+- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: MAVS NEWS: Luka Wins Community Cares Award! | DLive's Mom Passes Away| Maxi OUT (/showthread.php?tid=2172)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - KillerLeft - 09-07-2023
(09-07-2023, 12:41 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Question 1: Is Lebron 4th in career assists?
Question 2: Is Lebron a forward?
Question 3: Is Luka Lebron-like on offense?
Question 4: Are we able to play 2 guards with Luka?
Question 5: What position usually guards Luka?
Question 6: What position does Luka usually guard?
My Answers: Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, SF, SF (obvious conclusion = Luka is a Point Forward)
Point is a role. Position is different. You can be a point from PG, SF, PF, or C as Magic, Marques Johnson, Paul Pressey, Pippen, Lebron, Joker, and YES LUKA have proven.
Luka is our Point SF. With him on the court, we almost always have 2 guards.
The answer to number 3 is NO, at least to the extent that you intend. Because, Luka plays PG full time, and Lebron does not.
You can believe whatever you want, Rashad Phillips. Just please don’t reply to me about it.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-07-2023
(09-07-2023, 02:10 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: The answer to number 3 is NO, at least to the extent that you intend. Because, Luka plays PG full time, and Lebron does not.
You can believe whatever you want, Rashad Phillips. Just please don’t reply to me about it.
You're saying Lebron didn't play primarily from the point for LAL in 2019/2020, leading the NBA with 10.2 assists?
Granted, yes, Lebron has played some roles as a traditional forward in his 19 seasons. He has, however, played many times as a point forward, whatever makes sense with his current roster. In CLE with Mo Williams, he played from the point. In MIA he played from the point. After Kyrie left, he played from the point in CLE. As stated
You are correct that Luka has played from the point his entire career. He will have to be more flexible and play off the ball much more with Kyrie, as Lebron does.
Question: When Luka plays off the ball, letting Kyrie play from the point, will he be playiing like a forward or a guard?
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - DallasMaverick - 09-07-2023
(09-07-2023, 03:49 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: You're saying Lebron didn't play primarily from the point for LAL in 2019/2020, leading the NBA with 10.2 assists?
Granted, yes, Lebron has played some roles as a traditional forward in his 19 seasons. He has, however, played many times as a point forward, whatever makes sense with his current roster. In CLE with Mo Williams, he played from the point. In MIA he played from the point. After Kyrie left, he played from the point in CLE. As stated
You are correct that Luka has played from the point his entire career. He will have to be more flexible and play off the ball much more with Kyrie, as Lebron does.
Question: When Luka plays off the ball, letting Kyrie play from the point, will he be playiing like a forward or a guard?
This whole “slotting” thing drives me crazy.
We need to acquire a “3rd-best starter” instead of the bunch of 5th-9th-best types we have.
Until we get a “true center”, we’re hopelessly doomed to mediocrity.
Until we get an “experienced winning coach”, we’ll be a play-in team.
…and on and on it goes…
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - KillerLeft - 09-07-2023
(09-07-2023, 03:49 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: You're saying Lebron didn't play primarily from the point for LAL in 2019/2020, leading the NBA with 10.2 assists?
I'm saying please, please never reply to me or attempt to engage with me in any conversation for any reason, whatsoever. I'm a mod, so I wouldn't really be doing my job if I put someone on ignore. And, I'm not trying to be hurtful. I'm just asking as clearly and directly as I can, please go argue with someone else. You'll find plenty of people around here who want to argue all day long.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-07-2023
(09-06-2023, 12:10 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Incorrect. He's the PG.
On defense, he plays forward, for sure. Not always the 3, though. He plays the 4 quite a bit, too.
But, the guy with the ball in his hands (above the break, and even bringing the ball up) 97% of the time IS, FACTUALLY, the point guard.
Welp, I didn't pick you out of random. You replied to me. Don't want to converse? Don't reply. Dude, I simply asked you questions about your position. You made a statement that couldn't stand up to scrutiny. May I suggest not taking yourself so seriously and not trying to prove something correct to all ends. Many times I'll make a statement here and someone has a more correct view, to which I'll correct myself. Hell, a lot of what I post are questions because I want to learn. This is a fan forum about freaking basketball. This is not important, or at least to me given I have a life. Just a distraction, buddy. We're not curing cancer.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - KillerLeft - 09-07-2023
(09-07-2023, 05:48 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: This is not important, or at least to me given I have a life. Just a distraction, buddy. We're not curing cancer.
Good, so we agree, and you'll have no issue steering clear of me in the future. Thanks for understanding. I can imagine us both enjoying our lives more already!
