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RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs may defy pundits, keep 10 if Whitmore or Hendricks is there - SleepingHero - 06-22-2023
Fischer: “The Hawks continued to be described as one of the more active teams in trade dialogue around the NBA. Hunter, John Collins and All-Star guard Dejounte Murray, in addition to starting center Clint Capela, continue to be mentioned by team personnel as viable trade candidates, with Hunter appearing to be involved in most of the Hawks’ possibilities entering draft night. There remains the chance, sources said, that Dallas could send the No. 10 pick to Atlanta for that No. 15 selection depending on which players are available. The Mavericks, though, could defy expectations and stay at No. 10 if Villanova product Cam Whitmore or UCF forward Taylor Hendricks slips to that selection.”
RE: MAVS NEWS: Stein-Mavs want to change the entire array of centers, won't trade #10? - F Gump - 06-22-2023
(06-22-2023, 10:12 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: Would you trade the 10th+Bertans+Mcgee+RB for Collins+Okungwu+JalenJohnson+46?
Hawks are going to pay Okungwu eventually, but they can reset the clock by picking Lively. They also keep their 15th pick, all the while unloading Collins.
Mavs lose a lottery pick, but gets a former number 6 pick who's ready to contribute. Okongwu likely won't be a star but even if he doesn't improve (he likely will), his current play is still way above any center the Mavs had in recent years.
Now if Black is available at 10. I wouldn't do this.
But Hendricks? I'm on the fence.
Just to simplify --
JalenJohnson+pick 46 are the rewards taken by the Mavs for taking in Collins (advantage Mavs).
The 10th pick is the payment for Okungwu (who wins this is up in the air for at least a year).
I am really inclined to steer clear of Collins in almost any scenario -- the roster-killing contract and meh-ish player he has become has removed all the allure for me.
There is NO scenario in which I send a pick (any pick at all of any kind) to ATL in a trade asking me to choke down Collins for them.
IF the offer by ATL was something like Bertans-McGee-Bullock [and TPE of about 7.5M] for Collins-Johnson-Okongwu-15, I would consider it and look again at his recent play to see exactly how so-so he is. Still not sure I would do it - it's a lot of money to swallow if he lacks potential to be super helpful.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Stein-Mavs want to change the entire array of centers, won't trade #10? - RasheedsBigWhiteSpot - 06-22-2023
(06-22-2023, 01:41 PM)F Gump Wrote: I am really inclined to steer clear of Collins in almost any scenario -- the roster-killing contract and meh-ish player he has become has removed all the allure for me.
There is NO scenario in which I send a pick (any pick at all of any kind) to ATL in a trade asking me to choke down Collins for them.
IF the offer by ATL was something like Bertans-McGee-Bullock [and TPE of about 7.5M] for Collins-Johnson-Okongwu-15, I would consider it and look again at his recent play to see exactly how so-so he is. Still not sure I would do it - it's a lot of money to swallow if he lacks potential to be super helpful.
That's the exact deal I've been mulling. People just don't understand how toxic Collins' contract is under this CBA.
Now if the Mavs can walk tonight with Okongwu, Whitmore/Hendricks/Lively + potentially Wallace/Bufkin/Hawkins + plus whatever Collins might bring in a change-of-scenery move? I'm down.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Stein-Mavs want to change the entire array of centers, won't trade #10? - mvossman - 06-22-2023
(06-22-2023, 01:41 PM)F Gump Wrote: I am really inclined to steer clear of Collins in almost any scenario -- the roster-killing contract and meh-ish player he has become has removed all the allure for me.
There is NO scenario in which I send a pick (any pick at all of any kind) to ATL in a trade asking me to choke down Collins for them.
IF the offer by ATL was something like Bertans-McGee-Bullock [and TPE of about 7.5M] for Collins-Johnson-Okongwu-15, I would consider it and look again at his recent play to see exactly how so-so he is. Still not sure I would do it - it's a lot of money to swallow if he lacks potential to be super helpful.
