(09-04-2023, 04:23 AM)omahen Wrote: Let’s say Greens current status value is 10 points. Let’s say that at this point Greens additional value because of potential is another 10 points. So what happens in a year is, that part of that potential value will either transfer to current status value, because player will improve, or it will disappear, because there will be no improvement and evaluation of potential will change.

(09-01-2023, 04:19 PM)SamStetz Wrote: https://twitter.com/CBAMavs/status/1697662274209468776?s=20

(09-02-2023, 06:29 AM)surfpuckmd Wrote: As a final point, Josh Green has demonstrated that he can be more productive when it's needed.  We really don't want him taking the ball away from Luka or Kyrie.  In games last season when Luka didn't play however, Josh Green had the following averages:

15.7 ppg        4.3  rpg      3.5 apg

That's pretty good production when we needed it.

(09-04-2023, 11:04 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: You make two good points here.  These numbers are similar to what Green puts up any time he gets 30 minutes (which was about 1/3 of his games last season).  He doesn’t need to take a leap.  He just needs opportunity.  

Your other good point is he knows his role.  Some mistakenly call this passivity.  Your numbers indicate he’s appropriately deferring to our two All-NBA level players when they are playing and appropriately showing more when they aren’t.  It is pretty much exactly what you’d want out of a youngster who projects to be a high level role player.

(09-04-2023, 11:04 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Your other good point is he knows his role.  Some mistakenly call this passivity.  Your numbers indicate he’s appropriately deferring to our two All-NBA level players when they are playing and appropriately showing more when they aren’t.  It is pretty much exactly what you’d want out of a youngster who projects to be a high level role player.

(09-04-2023, 11:04 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: You make two good points here.  These numbers are similar to what Green puts up any time he gets 30 minutes (which was about 1/3 of his games last season).  He doesn’t need to take a leap.  He just needs opportunity.  

Your other good point is he knows his role.  Some mistakenly call this passivity.  Your numbers indicate he’s appropriately deferring to our two All-NBA level players when they are playing and appropriately showing more when they aren’t.  It is pretty much exactly what you’d want out of a youngster who projects to be a high level role player.

(09-03-2023, 11:21 PM)The Jom Wrote: This “don’t overpay” argument sounds eerily familiar. I think it was Brunson. And I think the numbers tossed around here were 18 and 20 million/year. If this board thinks about 12 million for Josh, that makes me think it’ll be at least 18.

(09-04-2023, 03:40 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: but also a personality problem

(09-05-2023, 08:53 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: The only meaningful difference here is that the Mavs cannot possibly lose Green unless Cuban really is cheap. RFA guarantees that.

(09-05-2023, 09:25 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: IMO, J.Green will get the Hart deal of 4yrs/$80.  Not as good of a defender at this point.  Will never be the rebounder Hart is.  But he's 6 years younger.

My only question is can we pay him that with 2 max players in Luka/Kyrie?

(09-05-2023, 09:39 AM)mvossman Wrote: This is not entirely true.  Green could decide he does not like our offer or any other offer and take the qualifying offer to be unrestricted the following year.  Its probably unlikely in Green's case, but a possibility.

(09-05-2023, 09:40 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Age rarely, if ever, makes a meaningful impact in salary negotiations. It's the actual talent that drives up the numbers. Age amplifies the talent, but there has to be talent there. 

As many have said, Green has shown to be a great role player. He's inconsistent, but that's why he's a role player. He has barely shown enough to warrant a 4/60 deal, let alone a 4/80 deal.

If anything Green is around the same level as Hart was when he got his first big deal from NOP after averaging 8/4/1 on 43/36/70 in 24mpg. That deal was worth 3 years/38 mil, but only 24 mil guaranteed. Green is more efficient and a bit younger when Hart signed his deal...

That deal at the time was worth about 11% of the overall cap YoY. Translating that into today, thats starting at 14.9 mil (almost right at his qualifying over). A similar deal would be 4/66 with 8% raises and only 52 mil guaranteed.

(09-05-2023, 10:30 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Sorry, I didn't explain the age thing.  At 22yo, it's implied that J.Green will continue to progress and get better.

Great analysis in kicking Hart's deal into todays numbers.  Ya, I'd say that's fair, with 4/80 being the ceiling.

What are your thoughts if J.Green wants >=$20m/per?

(09-05-2023, 12:16 PM)omahen Wrote: Interesting analysis. They ranked starters of each team on each position. Here is where Mavs are according to this:
PG: Luka, #2 (behind Curry)
SG: Irving, #5
SF: THJ, #27
PF: GW, #26
C: Powell, #29 (only Hayes ranked lower)

https://theathletic.com/4811677/2023/09/05/nba-position-group-rankings-2023/

(09-05-2023, 12:53 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Athletic keeps up their habit at making poorly made rankings.

The writer makes a statement that injuries are taken into account but proceeds to put the most injury prone SG at 3rd (PG). Is Paul George really better than Booker and Kyrie? He also justifies it by saying that the Clips have Norman Powell to back him up so it makes sense.   

THJ is not the 27th best starting SF in the league behind guys like Dillon Brooks (24th) and Harrison Barnes (14th) and Gordan Hayward (19th). Although I wouldn't rank him that much higher. Probably 20-24th. 

Grant Williams at 26 is also a bit laughable..? Saddiq Bey, Patrick Williams, Kevin Love, Isaiah Stewart, Deni Avdija are all objectively not better than Grant Williams. They also put 6'6 Jalen Williams for OKC who played a whopping total 1% of his minutes at PF as the 15th best PF... 

I don't think Grant Williams is a top 10 guy at his position, but bottom 4th is kind of insulting. 

Its fun to dog on Powell and say that he's the 2nd worst starting center in the league (and there are legitimate arguments for that), but to rank him behind guys like Zach Collins, James Wiseman, and Mark Williams is a bit of a stretch. 


Overall the Mavs aren't nearly as weighed down as these horribly made charts (seriously, 12 year olds could make easier to read charts) make them appear to be.

(09-05-2023, 01:09 PM)omahen Wrote: Not sure why you think the author took this exercise as a personal attack on Mavs. 

Based on what would you put THJ ahead of Brooks, Barnes and Hayward? Hayward is scoring a bit more, has more rebounds and assists while playing similar defense. Brooks is a worse offensive player but way better defender. Barnes is a steady 2-way player, scoring more on a better team and playing better defense. 

What would make GW better than Bey, Williams, Love, Stewart or Avdija? He was 8th or 9th guy on Boston. Nothing really puts him convincingly ahead of names mentioned. Sure we may hope he will show more in a bigger role, but at the moment that is just our hope.

Mark Williams, Collins and Wiseman (in Detroit) were better than Powell in probably every stat category, certainly key ones.

(09-05-2023, 01:38 PM)omahen Wrote: I was too quick going through that piece.  The author assessed the team total at each position, which is represented by the chosen starter. The starter weight on the score is roughly 70 %. Thats why George backed by Powell combo is 3rd in SG, for example. Of course each excercise like that is subjective to an extent. But, it gives us a picture, what a more or less objective author thinks about where Mavs are. To be honest, I am not at all interested in disecting each player and if he should be 25th or 26th on the list as I don't think it is that much important in a big picture.

(09-05-2023, 01:12 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Can someone post the total rankings?