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-07-2023
(09-07-2023, 05:55 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Good, so we agree, and you'll have no issue steering clear of me in the future. Thanks for understanding. I can imagine us both enjoying our lives more already!
To be honest I don't notice who it is I'm replying to. I'm just not into the social aspects here, lol.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - KillerLeft - 09-07-2023
(09-07-2023, 06:29 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: To be honest I don't notice who it is I'm replying to. I'm just not into the social aspects here, lol.
Yeah, I know, buddy. Reading names is tough. Still, I've asked nicely. Now I'm asking again: PLEASE?
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Benskix2 - 09-07-2023
(09-07-2023, 03:49 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: You're saying Lebron didn't play primarily from the point for LAL in 2019/2020, leading the NBA with 10.2 assists?
Granted, yes, Lebron has played some roles as a traditional forward in his 19 seasons. He has, however, played many times as a point forward, whatever makes sense with his current roster. In CLE with Mo Williams, he played from the point. In MIA he played from the point. After Kyrie left, he played from the point in CLE. As stated
You are correct that Luka has played from the point his entire career. He will have to be more flexible and play off the ball much more with Kyrie, as Lebron does.
Question: When Luka plays off the ball, letting Kyrie play from the point, will he be playiing like a forward or a guard?
Basketball reference says Lebron James played 57% of his minutes at the PG position in 2019/2020. Point forward isn't a real position.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - DanSchwartzgan - 09-09-2023
The NBA Podcast did a preview on the Southwest Division and Dallas is the first team they do. Good balanced view from the outside. Green vs. THJ. What Dallas will do at Center. They pretty well nail the things to be optimistic about and the things to worry about (they include Kidd in the latter grouping…”he’s a boob”).
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-nba-podcast/id1102094287?i=1000627193786
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - HoosierDaddyKid - 09-09-2023
(09-09-2023, 12:42 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: The NBA Podcast did a preview on the Southwest Division and Dallas is the first team they do. Good balanced view from the outside. Green vs. THJ. What Dallas will do at Center. They pretty well nail the things to be optimistic about and the things to worry about (they include Kidd in the latter grouping…”he’s a boob”).
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-nba-podcast/id1102094287?i=1000627193786
Thanks for the link.. He's spot on about this season with Kidd at the helm". Like the Public Enemy song, "Can't Truss it."
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-11-2023
(09-07-2023, 07:40 PM)Benskix2 Wrote: Basketball reference says Lebron James played 57% of his minutes at the PG position in 2019/2020. Point forward isn't a real position.
Huh? Not a real position? https://bleacherreport.com/articles/711952-nba-power-rankings-lebron-james-and-the-15-greatest-point-forwards-of-all-time
Q: When Lebron and Luka aren't playing from the point, what position do you say they're playing?
A: SF/PF
Joker plays from the point, right? You consider him a PG?
Point is a role. Positions are PG, SG, SF, PF, & C. You can play from the point in any of the 5 positions. Joker. Pippen. Wilt. Draymond. Luka. Lebron. Bird. Magic (comeback was a PF). B.Simmons. Giannis. Durant. Walton. A.Sabonis. They all played significant time at the point. None of them are guards.
The only reason this matters is that you Luka fills our need for a starting SF. You can start him with 2 guards (Kyrie/J.Green). As I stated before, I'd love a T.Eason/OG type of SF who can be our POA defender, starting 2 SFs instead of 2 guards.
Kyrie
T.Eason/OG
Luka
G.Williams
Lively
https://www.sportslingo.com/sports-glossary/p/point-forward/
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-11-2023
(09-09-2023, 12:42 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: The NBA Podcast did a preview on the Southwest Division and Dallas is the first team they do. Good balanced view from the outside. Green vs. THJ. What Dallas will do at Center. They pretty well nail the things to be optimistic about and the things to worry about (they include Kidd in the latter grouping…”he’s a boob”).
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-nba-podcast/id1102094287?i=1000627193786
What a great podcast. I liked it so much I listened to the whole thing. Thank you for sharing.
My assertion that Luka is our starting SF was timely. They talked about how "guard heavy" DAL is with Luka and 2 guards. What area of Luka's game isn't a SF playing from the point? He checks every SF box, just like Joker checks every C box.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-11-2023
Insane how similar Luka's 5th year is to Lebron's...