Okongwu is prolly worth #10 by himself. They are not sending him out in a Collins dump. Collins had one bad year that was likely due to a finger injury. If I thought the finger was healthy I would take him on for salary dump. He is perfect buy low candidate (if that finger heals). I would do #10 plus McGee for Okongwu and I would prolly do the 10 + Bertans for 15 + Capela. The only player that has any chance of being there at 10 that would change my mind is Hendricks.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Stein-Mavs want to change the entire array of centers, won't trade #10? - dirkfansince1998 - 06-22-2023
(06-22-2023, 02:11 PM)mvossman Wrote: Okongwu is prolly worth #10 by himself. They are not sending him out in a Collins dump. Collins had one bad year that was likely due to a finger injury. If I thought the finger was healthy I would take him on for salary dump. He is perfect buy low candidate (if that finger heals). I would do #10 plus McGee for Okongwu and I would prolly do the 10 + Bertans for 15 + Capela. The only player that has any chance of being there at 10 that would change my mind is Hendricks.
Okongwu is the closest thing to Bam you can find in the current NBA. A big with no defensive flaws. Can defend the post and perimeter. Can protect the rim and rebound. Would give up any combination of #10 and whatever salary match/contract the Mavs need to eat to get him.
Wouldn´t touch Capela. Steady decline in the last two seasons. Played off the floor in the playoffs. Cannot switch. Cannot shoot FTs. Cannot close games. If #10 is included (even in a trade down) the return needs to be more than a 25-30mpg big body for the regular season.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Stein-Mavs want to change the entire array of centers, won't trade #10? - RasheedsBigWhiteSpot - 06-22-2023
(06-22-2023, 02:11 PM)mvossman Wrote: Okongwu is prolly worth #10 by himself. They are not sending him out in a Collins dump. Collins had one bad year that was likely due to a finger injury. If I thought the finger was healthy I would take him on for salary dump. He is perfect buy low candidate (if that finger heals). I would do #10 plus McGee for Okongwu and I would prolly do the 10 + Bertans for 15 + Capela. The only player that has any chance of being there at 10 that would change my mind is Hendricks.
How are you not seeing that much better players on equally bad contracts are going for peanuts like 2nds? The Wiz literally got a handful of magic beans for Beal and KP, and Collins is not all that. In fact, neither is Capella. Okongwu is one year away from requiring a 20mil/contract despite only being potential.
Sorry, my guy, but young and cheap is the new CBA market efficiency. I'm not a big Lively fan but I'll take him on a 4yr/22mil deal any day over Okongwu, a rapidly aging Capella or anything to do with Collins.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Stein-Mavs want to change the entire array of centers, won't trade #10? - cow - 06-22-2023
(06-22-2023, 02:29 PM)RasheedsBigWhiteSpot Wrote: How are you not seeing that much better players on equally bad contracts are going for peanuts like 2nds? The Wiz literally got a handful of magic beans for Beal and KP, and Collins is not all that. In fact, neither is Capella. Okongwu is one year away from requiring a 20mil/contract despite only being potential.
Sorry, my guy, but young and cheap is the new CBA market efficiency. I'm not a big Lively fan but I'll take him on a 4yr/22mil deal any day over Okongwu, a rapidly aging Capella or anything to do with Collins.
Agree with you but Beal shouldn't be part of the conversation as his no-trade clause sapped a ton of value the Wizards could have gotten for him.
RE: Collins, I guess it depends what you consider buy low. I tend to toss out players that have gotten paid big second contracts from that definition. See: Ayton, Collins.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Stein-Mavs want to change the entire array of centers, won't trade #10? - KillerLeft - 06-22-2023
(06-22-2023, 07:54 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Am I the only one that doesn't really care all that much for Grant Williams and think it's a waste of time for the Mavs to try and come up convoluted methods to acquire him?
