(08-17-2023, 05:06 PM)The Jom Wrote: Starting in front of Thybulle? Gotta think that sets an obvious floor on contract negotiations, no?

(08-17-2023, 06:38 PM)chaparral Wrote: Maybe there is more to the Mavs Thybulle offer than we fans would know?

(08-17-2023, 10:31 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Powell with the 12 point, 12 board Double-Double in Canada's win over Spain.

(08-18-2023, 11:04 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Saw this on Reddit

O-Max looking good at the Rico Runs

In the latest piece by Truehoop coach Thorpe shares some observations from the pick up games. He writes:


Kenyon Martin Jr. was impressive as a pure athlete, as was Mavericks rookie Olivier-Maxence (“O-Max”) Prosper. The 22-year-old Martin Jr. and 21-year-old Prosper are going to be important players for two teams who have final-four aspirations. Said one longtime NBA coach in the UCLA student center: “I didn’t know Prosper was a rookie. I assumed he was a vet I just didn’t recognize at first after watching him play.”

(08-17-2023, 07:37 PM)Smitty Wrote: What do you mean? Are you suggesting they offered Thybulle the most they could because they know Green will cost more per year?

Even so, Green is younger and already better than Thybulle imo, and I’m a big fan of Thybulle. Green’s potential to be a 2-way starter next to Luka for the next 10 years is a big deal.

If I remember right, the offer to Thybulle was 3/33. Green should be around the MLE number like Grant Williams signed, 4/54, and rightfully so.

(08-21-2023, 01:10 AM)surfpuckmd Wrote: I hope the Mavericks will agree on an extension sooner rather than later.  That would complete an excellent off-season.  I believe Mark Cuban is probably still somewhat embarrassed about the Jalen Brunson failure.  I don't think he'll want to let Josh Green make it to free agency next summer.

(08-21-2023, 01:10 AM)surfpuckmd Wrote: I think Josh Green will get more money than Grant Williams.  I believe he's already a better overall player and he's younger.  In looking for a comparison for player value, I would choose Herb Jones.  I follow the Pelicans closely as well.  Jones is a better defender but Josh is a much better shooter.  They both handle the ball pretty well and can pass.  Herb is two years older.   I think Herb Jones is a slightly better overall player at this time but Green has the youth advantage.  That has value.

Herb signed a 4-year, $54 million extension this summer but that is misleading.  The Pelicans had a team option for this coming season at less than $2 million.  They decided to decline that and extend him instead.  Effectively, the Pelicans decided to Herb Jones is worth around $17 million per season.  I think that's fair as he's an elite role player and a high-character guy.  

I think Josh Green will end up making similar money.  I anticipate $16-18 million per year.  I hope the Mavericks will agree on an extension sooner rather than later.  That would complete an excellent off-season.  I believe Mark Cuban is probably still somewhat embarrassed about the Jalen Brunson failure.  I don't think he'll want to let Josh Green make it to free agency next summer.

(08-21-2023, 01:10 AM)surfpuckmd Wrote: I think Josh Green will get more money than Grant Williams.  I believe he's already a better overall player and he's younger.  In looking for a comparison for player value, I would choose Herb Jones.  I follow the Pelicans closely as well.  Jones is a better defender but Josh is a much better shooter.  They both handle the ball pretty well and can pass.  Herb is two years older.   I think Herb Jones is a slightly better overall player at this time but Green has the youth advantage.  That has value.

Herb signed a 4-year, $54 million extension this summer but that is misleading.  The Pelicans had a team option for this coming season at less than $2 million.  They decided to decline that and extend him instead.  Effectively, the Pelicans decided to Herb Jones is worth around $17 million per season.  I think that's fair as he's an elite role player and a high-character guy.  

I think Josh Green will end up making similar money.  I anticipate $16-18 million per year.  I hope the Mavericks will agree on an extension sooner rather than later.  That would complete an excellent off-season.  I believe Mark Cuban is probably still somewhat embarrassed about the Jalen Brunson failure.  I don't think he'll want to let Josh Green make it to free agency next summer.

(08-21-2023, 10:19 AM)mvossman Wrote: I like Green a lot and think we will continue to develop, but this valuation seems a little high to me.  Right now, I would argue that Williams is a better more versatile defender than Green and they are roughly a wash on offense.  Herb Jones is a significantly better defender, and the difference in shooting is tempered by Green not taking enough shots.  He needs to pull the trigger more for his efficiency to matter.  Herb might be older, but they are both young and Herb has been in the league one less year.  I would argue that Green is closer to Williams and his contract than Jones.

(08-21-2023, 10:27 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I can’t see Green making more than Grant Williams.  There is a trade off….take the long term security vs the risk of betting on yourself in a year or two and making potentially much more….or much less.

Green is a restricted FA next year and we have seen this scares a lot of teams away.  Although wouldn’t it be our luck to see the Lakers get Reaves for the MLE because no one thought they Lakers wouldn’t match and then see teams get into a bidding war for Green. LOL. 

Green has not proven to be a championship level starter yet.  So, does he sign for a 11-13 million that will give him life security while also getting future contracts down the road or hold out and try to make 20 million in two years?  With the note that an injury or a dip in play that he could get a contract much less than that.

I have to believe there is a number that works for both sides.  One where Josh can get that security but also at a number the team could feel good that they hope Green outplays that contract.

(08-21-2023, 03:22 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote:  I think Green is already a better defensive player than Grant Williams.  I realize Grant Williams has succeeded in certain matchups including against Giannis and Embiid.  However, I think he is an average defensive player overall.  Here's some numbers borrowed from an article by a Celtics' writer, "Opponents FG percentage increases 1.6% when guarded by Grant.  He's in the 45th percentage when defending isolations and an embarrassing 2nd percentile when defending post-ups.  The Celtics defense gets about 2 points per possession worse when Grant is on the floor".  

The Mavericks were 2.5 points per 100 possessions when Josh Green was on the floor vs. off.  I concede you have a better understanding of advanced stats than I do but these numbers favor Josh. 

I agree they are equivalent offensively at this time.  Grant has more playmaking potential though.

The fact that Josh Green is 2 years younger than Grant Williams also is a big advantage.  Josh has more time to develop while Grant Williams is less likely to improve.

I would like to see Josh Green extended for the same money that Grant Williams received.  However, I think he deserves more.

(08-21-2023, 04:44 PM)mvossman Wrote: The problem with looking at on/off is that Williams was on a contending team with maybe the deepest defensive roster in the NBA.  Green was on a lottery team with one of the worst defenses in the NBA.  Its really hard to compare them with on/off given the context.  What we do know is that Williams played at a high level in two deep playoff runs while Green disappeared in the one playoff run he was in.  I expect him to be better in the future, but if we are talking about "deserves" I would argue that Williams has shown more so far and to pay them the same would be to some degree banking on Green's potential.

All that being said, I'm all for getting a deal with Green done now and if that means a little more than Williams I could probably live with that.

(08-21-2023, 06:09 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Josh Green is a good player, and I hope the two sides reach a deal that everyone can live with.

But, in no universe is Green’s situation comparable to Brunson’s. Brunson is a STAR player, around whom both the NY Knicks and team USA have chosen to build their teams. The ceiling for what he’ll achieve in his career doesn’t yet appear to have dropped into sight.

Losing Green for nothing would blow, but cannot be compared to the Brunson disaster. Likewise, a successful retention of Green’s services will come nowhere close to making up for losing Brunson for nothing.