BY YEAR TEAM GP MIN PTS FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% OREB DREB REB AST TOV STL BLK
2007-08 CLE 75 40.4 30 10.6 21.9 48.4 1.5 4.8 31.5 7.3 10.3 71.2 1.8 6.1 7.9 7.2 3.4 1.8 1.1
2022-23 DAL 66 36.2 32.4 10.9 22 49.6 2.8 8.2 34.2 7.8 10.5 74.2 0.8 7.8 8.6 8 3.6 1.4 0.5
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Benskix2 - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 10:08 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Huh? Not a real position? https://bleacherreport.com/articles/711952-nba-power-rankings-lebron-james-and-the-15-greatest-point-forwards-of-all-time
Q: When Lebron and Luka aren't playing from the point, what position do you say they're playing?
A: SF/PF
Joker plays from the point, right? You consider him a PG?
Point is a role. Positions are PG, SG, SF, PF, & C. You can play from the point in any of the 5 positions. Joker. Pippen. Wilt. Draymond. Luka. Lebron. Bird. Magic (comeback was a PF). B.Simmons. Giannis. Durant. Walton. A.Sabonis. They all played significant time at the point. None of them are guards.
The only reason this matters is that you Luka fills our need for a starting SF. You can start him with 2 guards (Kyrie/J.Green). As I stated before, I'd love a T.Eason/OG type of SF who can be our POA defender, starting 2 SFs instead of 2 guards.
Kyrie
T.Eason/OG
Luka
G.Williams
Lively
https://www.sportslingo.com/sports-glossary/p/point-forward/
I don't think it's useful to add the word point to the front of every position just because the guy playing the position can handle the ball. Joker plays 100% of his minutes at the center position. He doesn't bring the ball up the court on dead balls, and being able to dribble and pass at a high level doesn't make you the point guard.
You can say point is a role, but guard and forward are not roles, they are specific positions on the court, and Luka spends almost none of his minutes offensively in the positions that are traditionally occupied by a forward, and asking your best player to change positions would a very unusual strategy.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-12-2023
(09-11-2023, 09:17 PM)Benskix2 Wrote: I don't think it's useful to add the word point to the front of every position just because the guy playing the position can handle the ball. Joker plays 100% of his minutes at the center position. He doesn't bring the ball up the court on dead balls, and being able to dribble and pass at a high level doesn't make you the point guard.
You can say point is a role, but guard and forward are not roles, they are specific positions on the court, and Luka spends almost none of his minutes offensively in the positions that are traditionally occupied by a forward, and asking your best player to change positions would a very unusual strategy.
We're really close to agreeing. "Point" is an offensive role like "post" or "stretch". Brunson (like Marc Jackson before him) scores from the post a lot. Like playing from the point as a forward or center, this unusual role for a PG causes huge matchup problems. How many guards know how to guard from the post? Dirk was 100% PF, but he unusually would stretch the defense from his outside shooting. Did that make him a guard? No, he was a stretch big, which wasn't a thing until Dirk, at least not at his level of effectiveness. Luka and Lebron are no as point forwards.
Let's put it this way. For those on this board who watch an inordinate amount of Mavs, is there any doubt that Luka normally plays with a PG, SG, PF, and C? Just process of elimination makes him a SF.
Again, none of this matters (is only labels) except for surrounding Luka with the best possible supporting cast. That is a PG, SG, PF, and C. We do not need a starting SF because Luka checks every single box of a SF, PLUS he plays from the point.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - omahen - 09-13-2023
Interesting piece. Of course we can argue ad nauseam about the methodology that put some very interesting names on the list. Still, the bit about THJ shines some light why Mavs can't find a taker for him. From the piece:
In 2022-23, Tim Hardaway Jr. averaged 14.4 points and 3.5 rebounds on 40.1 percent shooting (38.5 percent from three) while appearing in 71 games for the Dallas Mavericks, earning $19.6 million for the campaign. According to Real Value, those contributions were worth $9.6 million, meaning our metric believes Dallas overpaid Hardaway Jr. by roughly $10.0 million. Hardaway Jr. is a solid player, an outside shooter with athleticism who can get hot from three from time to time, but he’s too inconsistent of a sniper to be beloved be the advanced metrics. He also doesn’t contribute much outside of his three-point shooting, which isn’t even elite.
https://hoopshype.com/lists/most-overpaid-nba-players-of-all-time/
JamesConway912 - JamesConway912 - 09-13-2023
Fair assessment, he hasn’t been the player he was under Carlisle for a while now. Also a very suspect fit at SG now that we have Irving locked up alongside Luka. Unfortunately he doesn’t appear to have a lot of value around the league otherwise he would have been traded already.
Looking back the extension was a blunder. Very unfortunate. I didn’t think it would end like this given they even were able to frontload his contract and his play right before the new deal.