I actually like the player and like his fit here even more, but I have a hard time looking at the Mavs' asset pool and envisioning a sign-and-trade that wouldn't be a huge overpay. At least one that would be at all advantageous to the Celtics.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Stein-Mavs want to change the entire array of centers, won't trade #10? - cow - 06-22-2023
(06-22-2023, 03:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I actually like the player and like his fit here even more, but I have a hard time looking at the Mavs' asset pool and envisioning a sign-and-trade that wouldn't be a huge overpay. At least one that would be at all advantageous to the Celtics.
Bullock? How much do we think Grant will earn?
RE: MAVS NEWS: Stein-Mavs want to change the entire array of centers, won't trade #10? - Dirknows - 06-22-2023
(06-22-2023, 01:41 PM)F Gump Wrote: I am really inclined to steer clear of Collins in almost any scenario -- the roster-killing contract and meh-ish player he has become has removed all the allure for me.
There is NO scenario in which I send a pick (any pick at all of any kind) to ATL in a trade asking me to choke down Collins for them.
IF the offer by ATL was something like Bertans-McGee-Bullock [and TPE of about 7.5M] for Collins-Johnson-Okongwu-15, I would consider it and look again at his recent play to see exactly how so-so he is. Still not sure I would do it - it's a lot of money to swallow if he lacks potential to be super helpful.
You're just not getting Okongwu without giving up a pick.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs may defy pundits, keep 10 if Whitmore or Hendricks is there - Jakeospikez - 06-22-2023
I'd have no issue with a buy low on Collins if they believed in the post-ASB shooting and the medical team gave them the ok on the finger. Also would need to have a surefire plan on getting a complimentary big to start with him so there's a lot of ifs. He's still mostly the same player everywhere else. Still the same from 2, still blocks over 1 shot/g from a PF which is actually pretty rare, slight decline in boards. People just say random stuff based on reputation and all that but he's not a bad defender. If he returns to form he's worth around Aaron Gordon money, so he's only slightly overpaid if he recovers. Wouldn't want to trade back from 10 to 15 for him but if they can work out some multi team deal or do a trade back to like 12/13 and pick up other assets then do stuff with ATL it may work out. I definitely don't quite understand someone that says they're fine S&Ting an asset for Grant Williams at 16m+/y and complain about Collins being an albatross though.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Stein-Mavs want to change the entire array of centers, won't trade #10? - mvossman - 06-22-2023
(06-22-2023, 02:29 PM)RasheedsBigWhiteSpot Wrote: How are you not seeing that much better players on equally bad contracts are going for peanuts like 2nds? The Wiz literally got a handful of magic beans for Beal and KP, and Collins is not all that. In fact, neither is Capella. Okongwu is one year away from requiring a 20mil/contract despite only being potential.
Sorry, my guy, but young and cheap is the new CBA market efficiency. I'm not a big Lively fan but I'll take him on a 4yr/22mil deal any day over Okongwu, a rapidly aging Capella or anything to do with Collins.
You and I clearly have a different valuation on Okongwu.
Beal hasn't played at a star level in years, has a massive contract which includes a player option for 57 mil in his year 33 season, and he had a NTC.
KP is a massive injury risk and needed a fully healthy season just to get his value above water.
Those are both unique cases. Its crazy how the pendulum swings. Gobert goes for 5 picks and we don't have the assets to get anybody. Then its the new CBA and we can get anyone for peanuts.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs may defy pundits, keep 10 if Whitmore or Hendricks is there - Mavs2021 - 06-22-2023
(06-22-2023, 03:08 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: I'd have no issue with a buy low on Collins if they believed in the post-ASB shooting and the medical team gave them the ok on the finger.
Was about to post something similar. This is basically a buy-low situation like Markkanen or Randle. Three years ago Collins was a 20/10 PF with at least average defense and his contract is "only" $25M year.Still just 25 years old. If you can get Collins + #15 for Bullock + THJ, I think you have to do that.
