724170682152423591
I asked Josh Green about the impact Kyrie Irving has made with the bench lineups given their recent success. Green praised Irving's leadership and commitment to competing for a championship.
"He's been an amazing leader this year. Even last year coming in, but overall, just being around him brings everybody up. He's a great teammate. He's been amazing to work with. He works very hard. It's a lot of things that people don't see behind the scenes, and he does all the things right — a professional guy — really good for our younger guys, but also our older guys, too.
"I think he's really bought into the system. He really wants to win a championship and does all the right things to show us he wants to."
That´s great to hear. Let´s hope it stays that way. Also it seems pretty obvious what the key is here. Aussie mates. In Cleveland he had Dellavedova. It wasn´t LeBron that kept Kyrie sane. It was Crocodile Dova. Now he has Josh and Exum. Let´s plan the parade.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - mvossman - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 11:45 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Hearing Josh continue to say nice things about Kyrie makes me happy. I have PTSD that something may go wrong but so far I may have to eat all the crow in the entire universe.
I think if we have issues with Kyrie, it wont be in the locker room. For some reason I am less worried about it than I probably should be. Maybe its the contract he signed.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - KillerLeft - 11-14-2023
(11-13-2023, 11:34 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: https://newsletter.threefourtwo.com/p/dwight-powell-dallas-mavericks
Great read on Powell here for all my Powell supporters.
Also an opportunity to say you should absolutely give the dunkers spot a listen if you haven’t. The content these guys put out is pretty great.
This was a great read - thanks for posting!
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 11-14-2023
https://x.com/sherlot21/status/1724449231765967174?s=46
Oh?
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - BigDirk41 - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 01:13 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: https://x.com/sherlot21/status/1724449231765967174?s=46
Oh?
That's crazy is true. Good for Luka.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - SleepingHero - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 01:13 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: https://x.com/sherlot21/status/1724449231765967174?s=46
Oh?
The text for those who don't have twitter and can't see the tweet:
Quote:A nice nugget from
@dunkerspotpod (https://twitter.com/dunkerspotpod)
, Luka Doncic has defended the most iso possessions in the league this year and in those possessions, opposing teams are scoring just 0.83 points per po
ssession, which is elite defensively
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs last in NBA in PIP, but first in our hearts - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 02:37 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: The text for those who don't have twitter and can't see the tweet:
Ah ya thanks for that. Always forget the preview doesn't work anymore.