RE: JamesConway912 - omahen - 09-13-2023
(09-13-2023, 03:42 AM)JamesConway912 Wrote: Fair assessment, he hasn’t been the player he was under Carlisle for a while now. Also a very suspect fit at SG now that we have Irving locked up alongside Luka. Unfortunately he doesn’t appear to have a lot of value around the league otherwise he would have been traded already.
Looking back the extension was a blunder. Very unfortunate. I didn’t think it would end like this given they even were able to frontload his contract and his play right before the new deal.
I would say that Kidd tried to use him differently than Carlisle did, which resulted in a worse result. Carlisle correctly recognized that THJ is best used as a spot up shooter where his quick release and high jump shot enables high amount of attempts at an above average percentage, unlike slow releasing guys like Maxi and DFS. As soon as you want THJ to do more than that, his efficiency plummets. Since there was plenty of data about that before Kidd started in Dallas, it is a big question why Kidd tried someting that was proven as not really great before. Imho, Carlisle was good in recognizing the strengths and limitations of his players and put them in positions where they contributed at best. But since the team was limited, so were the results. At the end of the day, you need more than just a bunch of one dimensional guys.
Kidd on the other hand, recognized the limitations of Mavs plays and the need for more skills in specific roles. But, the mistake was to try to use the players in roles they were not able to play. Everything went right in first Kidd season as a lot of players had performances of their careers in that playoffs run. Most importantly, Mavs had three players able to create for themselves and others, something Mavs didn't remedy ever since. Unfortunately, that successful run might have blinded Mavs from the reality of what they really have, which strike hard the very next season, along with a disastrous offseason. Perhaps Mavs just didn't have any other choice but ask THJ to do more on-ball after Brunson was gone and no replacement was brought instead of him. The problem of third creator will continue for Mavs, unless Green and Hardy make significant steps forward.
THJ can be a solid player in right environment. Problem is, as we have discussed here for a long time, that he doesn't fit next to Luka and Kyrie. Even though his defense improved in last season, Mavs unfortunately need way above average defenders next to their stars. Something, THJ is just not able to bring. Again, Mavs will be facing tough dillemas where to put THJ. Offensively, his best plays are coming of playing next to Luka, where he gets best catch and shoot opportunities and he contributes in spacing the floor greatly. But, you can forget about any kind of great team defense playing him next to Luka and Kyrie. If you play him of the bench, he will be far less efficient on offense. But, since he is on the roster, Mavs will have to play him instead of some other options that are better fits. Green is a better defender and fits far nicely next to Luka and Kyrie in the starting line-up. Hardy and Curry can both do more with the ball (way more efficient than THJ) and are better fits coming from the bench, even though they are worse defenders.
It seems like THJ doesn't have a market now. At least not one that wouldn't require assets. So, what is the best way forward:
a) recognize THJ doesn't fit on the team as it is and play better players in the respective roles? THJ value would plummet but results will likely be better (and some younger guys will have more minutes to develop) or
b) play THJ despite the wrong fit. Offense will be great and he will put up good numbers, but results will likely be worse, as defense will be bad (and some younger guys will get less developmental minutes). At some point there might be someone that needs more offense who would find value in him.
c) eat the bullet and trade him despite it requires some assets. Example like THJ+2027 for Capela (as he is a center that was most often mentioned as potentially available). Option "a" with a better center at the cost of 2027 pick.
One thing to note. Value of some offense first guys really plummeted. Oubre averaged over 20 ppg last season, and it seems he can't get more than vet min. A very similar player like Fournier was "exiled" in New York, because the coach thinks they can have better results without him (he chose the option "a" from the above). NY can't find a willing taker for Fournier for two years now.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - KillerLeft - 09-13-2023
I agree that on the whole, Hardaway was better under Carlisle than he has been under Kidd, but I feel like you can say that about Kleber, DFS, Powell and honestly, even Luka. I think Carlisle is just a flat out better tactician and therefore better at playing to the strengths of his players. If Kidd is an improvement in any area, it’s probably helping players to expand their games/roles, and that’s good, but unfortunately comes at the cost of maximum efficiency, especially when ALL of the players are trying to do more.
In Hardaway’s case, I’m surprised people feel this way today, because while he did struggle the first year under Kidd (post injury) he was actually really good in the back half of last season, and with better defense. I honestly don’t believe the problem with moving him was that nobody wanted him, but that the Mavs were trying to force the McGee deal into every offer they made involving THJ, and they of course were also trying to acquire some very specific things in exchange. I don’t believe the goal was “get rid of him at all costs” like it was with McGee, and I’m glad, because he can actually help this team.