(09-23-2023, 02:00 PM)mvossman Wrote: I doubt they are coming out of the gate starting two rookies.  I focus more on the first quote where he said they will try different combinations with their core three (Luka, Kyrie and Williams).  It does sound like Green does not have a guaranteed starting spot.

(09-23-2023, 11:18 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: Jason Kidd bringing a new twist to his unique style of NBA coaching incompetence.  He is asserting that two rookies who have not yet played an NBA game nor even had an NBA practice are in line to start over multiple proven veterans.

(09-24-2023, 01:12 AM)F Gump Wrote: Not how I heard it.

From the hype, I listened to this pod expecting news. But it seemed liked basic coach-speak to me.

I came away thinking Kidd was simply being a coach in the time-honored tradition of pumping up players and fans about possibilities as a season is coming. So I can't put a lot of stock in any of it.

(09-24-2023, 08:13 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: Ya lots of folks here seem to miss he was talking about preseason…

(09-24-2023, 10:33 AM)omahen Wrote: Edit: one could draw many similarities regarding Green situation with how they handled Brunson. Sure Green is RFA and they have more control, but still. I think players also value if teams value them. Can we say that about Mavs in the Green situation? I am ok if they see him as just a role player in the long term. But does he sees himself the same or he wants more. If yes, wouldn't it make more sense to trade him than risk having an unhappy player that might be looking more for a situation where the team would value him in a similar way than he does. Of course, on the other hand, it is totally possible that Green himself doesn't see himself as more than a role player. I think the outcome of the negotiations will tell us a lot about that.

(09-24-2023, 12:30 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: AND, honestly, having a guy off the bench focused on getting obscene amounts of buckets is a pretty consistently helpful thing, historically.

(09-24-2023, 12:27 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Great post and I agree, overall. 

I agree with the edit I quoted, too, but (and this isn't aimed at you, really) I keep seeing worry that Green is "Brunson all over again." I am not worried. 

It's not a problem that they're negotiating with Green like they negotiated with Brunson. It's actually smart. Green is not a player you want on your books if he's paid more than he should be. The problem WAS that they treated Brunson like a Green. The Brunson problem wasn't how they negotiated, it was that they incorrectly evaluated the player with whom they were negotiating. They should've been willing to offer a Kyrie-level contract to him, and honestly, probably should've led with that. His own team didn't realize how great (and I mean GREAT) he was. 

The playbook they ran in the Brunson negotiations is actually appropriately purposed in the Green situation, imo. He's the type you want back, but only on your terms.

(09-24-2023, 01:18 PM)omahen Wrote: I think there is huge difference between elite 6th man bucket getters (Crawford, Williams, Herro) and THJ in a sense they are able to create on their own with high efficiency. They were only 6th men because of their suspect defense. When THJ is creating, his efficiency is bad.

(09-24-2023, 01:31 PM)omahen Wrote: I think it is very similar. Brunson wasn't convincing a season before his last one with Mavs. Many doubts among fans what he will become. Than he had a breakout season and was dissapointed Mavs never really believed in him. Green is basically in same position as Brunson was before his last season with Mavs. 

(09-23-2023, 11:18 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: Jason Kidd bringing a new twist to his unique style of NBA coaching incompetence.  He is asserting that two rookies who have not yet played an NBA game nor even had an NBA practice are in line to start over multiple proven veterans.  This is not merely insulting to Josh Green but also to the other vets who have played their best for the Mavericks over the past several years-  Maxi Kleber, THJ and Dwight Powell.  He is actually making starting lineup decisions based on his male intuition!

It is often difficult to determine which side of Jason Kidd is speaking-  is it the cognitively challenged moron within him?  Or is it the condescending sociopath?  I just can't recall another NBA head coach who made important decisions based upon exactly nothing.  I have also never seen a professional coach routinely insult his own players.   

I suspect Kidd has some recordings of Mark Cuban saying some really stupid things and is using those to maintain his position.  Otherwise, it is incredible that Jason Kidd remains the Mavericks head coach with all the terrible nonsense he has said and done over the past year

(09-24-2023, 01:12 AM)F Gump Wrote: Not how I heard it.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-saturday-stein-line-with-marc-stein-september-23/id1696632485?i=1000628930446  The talk about rookies starts at about 20:10.

From the hype, I listened to this pod expecting news. But it seemed liked basic coach-speak to me.

While Kidd talked up the rookies, I heard him positively speak about every player Stein asked about, no negative on any possibility for anyone, and he may have ended up mentioning and praising every player.

So I can't put a lot of stock in any of it.

(09-24-2023, 10:15 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Thanks for posting this.  I have slightly different interpretations on a couple of things, but those tweets and the early reaction to them were not in alignment with what was said.  The last line above is probably the most important since Kidd hasn’t even had a practice yet.

I think they think they have two very talented rookies they want to develop.  You can’t bring them along together (in the lineup at the same time) and expect to win.  I think part of the logic of maybe starting a rookie is so both can get minutes…just not simultaneously.  

Kidd made it fairly clear Josh and OMax are probably competing for a starting spot.  It wouldn’t shock me if OMax got the nod.  It won’t necessarily be because he’s better than some of the other options as much as it will be a great place to hide him alongside The Big Three and a center.  There is enough O on the floor with Luka, Kyrie and GWill hitting over 40% from the corner and a lob threat that OMax hitting 3’s is a luxury and not a necessity.  That might not be the case alongside backups.  Starting and getting only 18 minutes would certainly be a possibility.

He did say positive things about everyone he spoke about, but he didn’t speak about everyone.  No mention of Hardy or Curry.  After inferring Josh and OMax would compete to start and after talking about there being three centers, he mentioned Exum, DJJ and Maxi and talked about SMOTY Hardaway.  That’s 11 players if you only count two of the three centers.  It is certainly possible there is no meaning to who he mentioned and who he didn’t.  Or, maybe the 11 who were mentioned are the top 11.  I was encouraged that they seem committed to working Lively and OMax in and that Kidd and Nico seem to be on the same page.  I’m probably more interested in how players will be used and whether Luka and Kyrie will get more time together or not than who starts the first month of the season.  I could care less who Kidd wants to start in pre-season and don’t see anything in his interview with Stein that should have raised the ire it raised here prior to your post.