I heard if he opted for surgery, he´d back for the start of the regular season. It´s only a question whether the surgery can actually bring any improvement to the finger. That´s the real problem.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs may defy pundits, keep 10 if Whitmore or Hendricks is there - Kidnova - 06-22-2023
Quote:Sources say the Dallas Mavericks, who own the No. 10 pick in Thursday’s NBA Draft and have sharpshooter Tim Hardaway Jr. -- a player the Cavs discussed at the February trade deadline -- were one team that recently reached out about Allen’s availability. While it’s unclear what was offered, the Mavericks have been seeking a pick-and-roll partner for guards Luka Doncic and Kyrie Irving.
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2023/06/cavs-receiving-trade-offers-for-jarrett-allen-sources-say.html
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs may defy pundits, keep 10 if Whitmore or Hendricks is there - MarkAguirreWrathofGod - 06-22-2023
Black and Ausar gone which is good. Don’t want non-shooters
RE: MAVS NEWS: Stein-Mavs want to change the entire array of centers, won't trade #10? - F Gump - 06-22-2023
(06-22-2023, 03:06 PM)Dirknows Wrote: You're just not getting Okongwu without giving up a pick.
Perhaps. But I don't think you can get rid of Collins without offering at least 1 pick, and maybe 2. In my "what if," Okongwu is the equivalent of 1 of those picks.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs may defy pundits, keep 10 if Whitmore or Hendricks is there - SleepingHero - 06-22-2023
Richaun Holmes has a trade bonus worth $1.8M that will adjust his 2023-24 salary to $13.9M.
Dallas will have $3.1M remaining from their newly created trade exception.
Mavericks $52M below the tax with 10 players. Plenty of room to re-sign Kyrie Irving and use the $12.4M MLE.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs may defy pundits, keep 10 if Whitmore or Hendricks is there - F Gump - 06-22-2023
(06-22-2023, 10:11 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Richaun Holmes has a trade bonus worth $1.8M that will adjust his 2023-24 salary to $13.9M.
Dallas will have $3.1M remaining from their newly created trade exception.
Mavericks $52M below the tax with 10 players. Plenty of room to re-sign Kyrie Irving and use the $12.4M MLE.
IF all of the following happen ...
1 Sign Kyrie for Luka money (~40M)\
2 Have a 14-man roster (NBA minimum) rather than 15
3 The tax lands a sliver higher (50K or so) than currently projected 165M
THEN Mavs will be able to use full MLE (12.4M) and full BAE (4.5M) too (probably more useful than using a 3.1M TPE).
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs may defy pundits, keep 10 if Whitmore or Hendricks is there - SleepingHero - 06-22-2023
(06-22-2023, 10:50 PM)F Gump Wrote: IF all of the following happen ...
1 Sign Kyrie for Luka money (~40M)\
2 Have a 14-man roster (NBA minimum) rather than 15
3 The tax lands a sliver higher (50K or so) than currently projected 165M
THEN Mavs will be able to use full MLE (12.4M) and full BAE (4.5M) too (probably more useful than using a 3.1M TPE).
I wonder if the Mavs compensate Kyrie with more years that are guaranteed if he accepts a slightly lower yearly average.
5yrs/210 should start him right at ~37 mil.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs may defy pundits, keep 10 if Whitmore or Hendricks is there - F Gump - 06-22-2023
(06-22-2023, 10:53 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I wonder if the Mavs compensate Kyrie with more years that are guaranteed if he accepts a slightly lower yearly average.
5yrs/210 should start him right at ~37 mil.
My own thinking is
1 Anything is negotiable
2 I like the "same as Luka" offer (both amount, and length) because it has a reason to it, that he might embrace
3 You are committing to him, so let him commit to you too, as one of your 2 big-salary guys
4 I don't like a random number or scheme with the premise "let's wrestle and scheme for the best way to beat down the other side in this agreement" because then his goal is "the biggest number" (max) rather than the best team possible
5 Does 37 allow anything that 40 doesn't? Or does it just pad Cuban's wallet instead of Kyrie's?